Your Top Ten Science Fiction Writers, and then some.

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Your Top Ten Science Fiction Writers, and then some.

 

I was beggining to wonder when folks would hit the "New Space Opera" stuff' date=' Nice to see others hit on Piper, Robinson and Bova as well. It's rough when you're limited to ten because by the time you toss out the first ten off the top of your head, you want to list ten more.[/quote']

 

Hear you on that one.

 

Haven't seen anyone list Greg Bear' date=' Martin Caiden, Dean Ing, Octavia Butler or the likes of C.S. Freidman or Lois McMaster Bujold yet......Unless one of those was buried in the big lists..[/quote']

 

Martin CaidIn is on my list. Unless there is also a Martin CaidEn as well. I probably would put LMB into the secondaries for 'Falling Free'.

 

One could almost add to the Criteria for the top ten' date=' in a way of thinking of what to list, is what would you want to KEEP, if the rest had to go.[/quote']

 

Not an easy exercise.

 

Anther thing to keep in mind is, just how much reading can one person do???

 

I have been an SF fan since my teens, and am fortunate enough to be instinctively VERY fast when reading. Meaning that there are a bugger of a lot of books I have read at least once. But, for all that, my coverage of the SF genre is exceptionally spotty - some of this, a lot of that, some obscure stuff down the side, and so on. Even with various advantages in my corner, there are always constraints of time and finance. Add to that, personal preference - I know what I like, and there are unquestionably any number of "classics" outside of that class.

 

All of which means that I might have read only this ' n ' that for a lot of authors, and hardly anything for some. Not necessarily because I dislike a given author, but there may be nothing of his/her work that has (so far) truly jumped out at me.

[RexMundi]

Re: Your Top Ten Science Fiction Writers, and then some.

 

I typo-ed Caidin, then again I'm prone to typo-itis when multitasking. I do much much better on an actual typewriter then any sort of computer medium since the idea of a spell checker for the finished product makes me inherently lazy with the production of it. Some really good suggestions popping up there, and I like the Universe Direction a few folks went as well as just the individual authors.

 

~Rex

[Nyrath]

Re: Your Top Ten Science Fiction Writers, and then some.

 

Now if you like the Traveller RPG, run, do not walk, and find a used copy of The Shattered Stars by Richard S. McEnroe (1985, http://www.bookfinder.com is your friend).

Gives incredible detail about the trials and tribulations of a free trader, along with a story including a grizzled captain, a skittish engineer lady who is a secret telepath on the run from an evil Psionics institute, a war-weary super-soldier who just wants to forget, a super-bomb that various factions are trying to get their hands on, and a rogue mega-telepath super villain.

 

A pity that none of McEnroe other few novels were anywhere near as exciting.

[Cancer]

Re: Your Top Ten Science Fiction Writers, and then some.

 

Actually, if you want a good water world sort of place for a sci-fi RPG, go get a a James H Schmitz novel I last saw sold under the title "The Demon Breed"; it appeared in serial form in Analog back in the late 1960s with the title "The Tuvela". The second half of the book in particular is rich for an RPG scene. It's set in the same universe as Schmitz's Telzey and Trigger stories, but neither of those two Mary Sues appear in this novel.

[RexMundi]

Re: Your Top Ten Science Fiction Writers, and then some.

 

I used to get a lot of material out of the Sci Fi serial stuff like analog. Been debating getting into that again, but I read so danged fast I can't afford to replace the material.

 

~Rex

[tancred]

Re: Your Top Ten Science Fiction Writers, and then some.

 

No love for John Ringo (with or without David Weber)???

For shame.

[Susano]

Re: Your Top Ten Science Fiction Writers, and then some.

 

Oh John Ringo No!!!

[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: Your Top Ten Science Fiction Writers, and then some.

 

A reader who puts John Ringo nor David Weber on a list of the 10 best science fiction writers hasn't read many science fiction writers.

[Curufea]

Re: Your Top Ten Science Fiction Writers, and then some.

 

• Lois McMaster Bujold - the best writer I've space opera I've ever encountered.
  
• Isaac Asimov - for creating so much foundation for other writers, he's the scifi equivalent of Tolkein IMHO
  
• Larry Niven - for compelling plots and characters, but still keeping it science fiction.
  
• Iain M Banks - for the world creating ways to tell simple moral tales he uses.
  
• Sharon Shinn - for a setting like Pern, but done right, and with great descriptions of music.
  
• Joel Shepherd - for an interesting android in a cyberpunk world.
  
• William Gibbson - like Asimov and Tolkein, but for the cyberpunk subgenre.
  
• Neal Stephenson - for well researched, but still mostly readable, hard-SF cyberpunk.
  
• Terry Nation - and to a lesser extent Chris Bucher and Terrance Dicks. All of whom need no explanation.
  
• Lawrence Miles - for the Faction and expanding the universe into pure mathematics.
  

Honourable mention to Terry Dowling, Harlan Ellison, Spider Robbinson and Ted Chiang - writers of the best short stories I've ever read, some of which could be said to be science fiction.

[RexMundi]

Re: Your Top Ten Science Fiction Writers, and then some.

 

Heh, I've been vastly entertained, by John Ringo. Then again I read Everything, and have read far far far far far worse, then John Ringo. Even the source of his "Oh John Ringo No!" material, is no where NEAR as bad, as some of the stuff churned out by Laura K. Hamilton for example. I've also really enjoyed David Weber's material, and he was choppy when he started, but he gets better Every Book, and if you want to do Wooden Ships and Iron Men in space, then the Honor Harrington Stuff is a good way to go, and Dahak, is still a good example of Spacecraft of Really Gigantic In your Face-ness.

 

 

~Rex...says, Chuck Norris had the best thing to say about folks calling his movies crap, and the same statement, works for both Ringo and Webber.

[Curufea]

Re: Your Top Ten Science Fiction Writers, and then some.

 

A reader who puts John Ringo nor David Weber on a list of the 10 best science fiction writers hasn't read many science fiction writers.

 

Haven't read John Ringo. Weber would be in my top 20.

[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: Your Top Ten Science Fiction Writers, and then some.

 

~Rex...says' date=' Chuck Norris had the best thing to say about folks calling his movies crap, and the same statement, works for both Ringo and Webber.[/quote']

 

What about what Uwe Boll says about people who think that his movies are crap? Seriously, it is possible to distinguish mediocrity from greatness in something like an objective way.

[RexMundi]

Re: Your Top Ten Science Fiction Writers, and then some.

 

Never Mention that....that.....HORRIBLE name again. Dante, is going to have to reincarnate to re-write the Inferno, to add a level just for that man.

 

~Rex

[shadowcat1313]

Re: Your Top Ten Science Fiction Writers, and then some.

 

David Weber, Honor Harrington and the Prince Roger series

Spider Robinson, the Callahans books

Michael Stackpole, Battletech and Star Wars novels

Keith Laumer, Bolo

Robert Heinlein, Starship Troopers, Time Enough for Love, Green Hills of Earth

Gordon Dickson, Dorsai

Joe Haldeman, Forever War and its sequels, and his novel about Vietnam called 1968

EE Doc Smith, the Lensman series

Edgar Rice Burroughs, John Carter series

SM Stirling, Draka series and Dies the Fire

 

does the Ring of Fire series count as SF or alt history or both?

[RexMundi]

Re: Your Top Ten Science Fiction Writers, and then some.

 

Ring of Fire would count as both I think. One of those weird overlapping stories. Nice pick for the Bolo stuff there. Bolo's get over looked a lot.

 

~Rex

[Old Man]

Re: Your Top Ten Science Fiction Writers, and then some.

 

Never Mention that....that.....HORRIBLE name again.

 

Uwe Boll's name, you mean?

 

 

 

 

[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: Your Top Ten Science Fiction Writers, and then some.

 

Uwe Boll's name, you mean?

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think you're right. He is talking about a guy named Uwe Boll.

[Susano]

Re: Your Top Ten Science Fiction Writers, and then some.

 

Never Mention that....that.....HORRIBLE name again

 

<_<

 

>_>

 

Frau Blücher!!!

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Your Top Ten Science Fiction Writers, and then some.

 

A reader who puts John Ringo nor David Weber on a list of the 10 best science fiction writers hasn't read many science fiction writers.

 

Haven't read much Ringo, so I cannot say much about him either way. I do happen to have enjoyed much of Weber's writing, AND I also read a lot of other SF authors. Thank you very much.

 

You don't like Weber, for whatever reason(s), and I have no problem with your saying so. But personal putdowns (even if intended to be funny, as MAY be the case here) do nothing for you or this thread. Any more than, for example, my making uncalled-for snide comments about anybody who doesn't like DW's stuff.

 

Which, just to emphasize here, I have not done. We all have our personal likes and dislikes, after all.

 

Fair enough?

[lemming]

Re: Your Top Ten Science Fiction Writers, and then some.

 

I think you're right. He is talking about a guy named Uwe Boll.

 

Is this something like saying "That Scottish Play" instead of Macbeth to actors?

[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: Your Top Ten Science Fiction Writers, and then some.

 

Haven't read much Ringo, so I cannot say much about him either way. I do happen to have enjoyed much of Weber's writing, AND I also read a lot of other SF authors. Thank you very much.

 

You don't like Weber, for whatever reason(s), and I have no problem with your saying so. But personal putdowns (even if intended to be funny, as MAY be the case here) do nothing for you or this thread. Any more than, for example, my making uncalled-for snide comments about anybody who doesn't like DW's stuff.

 

Which, just to emphasize here, I have not done. We all have our personal likes and dislikes, after all.

 

Fair enough?

Okay, so what I'm not saying is that you don't have a right to enjoy David Weber a great deal more than many an award-winning science fiction novel. The distinction here is not between enjoyable and non-enjoyable books. It is between great works of art and ...less great works of art.

Some have argued that that is a meaningless distinction.

I say that it is a refusal to judge at all.

To say that David Weber belongs on the list of the ten top science fiction writers, you have to do something very straightfoward. You have to look at the winners of the Hugo and Nebula awards and pick out the one that you would kick out of the top ten and replace with David Weber. Would it be Philip K. Dick? Gene Wolf? Samuel Delaney, Brian Aldis, James Tiptree, Cordwainer Smith, Norman Spinrad, Kim Stanley Robinson, Harlan Ellison, Barry N. Malzberg, Robert Silverberg, Theodore Sturgeon, Margaret Atwood, George Alec Effinger, Ursula K. Leguin, Dan Simmons, Octavia Butler, Neil Stephenson, Jack McDevitt, or Cory Doctorow? Can you do that? I don't think that you can.

And that's a very truncated list of winners, because I've deliberately chosen a list of very writerly writers that I've either never read, or enjoy reading less than Weber, at least recently.

Take Delaney's notoriously unreadable Dahlgren. It's a failure that doesn't deserve to be rated higer than the typical Weber potboiler.

The thing is that it is an ambitious failure. Delaney hit the ground running, went from strength to strength, and finally fell flat on his face. He worked on characterisation, description, prose style, voice, and composition. He was boldly experimental, was bursting with message. He filled his novel with symbolism and allegory to tell another story beneath the surface of the action.

Weber does not do that. He doesn't even try. It's not his forte. It is why, while he may belong on the list of "the ten science fiction authors I most enjoy reading," and even on my list ranks far higher than, say Philip K. Dick, he doesn't belong on the list of "ten best science fiction authors ever."

 

I hope that clarifies things.

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Your Top Ten Science Fiction Writers, and then some.

 

Okay' date=' so what I'm not saying is that you don't have a right to enjoy David Weber a great deal more than many an award-winning science fiction novel. The distinction here is not between enjoyable and non-enjoyable books. It is between great works of art and ...less great works of art. [/quote']

 

Which argument is, in itself, EXTREMELY subjective. "Art" tends to be like that. What is that oft-used line? "I don't know art, but I know what I like ...".

 

Some have argued that that is a meaningless distinction.

I say that it is a refusal to judge at all.

 

You say. Possibly rather judgemental, IMO. Again, differing points of view.

 

To say that David Weber belongs on the list of the ten top science fiction writers' date=' you have to do something very straightfoward. You have to look at the winners of the Hugo and Nebula awards and pick out the one that you would kick out of the top ten and replace with David Weber. Would it be Philip K. Dick? Gene Wolf? Samuel Delaney, Brian Aldis, James Tiptree, Cordwainer Smith, Norman Spinrad, Kim Stanley Robinson, Harlan Ellison, Barry N. Malzberg, Robert Silverberg, Theodore Sturgeon, Margaret Atwood, George Alec Effinger, Ursula K. Leguin, Dan Simmons, Octavia Butler, Neil Stephenson, Jack McDevitt, or Cory Doctorow? Can you do that? I don't think that you can.

And that's a very truncated list of winners, because I've deliberately chosen a list of very writerly writers that I've either never read, or enjoy reading less than Weber, at least recently.

Take Delaney's notoriously unreadable Dahlgren. It's a failure that doesn't deserve to be rated higer than the typical Weber potboiler.

The thing is that it is an ambitious failure. Delaney hit the ground running, went from strength to strength, and finally fell flat on his face. He worked on characterisation, description, prose style, voice, and composition. He was boldly experimental, was bursting with message. He filled his novel with symbolism and allegory to tell another story beneath the surface of the action.

Weber does not do that. He doesn't even try. It's not his forte. It is why, while he may belong on the list of "the ten science fiction authors I most enjoy reading," and even on my list ranks far higher than, say Philip K. Dick, he doesn't belong on the list of "ten best science fiction authors ever."

 

Uh, huh. So, on the above basis, I list any number of authors I have not read - at least, not in much depth, and POSSIBLY may not be that interested in anyhow. All to be based on what I have been told or on what I think others would approve of.

 

......

 

Didn't think so.

 

Take a look at the title of this thread - "YOUR Top 10 SF Authors". No special conditions of entry, and I don't think there is any mention of redistributing Hugo and Nebula awards either. My list. Your list. Other peoples' lists. No right or wrong answers here, just differing viewpoints.

 

I hope that clarifies things.

 

As do I.

 

STILL comes down to trying not to putdown those of us who fail to meet your high standards.

[RexMundi]

Re: Your Top Ten Science Fiction Writers, and then some.

 

Meh. I get put down all the time that's just life. Hells in some threads I'm lucky if I don't get a long post dissected into little sections of Out of context quotes so some person with no perception of irony and the sense of humor of a bivalve, can have a good time turning generality into a personal front. More power to those folks, whatever entertains them really. *shrug*

 

I can see the disparity between David Weber, and a lot of the Hugo and Nebula greats. Is he as skilled as some of those guys, no. No one is really. Most likely no one ever will be. He's entertaining though. While not a Kenneth Brannagh doing Shakespeare, he's certainly up there with a Clint Eastwood doing High Plains Drifter, or a Chuck Norris doing Code of Silence. Additionally, though he's been doing light writing for a long time, Weber's material, gets better with every book, and he has a very Strong sense of Continuity as well. That's a rare thing nowadays.

 

When it comes to picking, YOUR top ten, by all means, select what makes you WANT to read that book. THE top ten, may be a little different but that takes a lot more thought. I can read and enjoy Greg Bear and Arthur C. Clarke, then hop right over to some John Ringo, and Eric C. Flint. Hand me a Mercedes Lackey book though and I'll probably use it to level some old furniture somewhere. So even I have some bias, and I'll read ANYTHING. Even d20 Related product or Battletech novels, heh.

 

Speaking of Directly related to Game material, I'll give, Dan Abnett, and Gav Thorpe honorable mention as well. The 40K universe was very flat, and completely Orientated on the Super Human and Alien until those two came along and made the Imperial Guard, the cool place to be. What I have liked about this thread is it reveals a lot into what "sparks" folks, and better yet, as it rolls along, they get to see what others are looking at, and even if they VEHEMENTLY disagree, they still learned something, that may one day, or may not, lead them to grabbing a book off the book store shelf that they normally would have over looked or passed by, and read it. Worse case scenario, it still sucks, but then they have more ammo to unload with on the next guy that tries to get them to read that crap. Bring on more, I've actually added a few folks picks to my next Used Book Store run.

 

~Rex

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Your Top Ten Science Fiction Writers, and then some.

 

Meh. I get put down all the time that's just life. Hells in some threads I'm lucky if I don't get a long post dissected into little sections of Out of context quotes so some person with no perception of irony and the sense of humor of a bivalve' date=' can have a good time turning generality into a personal front. More power to those folks, whatever entertains them really. *shrug*[/quote']

 

OK. But, dissection of one's views is one thing. Assertions that anybody expressing one specific preference can only be because, etcetera .... annoys me greatly.

 

I can see the disparity between David Weber' date=' and a lot of the Hugo and Nebula greats. Is he as skilled as some of those guys, no. No one is really. Most likely no one ever will be. He's entertaining though. While not a Kenneth Brannagh doing Shakespeare, he's certainly up there with a Clint Eastwood doing High Plains Drifter, or a Chuck Norris doing Code of Silence. Additionally, though he's been doing light writing for a long time, Weber's material, gets better with every book, and he has a very Strong sense of Continuity as well. That's a rare thing nowadays.[/quote']

 

Ayup.

 

When it comes to picking' date=' YOUR top ten, by all means, select what makes you WANT to read that book. THE top ten, may be a little different but that takes a lot more thought. I can read and enjoy Greg Bear and Arthur C. Clarke, then hop right over to some John Ringo, and Eric C. Flint. Hand me a Mercedes Lackey book though and I'll probably use it to level some old furniture somewhere. So even I have some bias, and I'll read ANYTHING. Even d20 Related product or Battletech novels, heh.[/quote']

 

I'm sure that the Higher Powers will eventually forgive you for that last, Rex. For myself, I haven't even gotten started on Star Trek authors. Yet.

[RexMundi]

Re: Your Top Ten Science Fiction Writers, and then some.

 

Yeah but it wouldn't be the HERO boards without the Assertions. With the level of play and development required by the game rules themselves you tend to have a broader more versed, and assertive, smart (or at least like Myself, Deluded into being able to act smart occasionally. ), dynamic and downright mean sometimes group of folks. If you didn't, it would be a pretty boring collective to tap. Hells it would read like the WOTC boards. "Me am Want new Uber Prestige Class Rrragh!" So, we have our clashes and battles, but a lot of times, you'll get something good out of it to.

 

You had some really good other picks as well, Stanley G Weinbaum could have grown to be a force to be reckoned with in the industry and then some. A Martian Odyssey was one (Still is) of my favorite stories for a long time and much of his material is a fantastic source for a good old fashioned Pulp Style Sci Fi, Solar System game. It would have been interesting if he hadn't passed on so early. Folks should really look for that one at least even if he's not your "genre", his level of writing, is something to be seen and read.

 

~Rex