Blocking and relative strengths

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Blocking and relative strengths

 

Chiming in as another experienced fighter here, I endorse & support what the others have said.

 

That being said, there is some merit in the idea, and the most obvious route by which I'd incorporate it if I were inclined to do so would be as a -1 point Restrictive Element on the Block build, so it only applies to blocks built to be "power stops"

[Panpiper]

Re: Blocking and relative strengths

 

That being said, there is some merit in the idea, and the most obvious route by which I'd incorporate it if I were inclined to do so would be as a -1 point Restrictive Element on the Block build, so it only applies to blocks built to be "power stops"

That Sir, is a good idea.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Blocking and relative strengths

 

In the world of comic book physics, of course. In the terms of something slightly more realistic, the block's special effect would involve redirecting the target instead of the punch.

 

 

Remember, that they also added the rule for throwing so a "normal" person cannot throw 700 ton mecha around! I understand about realism in this game, and i wasn't trying to make it a more realistic than the rules already allow. But I forgot to mention though that if you to use what I suggested, then each extra DC of a martial art would allow +5 str in the max str to block without damage. Just for the super mystical types. But I also like the -1 ocv per 5 str.

[Old Man]

Re: Blocking and relative strengths

 

I had no idea that the -1 OCV "parry" house rule was so prevalent. That's what we always used.

 

In real combat, of course, one rarely sees pure blocks or pure dodges; the former are too risky/painful and the latter are too hard. Most defensive moves are combination parry/dodges. But I was too lazy to attempt to create a full-spectrum replacement for block, dodge, and dive for cover, so we just used the -1 thing. Even so, parrying is real easy with a large shield.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Blocking and relative strengths

 

On the other hand, in a sword and sorcery setting, if you see it as more of a "maces bashing against shields" thing where the big burly Black Knight can

smash his way past the feeble guard of Percy the Squire, then have at it. That is why Hero is made to be flexible, so you can end up with the game you want.

(/SIZE]

 

Well you can argue that the shield absorbs the blow which is why the block works. But as I type this I remember the shield maiden in the Lord of the Rings, who blocks Nazgul a gets her arm shattered by blocking. So even though this doesn't happen alot in literature, it does happen

 

Another point, Steve Long has mentioned that you should rule with martial attackes with a "normal" then no matter what the dice say, it shouldn't break certain things like jail walls. So limiting block by strength, I don't think isn't a stretch.

 

Lastly, one problem if you use a "block" similar to a "dodge", you can avoid damage shields or triggers on "block". I did allow once the use of block this way, and the majority of the group felt the person using the block this way was being cheesy. Yes, I know its allowed, but its something I think Mr. Long is wrong about.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Blocking and relative strengths

 

Lastly, one problem if you use a "block" similar to a "dodge", you can avoid damage shields or triggers on "block". I did allow once the use of block this way, and the majority of the group felt the person using the block this way was being cheesy. Yes, I know its allowed, but its something I think Mr. Long is wrong about.

 

So when you use Block to duck under the punch positioning yourself to strike first next phase, your shoulder/forearm/whatever, brushes their torso/arm/leg/whatever, and the Damage Shield still applies.

[mallet]

Re: Blocking and relative strengths

 

An other idea might be to use the Unarmed vs. Weapon Blocking rules from Fantasy Hero 5th edition.

 

With those rules Unarmed characters get -2 OCV to their Block check when attempting to Block a weapon attack. This represents how hard it is to block a weapon bare handed while avoiding taking any damage from the weapon. Basically the types of Blocks people have been talking about in this thread.

 

You could adapt this to this situation by saying that if the Attacker in the hand to hand fight has +10 STR (or +15, +20, or whatever level you think best) more then the defender then the defender has -2 OCV to Block the attack and avoid damage.

 

Probably best to adapt this similar rule, rather then create a new one.

[Old Man]

Re: Blocking and relative strengths

 

An other idea might be to use the Unarmed vs. Weapon Blocking rules from Fantasy Hero 5th edition.

 

With those rules Unarmed characters get -2 OCV to their Block check when attempting to Block a weapon attack. This represents how hard it is to block a weapon bare handed while avoiding taking any damage from the weapon. Basically the types of Blocks people have been talking about in this thread.

 

To add more complexity, I can see this being heavily dependent on the weapon being blocked. A sword is hard to block barehanded; a baseball bat less so. It also matters if the sword is being swung or thrust.

 

Anyway as I said earlier the whole block/parry/dodge/damage shield/dive for cover issue quickly develops into a rabbit hole leading to a Wonderland of complexity and rules debate, which is why we mostly played the game as written.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Blocking and relative strengths

 

So when you use Block to duck under the punch positioning yourself to strike first next phase' date=' your shoulder/forearm/whatever, brushes their torso/arm/leg/whatever, and the Damage Shield still applies.[/quote']

 

except duron the game in question, my friend was doing the "block" as a "dodge" to avoid contact and not trigger any damage shields.

[Lucius]

Re: Blocking and relative strengths

 

I'm starting a new game soon that's a combination of Arthurian legend and Anime rules (yes, scary isn't it?). I have plans to modify blocking to have it work up only up to the strength of the blockee, +10 Str. So if a Str 20 person blocks, they can block up to 6d6 attack without problems.

 

Has this been mentioned before? The main reason I'm adding it is to encourage players to use some of their powers or maneuvers more defensively.

 

In what way is taking a defensive manuever and making it LESS effective going to "encourage players to use some of their powers or maneuvers more defensively?"

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Tries hobbling a palindromedary to see if that encourages it to run

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Blocking and relative strengths

 

except duron the game in question' date=' my friend was doing the "block" as a "dodge" to [i']avoid[/i] contact and not trigger any damage shields.

So, you as GM let it slide. Or you as GM don't let him get away with it, and declare that he avoids the actual attack, but is unable to avoid making some contact. It's your choice. That doesn't illegitimatize the SFX for that specific Mechanic. It just means you have to decide how you will handle it in your games and do so consistently

[Old Man]

Re: Blocking and relative strengths

 

In what way is taking a defensive manuever and making it LESS effetive going to "encourage players to use some of their powers or maneuvers more defensively?"

 

I find it odd that the players need the encouragement, frankly. IME Fantasy Hero combat favors wolfpacking and conservative use of levels and maneuvers, if not outright stalling.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Blocking and relative strengths

 

It just means you have to decide how you will handle it in your games and do so consistently

And I have. A "block" is a "block" and a "dodge" is a "dodge" and a "ford" is a "ford". Oh, could someone be kind enough to point out where you could use a block the way use mentioned? As I said, I know you can use it that way, but never seen where you could. And truthfully, if the manuevers were rewritten as Hyperman suggested, then I wouldn't be so adamant in my position.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Blocking and relative strengths

 

There's been numerous examples on how the Block manuever can be used that way in every thread to ever discuss it. I don't feel like making up 5 more examples when you can easily look them up.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Blocking and relative strengths

 

There's been numerous examples on how the Block manuever can be used that way in every thread to ever discuss it. I don't feel like making up 5 more examples when you can easily look them up.

 

Let me clarify, I was refering to a published example (as in written in a book.), my bad. Also, i'm glad that you didn't come up with 5 examples, cause I have a feeling that that would have been a waste of your time.

 

Also let me make it very clear, if you feel that the what special efffect for a block is legitamite for you, such as the brick trick of standing there and take it, or Jeet Kune Do's eye jab, or block like a dodge, then that's absolutely fine. And I would argue against anyone suggesting otherwise. I may disagree with it, but if its cool in your game then fine. In fact if I was playing in a game and the GM allowed it, I wouldn't leave the game in a pity party, I'd play along just fine. But, conversely, I (and my group) hold the right to choose what we consider what is apropriate and legitamite for our games. And looking through the posts, I hope I made it clear that using the block like a dodge special efect-and the reason why we don't use it was my opinion only, and only for the people that I game with.

[saiyanslayer]

Re: Blocking and relative strengths

 

After reading the great posts here, I've come up with a solution:

 

Advantage: 'Hard' Attack +1/2 If an opponent successfully blocks this attack, they take half damage unless their str provides at least 1/2 the DC in the attack. Dexterous characters can use Dex in place of Str. End must be spent for blocking.

 

I would also rule that blocking comes into contact with someone, where a dodge is total avoidance.

 

This allows myself to have opponents that will challenge characters who are build to block, and keeps the rules more in the spirit of the game. Thank you again for the awesome info.

[Alibear]

Re: Blocking and relative strengths

 

Not gonna read the whole thread but Panpiper is spot on. You block by moving your feet not throwing your arm in the way.

[Alibear]

Re: Blocking and relative strengths

 

An other idea might be to use the Unarmed vs. Weapon Blocking rules from Fantasy Hero 5th edition.

 

With those rules Unarmed characters get -2 OCV to their Block check when attempting to Block a weapon attack. This represents how hard it is to block a weapon bare handed while avoiding taking any damage from the weapon. Basically the types of Blocks people have been talking about in this thread.

 

We already have rules for weapon lengths.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Blocking and relative strengths

 

I'm starting a new game soon that's a combination of Arthurian legend and Anime rules (yes' date=' scary isn't it?).[/quote']

 

I think I just creamed my jeans.

 

I have plans to modify blocking to have it work up only up to the strength of the blockee, +10 Str. So if a Str 20 person blocks, they can block up to 6d6 attack without problems.

 

Has this been mentioned before? The main reason I'm adding it is to encourage players to use some of their powers or maneuvers more defensively.

 

An interesting concept. I see this a lot in action films especially Wuxia and some Anime. A character blocks a sword strike, but the incomming attack is so strong it pushes the blockers weapon down to bury the tip of the attacking weapon in the defender's shoulder....

 

My suggestion (and I think a very fair way) of doing this would be to apply Damage Class vs Damage Class. If the blocker can generate 6 DC's with his attack and his opponent genereates 8 DC's, on a successful block subtract the blocker's DC from the attackers DC. If the remaining DC is a positive number, thats how much damage is done to the blocker. In the case of 6 blocking 8, 2 DC's or 1/2D6K damage will be done to the defender.

 

A variation on this would allow the defender to add +1 to the DC they can block for every 2 points the block roll was made by. Blocks would now cost 1 End plus the STR used to block the attack. Its tiring to block attacks from strong opponents. Martial Blocks could add to the Damage Class a character can block (my suggestion would be +2 to DC) and in the case of DC adding, the OCV bonus of Martial Block makes it even more efficient. Sheilds should be able to safely deflect a number of DC based on their size (Buckler=3, Small shield=5, Medium shield=7, Large shield=9) and any damage that bypasses the sheild defense is applied to the arm holding the shield (or this can be ignored if the Shield Damage rules are being used)

 

I like the suggestion of applying -1 to the block roll for every 5pts the attacker's STR exceeds the blockers. Nice and elegant. Makes it difficult but not impossible and Block still completely avoids damage if successful.