Agent X Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 Has anybody run a battle between the Champions and the Crowns of Krim? I'd like to know what happened in the battle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 My players have their own characters, so I won't be running the Champions against the Crowns of Krim anytime soon. Still, it would be an interesting if slightly onesided match up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 Considering the Champions would probably have trouble with Dark Seraph alone, I think a battle against all the Crowns would be an obvious slaughter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 As the two teams are written, I'm afraid it wouldn't be much of a fight. There are six Crowns to five Champions, and the least of the Crowns would probably be a match for the toughest Champion, while Dark Seraph is a near-epic opponent by himself. The Crowns of Krim don't seem to be that big on team tactics, but they do all obey Dark Seraph without question If the Champs could call on the Millennium City 8, it might be an even match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 Originally posted by Lord Liaden If the Champs could call on the Millennium City 8, it might be an even match. *G* And given some of the Hunteds the MC8 have, it might make more sense as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 If the GM allowed Witchcraft to "sanctify" the ground where the combat was to take place via change environment and create some holy objects maybe... Even that would only be 2d6 per turn per crown for the ground plus the impact from the objects, and it would require accepting Witchcraft as a religious Wiccan or the equivelant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 Witchcraft -IMO Originally posted by OddHat ...it would require accepting Witchcraft as a religious Wiccan or the equivelant. I don't think she'd fit the bill. Witchcraft is too uncertain of her origin and her 'purity' to really qualify. She believes her heritage taints her, and while she seems to find magic fascinating; she also grew up around its darkest sides. She's got a lot of issues to work out before progressing there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 Re: Witchcraft -IMO Originally posted by Hermit I don't think she'd fit the bill. Witchcraft is too uncertain of her origin and her 'purity' to really qualify. She believes her heritage taints her, and while she seems to find magic fascinating; she also grew up around its darkest sides. She's got a lot of issues to work out before progressing there. I can certainly see that point of view. You'd have to interpret the character as taking comfort from the idea of being a white witch, and as enough of a believer to get the rituals to work. GMs call. As a side note, I think there's a serious problem with allowing payers or NPCs to take Susceptible to X limits in a campaign where X doesn't exist. I see a lot of "susceptible to holy items" characters running around in the Hero universe. Outside of Fantasy Hero I can't recall any published characters that could exploit that weakness. So, in my home campaigns, I allow players of characters who have the appropriate psych limits to use "holy" objects where appropriate, and I allow magic based characters with the appropriate psych limits to sanctify ground and objects in accordance with the theology subscribed to by the character. House rule only, and I wouldn't push it on others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 *chuckles* I had one character who's made great use of leading villains of infernal nature to Churchs and other holy places. Since there are few heroes with 'holy' powers, I'm quite lenient in deciding that "Yes, almost any old church should do." For Champions characters themselves, if they've been played as being particularly devout, one could allow them an 'Ego roll' to summon the faith needed to hurt the foe. That too would have to be a GM call though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted September 18, 2003 Report Share Posted September 18, 2003 So far in my campaigns a character with psych limits appropriate to his or her faith has always been able to use "holy" items if he or she can get them. I've allowed magic using characters to actually build such items in the past, especially if they had KS or SS: Theology. That said, I really like the Faith skill from Fantasy Hero, and I've been thinking over a few designs for a champions class character with powers that require a Faith roll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted September 18, 2003 Report Share Posted September 18, 2003 There are a couple of other possibilities on the "holy attacks" front (sounds kind of weird putting it that way). One is to include any hero or artifact that draws its power from a deity of essentially benigh nature from any faith or mythology. Comic book universes are full of those. Another is to adopt the common fictional assumption that the power of holy symbols, artifacts and the like come not from their innate nature, but from the sincere faith that a person has in them. Ergo an atheist brandishing a cross at a vampire won't even slow him down. Just to take a couple of recent examples from the Millennium City 8 in Digital Hero #13, Megaera as a champion of Athena might qualify as wielding "holy power" under the first condition, while Steadfast could be covered by either or both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted September 18, 2003 Report Share Posted September 18, 2003 Originally posted by Lord Liaden Just to take a couple of recent examples from the Millennium City 8 in Digital Hero #13, Megaera as a champion of Athena might qualify as wielding "holy power" under the first condition, while Steadfast could be covered by either or both. I'd definitely count Megaera as wielding "holy power" in my campaign, though I'd require her to use Theology or Ritual skills to sanctify ground or objects. Steadfast certainly counts as someone who could face off against "unholly" opponents with cross in hand; on the other hand, his origin story leaves the question of where his power come from a bit more open than Megaera's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriot Posted September 18, 2003 Report Share Posted September 18, 2003 Christ , what a battle Occulon and Foxbat could beat The Champions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted September 18, 2003 Report Share Posted September 18, 2003 Re: Witchcraft -IMO Originally posted by OddHat As a side note, I think there's a serious problem with allowing payers or NPCs to take Susceptible to X limits in a campaign where X doesn't exist. I see a lot of "susceptible to holy items" characters running around in the Hero universe. Outside of Fantasy Hero I can't recall any published characters that could exploit that weakness. Ever seen Dogma? Holy objects can be found if a character looks. This was discussed in an old Adventurer's Club, the example as I recall was a PC that took the psych crock "fear of snow geese" when the campagine was set in El Paso. Several examples of how to work in snow geese were given, then summed up something like if the player says snow geese are common around the Rio Grande, it's up to the GM to supply them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Arrow Posted September 18, 2003 Report Share Posted September 18, 2003 Well, Lord Liaden and OddHat beat me to the punch about the MC8. Megaera isn't a priestess and isn't likely to become one, in my view, but this discussion made me wonder about whether areas such as Stonehenge could be classed as holy areas. I am not saying they would still be considered sanctified in real life, but in comic book terms, maybe they are. The villain might be on the lookout for churches, but not sites dedicated to other faiths. The evil of the Crowns of Krim pre-dates Christianity, I believe. I also wondered if certain types of evil might only be weakened in the presence of the directly opposing faith. You know, like the Jewish vampire from "The Fearless Vampire Hunters" not being afraid of a crucifix. Again, I think that, save where necessary for drama, I'd go with comic-book sensibilities and ignore the precise type of "good". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BNakagawa Posted September 18, 2003 Report Share Posted September 18, 2003 In a straight up fight, the real question is - can the Champions survive long enough to get to see a post phase 12 recovery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomd1969 Posted September 18, 2003 Report Share Posted September 18, 2003 Uh-oh!! You guys are scaring me... The PCs in my campaign are heading head-long into a fight with the Crowns, mostly because they believe that the Crowns are after the MacGuffin of the Week . Would super-soakers filled with holy water do the trick? EDIT: Fixed typo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted September 18, 2003 Report Share Posted September 18, 2003 Re: Uh-oh!! Originally posted by tomd1969 You guys are scaring me... The PCs in my campaign are heading head-long into a fight with the Crowns, mostly because they believe that the Crowns are after the MacGuffin of the Week . Would super-soakers filled with holy water do the trick? Helpful, but not decisive. Even if you as GM allow the Crowns of Krim to continue to take damage from holy water lingering on their bodies (beyond just the initial contact), that's still only 2d6 STUN and BODY damage per Turn on each of the Crowns. A group of Standard level heroes probably wouldn't last two turns against all the Crowns together. If the PCs can trick the Crowns onto some type of consecrated ground and weaken them a little before combat starts, they might have a better chance. Barring that, perhaps you could have some of the Crowns performing another task at the time of the confrontation, so that fewer of them will be alongside Dark Seraph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted September 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2003 We figured the Champions could take the Crowns of Krim if they had a powerful supermage with a 100 pt. vpp backing them up and total surprise so they could all haymaker their attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted September 18, 2003 Report Share Posted September 18, 2003 Well, maybe if Dark Sereph wasn't involved and had sent the Crowns to do the job without him. Add Kinetik to the Champions line up for this one... and... nope, it would still be lopsided, but at least they'd have a better chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted September 18, 2003 Report Share Posted September 18, 2003 Actually, with Kinetic to even the numbers, decent teamwork, and without Dark Seraph around to call the shotsfor the other Crowns... the Champions just might pull it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted September 18, 2003 Report Share Posted September 18, 2003 Originally posted by Agent X We figured the Champions could take the Crowns of Krim if they had a powerful supermage with a 100 pt. vpp backing them up and total surprise so they could all haymaker their attacks. Oh well, sure, that'd help a lot. Got one'a them mages in your back pocket there, X? Maybe they could just invite Takofanes for tea: "Say, Tak, as long as you're here, we have this little problem you might be able to help us with..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted September 19, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2003 Originally posted by Lord Liaden Oh well, sure, that'd help a lot. Got one'a them mages in your back pocket there, X? Maybe they could just invite Takofanes for tea: "Say, Tak, as long as you're here, we have this little problem you might be able to help us with..." You know, I'm a little confused. Why are the Champions hunting the Crowns of Krim? Are they suicidal or are they just trying to find them so they can ask someone else to deal with them? Are the Champions really supposed to be the premiere Super-Team? If not, why are they mentioned so often in the 5th Ed. Champions Universe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted September 19, 2003 Report Share Posted September 19, 2003 Originally posted by Agent X You know, I'm a little confused. Why are the Champions hunting the Crowns of Krim? Are they suicidal or are they just trying to find them so they can ask someone else to deal with them? Are the Champions really supposed to be the premiere Super-Team? If not, why are they mentioned so often in the 5th Ed. Champions Universe? That's certainly a reasonable question. As far as I can tell from reading Champions Universe, the premiere hero team on Champs-Earth is the Sentinels, whom Darren Watts has begun detailing in Digital Hero. The Champions are fairly prominent and respected, but not in the same class as the Sentinels, who are more meant to be the Justice League or Avengers of this world. What the Champions are are the example team, meant to illustrate various character archetypes. They're probably referenced all the time because that's what they're there for. As for the Champs Hunting the Crowns of Krim, each of the Crowns has them as an individual Hunted, the whole team vs. one Crown, with the power of the Hunter rated on that basis: "More Powerful" for most of the Crowns, "As Powerful" for Dark Seraph (which tells you something right there). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted September 19, 2003 Report Share Posted September 19, 2003 Originally posted by Agent X You know, I'm a little confused. Why are the Champions hunting the Crowns of Krim? Are they suicidal or are they just trying to find them so they can ask someone else to deal with them? Are the Champions really supposed to be the premiere Super-Team? If not, why are they mentioned so often in the 5th Ed. Champions Universe? You underestimate the value of the Protected By The Plot Perk each of the Champions receives. "Ha! Defeating those fools was easy! Bloodstone, kill them!" "Yes Dark...wait. For some reason I feel the urge to put them all into an easily escapeable death trap." "What!? Dont't be...Yes. Yes, that's right. A deathtrap." "Should I explain all of our plans to them before I leave them unguarded master?" "Yes, yes of course. Make sure you leave all of their gadgets and weapons nearby. Store their foci in the same room where I keep the one weapon that can destroy me." "Yes my lord." The Crowns don't have a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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