Changing how Speed works

[mallet]

One problem I've had with the SPD and players taking actions/turns is that for the most part all PC's and NPC's have the same or almost the same SPD score. I almost always play/GM non-superhero level games (but most still have powers or magic of some sort, just lower level stuff then full on Superhero games) so SPD scores are almost always at 3 (sometimes 4). This can lead to some generic, uninspiring combat and ends up not taking full advantage of some of the options, maneuvers, etc... That can happen when there is a good spread of SPD scores in the combat.

 

So I have been thinking of a way to mix things up a little and I was hoping to get some feedback from the boards before starting to implement it.

 

The Idea is that everyone starts off with the same base SPD score. Let's say 2. Then at the beginning of every turn of combat each character can "buy" 1 point of speed for say 10 END (I still haven't decided what the actual END cost will be. Maybe be 8? 6?) that last for that turn only.

 

So, characters can get more actions in a turn, but have less END to use on powers, etc...

 

This will keep combat interesting since you might never know how many actions a character will take on any given turn. It helps simulate "bursts of speed" for one turn, as well as characters slowing down the longer combat takes (REC won't cover all of the spent END a turn) so eventually characters will have to slow down back to the standard SPD of 2, at least until they get some END saved back up.

 

I'm still fooling around with the details, but what do you guys think of the concept?

[Sean Waters]

Re: Changing how Speed works

 

Me likey, but you might have to police the purchase of massive quantities of END at huge 6e discounts.

[Duke Bushido]

Re: Changing how Speed works

 

I can offer one thought; I'm in a similar boat: almost everything I run is Heroic as opposed to Supers.

 

We addressed it by changing the scaling on the SPD chart and the cost of SPD itself. instead of 1/12 of a second, a Phase is 1/6 second (and a Turn is now 24 seconds), and SPD costs 3pts for Heroic games.

 

In the long run-- figuring out extended travel distances and such for rocket packs or jeeps, it's not a perfect translation, buy simply moving decimals over got really nasty.

 

In combat, it really doesn't make enough of a difference to be problematic for us, and out of combat, we default vehicles and the like to be based on "normal" SPD for the purposes of figuring "how fast does it go" or "how many hours does it take to get there?" type stuff.

 

Works well for us.

 

I'll also offer this:

 

we tried changing the formula a bit, and the pricing of Dex, etc---

 

that got out of hand fast. Cheap and nasty.

 

The way we do it now avoids DEX inflation and still gives a reasonable mix of SPD to make things interesting, make held actions viable, etc.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Changing how Speed works

 

I've had success in the past with adding variety to combat by randomizing the Phases on which a character can act, when my group preferred more unpredictable combat. The method I employed was suggested by Steve Perrin in his "GM's Discretion" column back in Adventurers Club #21. Each player rolls a D12 every Segment, and if the player rolls his SPD or less, he gets an action Phase that Segment. Although DEX still governs the order of action, the order of Phases would be unpredictable, which reduces some of the meta-gaming "I'll declare a Haymaker on my Phase 6 because my opponent can't move again until Segment 8" that some people find annoying. And the character's SPD stat is still applicable to how often he gets to act.

 

Because the vagaries of the dice could mean that a given character might never roll well enough to get an action, Steve Perrin also suggested that for each die roll that a character misses, he adds 1 to his target number next roll, cumulatively, until he succeeds, when the roll resets to his raw SPD again.

[StGrimblefig]

Re: Changing how Speed works

 

My first thought would be to adapt the Pushing rules to SPD.

 

Doing something like this should tire a character out faster, so the increased END use is appropriate. For Heroic campaigns, I would also suggest a CON roll to avoid 1 pip of BODY damage from the strain.

 

If you are not using END in your campaign, then definitely look at the Toolkitting options (6E2 134) for alternate ways to pay for the Pushing.

[archermoo]

Re: Changing how Speed works

 

My personal opinion is that if your players all buy a 3 or sometimes a 4 SPD they simply haven't been shown what an advantage a higher SPD could give them. Throw a couple of bad guys with 5 SPDs at them. I'm guessing that'll change their minds.

[StGrimblefig]

Re: Changing how Speed works

 

There is also this post which talks about allowing SPD as a Power (In your case, perhaps it could be a Talent), limited to a specific kind of situations. The rest of that thread has some good discussion, too.

 

Thus, a martial arts specialist can have a normal SPD when walking down the street, but when using his martial art in a fight, he is crazy fast (+2 SPD Only when using X martial art in combat). How much of a limitation that is, depends on your campaign.

[etherio]

Re: Changing how Speed works

 

...Each player rolls a D12 every Segment' date=' and if the player rolls his SPD or less, he gets an action Phase that Segment...[/quote']

 

Our group used this system for years, but somtimes were frustrated by the following...

 

...Because the vagaries of the dice could mean that a given character might never roll well enough to get an action' date=' Steve Perrin also suggested that for each die roll that a character misses, he adds 1 to his target number next roll, cumulatively, until he succeeds, when the roll resets to his raw SPD again.[/quote']

 

Rather than mess with the probabilities by using your fix, though, we just switched to playing cards.

 

We each have a set of cards from Ace to Queen, for a total of twelve cards. Each segment, everyone flips a card. If your card is equal to...or less than...your SPD, then you get a phase. After everyone's "deck" is exhausted, take Post-12 recoveries and reshuffle. Simple and easy, and it reduces the bad-luck effect where one player gets screwed for too long.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Changing how Speed works

 

Rather than mess with the probabilities by using your fix, though, we just switched to playing cards.

 

We each have a set of cards from Ace to Queen, for a total of twelve cards. Each segment, everyone flips a card. If your card is equal to...or less than...your SPD, then you get a phase. After everyone's "deck" is exhausted, take Post-12 recoveries and reshuffle. Simple and easy, and it reduces the bad-luck effect where one player gets screwed for too long.

 

I've seen a similar fix suggested where one deck is used (52 cards) with A - Q meaning the phase number, and K meaning PS 12 recovery occurs. This makes planning around a PS 12 less prevelant since you don't known when it will occur.

 

Adding the K to the A-Q pool would get the same result with timing varying by character (not everyone gets their second wind at once).

 

Etherio, how does this work for NPC's? It seems like the GM would need a lot of cards to manage a team of NPC's.

[tiger]

Re: Changing how Speed works

 

I've also seen house rules where they threw out the phase concept and have everyone acting at the same time base on highest speeds first. Ties decided by dex. This was only used in fantasy Hero type genres however. Never tried it myself.

 

I have tried rolling a d12 to see what phase the combat started in however. Was a unique change of pace, but not something I'd use all the time. I have been using a d12 to as a phase counter, works well.

[etherio]

Re: Changing how Speed works

 

I've seen a similar fix suggested where one deck is used (52 cards) with A - Q meaning the phase number' date=' and K meaning PS 12 recovery occurs. This makes planning around a PS 12 less prevelant since you don't known when it will occur...[/quote']

 

We have tested a few variants and found that we like best for each player to have his own deck of only 12 cards. Running everyone on the same deck does introduce a bit of randomness, which I personally like, but it amounts to shuffling the segments in a Turn. Players with the same SPD scores still always act on the same segments. I feel that shuffling things independently results in more variation in strategies and in interactions between characters.

 

 

...Adding the K to the A-Q pool would get the same result with timing varying by character (not everyone gets their second wind at once)...

 

We tried this at first (at my suggestion), but we all agreed that including the king as a Post-12 Rec didn't work well for us because it was TOO random. an early recovery for a character could mean a serious disadvantage that was frustratingly random.

 

...Etherio' date=' how does this work for NPC's? It seems like the GM would need a lot of cards to manage a team of NPC's.[/quote']

 

That is a drawback, but that inconvenience is at least partially mitigated by not having to prepare a combat chart ahead of time.

[Cancer]

Re: Changing how Speed works

 

Lots of discussion about this and related ideas has happened in this old thread.