Dwarves, Elves and Hobbits Need Not Apply!

[Nolgroth]

Re: Dwarves, Elves and Hobbits Need Not Apply!

 

I really loved the Dark Sun setting. I still have the 2nd Ed boxed set and I think the 1st Ed boxed set is in my brother's garage.

[Chimera 12]

Re: Dwarves, Elves and Hobbits Need Not Apply!

 

In all honesty, I feel that one can do quite a bit with just plain humans already. So not every conceivable niche necessarily has to be filled with its own separate intelligent species; if elves are just humans with pointy ears and Better Than You syndrome, for example, the setting will work just as well by replacing them with humans in the first place -- maybe even better. Also, by extension, if one does go to the trouble of introducing a whole new race, they definitely should either pop up in more places and roles than just the one they were initially encountered in or else have a plausible explanation for why they don't. (The last few members of a dying species rarely if ever leaving their hidden valley is one thing, hundreds of thousands of dwarves all choosing to live underground, mine, and swill ale on a regular basis just because it fits the cliche quite another.)

 

On the other hand, I'll freely confess to being at least as fond of the freewheeling monster mash kind of setting embodied by classic D&D as the next guy, so this could just be a "what the heck do I know?" kind of post.

[Nolgroth]

Re: Dwarves, Elves and Hobbits Need Not Apply!

 

I don't think the two styles of play are exclusive from each other. In one game, you can have all the Tolkien races and a bunch more besides. In another, strictly human. In yet another, something different than Tolkien rehashes but more than human.

 

My present game is human only, save for a few "behind the veil" type critters. Usually those are or will be unique characters. Have not decided if there are any defined species from the Netherrealm though. Next big campaign may have more species than you can shake a stick at. Depends entirely on my inspiration at the time of campaign genesis though.

[dmjalund]

Re: Dwarves, Elves and Hobbits Need Not Apply!

 

you could go the Ringworld route and fill all niches with hominids

[Escafarc]

Re: Dwarves, Elves and Hobbits Need Not Apply!

 

In all honesty' date=' I feel that one can do quite a bit with just plain humans already. So not every conceivable niche necessarily [i']has[/i] to be filled with its own separate intelligent species; if elves are just humans with pointy ears and Better Than You syndrome, for example, the setting will work just as well by replacing them with humans in the first place -- maybe even better. Also, by extension, if one does go to the trouble of introducing a whole new race, they definitely should either pop up in more places and roles than just the one they were initially encountered in or else have a plausible explanation for why they don't. (The last few members of a dying species rarely if ever leaving their hidden valley is one thing, hundreds of thousands of dwarves all choosing to live underground, mine, and swill ale on a regular basis just because it fits the cliche quite another.)

 

On the other hand, I'll freely confess to being at least as fond of the freewheeling monster mash kind of setting embodied by classic D&D as the next guy, so this could just be a "what the heck do I know?" kind of post.

 

This is my take too. Over the years I eliminated the non-human races with in-games reasons. The Elves got in their ships and left for another plane, the Dwarves low birth rate caught up to them, the Halflings died out from a magical halfling plauge, and the Gnomes just disapeared. Orcs, goblins,etc. were always limited to one area of the world and never had civilizations of their own. They are the "Mooks" for evil warlords and wizards.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Dwarves, Elves and Hobbits Need Not Apply!

 

you could go the Ringworld route and fill all niches with hominids

 

One word: rishathra. I've always been fond of using some of the "Known Universe" species, with some modifications to make them more balanced for use by PCs. The Kzin make for decent badguys, but like Klingons, someone will want to play one, so you've got to have some flexibility. Maybe not all of them are devoted to subjugating all other races. Rather, like humans, they have a variety of cultures which span the gap between gregarious and friendly and deeply hostile.

[Lezentauw]

Re: Dwarves, Elves and Hobbits Need Not Apply!

 

I really loved the Dark Sun setting. I still have the 2nd Ed boxed set and I think the 1st Ed boxed set is in my brother's garage.

 

I think that I still have both box sets for Dark Sun. I did not always get to play it when it came out, but it was refreshing to see a new take on all of the standard races. What was interesting to note, the new races were the cool races to play. No one really wanted to play a dwarf, elf or hobbit anymore. They were more interested in playing a Thri-Kreen, Mul, Half-Giant, or Aarakocra. Well at least in the groups I played the game with anyways...

[Nolgroth]

Re: Dwarves, Elves and Hobbits Need Not Apply!

 

Mul were always my favorite. Though I didn't actually get to play or run an actual game session. All I did was read over the setting.

[Shadow Hawk]

Re: Dwarves, Elves and Hobbits Need Not Apply!

 

I did a brief campaign based on David Weber's "Oath of Swords" trilogy. All the humanoids were 'races of man', sub-species of humanity: Dwarves are short with a afinity to earth magics, halflings are VERY short and congenital cowards, elves are immortal but withdrawn in depression, half elves are arrogant bastards, and the closest thing to orcs are the Hradani, a typical David Weber superrace (with the hero being a spectacular speciman, natch) who are horribly persecuted.

[Old Man]

Re: Dwarves, Elves and Hobbits Need Not Apply!

 

I think that I still have both box sets for Dark Sun. I did not always get to play it when it came out' date=' but it was refreshing to see a new take on all of the standard races. What was interesting to note, the new races were the cool races to play. No one really wanted to play a dwarf, elf or hobbit anymore. They were more interested in playing a Thri-Kreen, Mul, Half-Giant, or Aarakocra. Well at least in the groups I played the game with anyways...[/quote']

 

Oddly, Dark Sun was the only setting where I even sort of wanted to play an elf or dwarf. Mostly, I think, because it would have been easier to get away from the stereotypes.

 

If anyone reading this wants to start an online Dark Sun campaign, I am so in. I can't GM it what with the new job, but I can play the hell out of it.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Dwarves, Elves and Hobbits Need Not Apply!

 

Humans are the main deal. All major civilization is human

 

I'll admit there are two elves in my world living on the estates ( and one married too) of one of the PCs but that's it for Tolkien. They are sort of relics of a different time and universe

 

 

My main back theme is a battle between basically highlander style immortals and vampires ( not a race no one is born a vampire) that has lasted for 1000s of years. there are some player immortals and some descended of them, which gives an excuse for extended lifespan which can be a big deal in my game,

 

I also have werewolves( heavily heavily modified WOD style)and Djinn ( in my middle eastern inspired area). Out in the wilderness I have a few giants and cyclops. Tropical jungles sport lizard and ape men and pulp style Neanderthals . In the oceans you can find monstrous sea hags and deep ones

[tkdguy]

Re: Dwarves, Elves and Hobbits Need Not Apply!

 

I once ran a game that had Highlander-style immortals, vampires, and werewolves. Some of my ideas were inspired by the World of Darkness, but since I didn't own the books yet, I based the vampires on Forever Knight and the werewolves from several sources, including the Jack Nicholson film Wolf. There were also ninjas and Shaolin monks with mystical powers (think Kung Fu: The Legend Continues), as well as the odd Bionic Man or two. And a few investigators like Mulder and Scully. I guess I made good use of my TV-viewing habits!

[DusterBoy]

Re: Dwarves, Elves and Hobbits Need Not Apply!

 

A fantasy campaign with cyborgs? Cor blimey!

[Vondy]

Re: Dwarves, Elves and Hobbits Need Not Apply!

 

(fantasy or science fiction)

 

I generally run games with human protagonists only. In fantasy, I strip out "tolkein races." There may be sentient "monster races" like giants, trolls, dragons, illithids, reptile men, and the like, but not pseudo-friendly better than thou races with monolithic and poorly conceived human knock-off cultures.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Dwarves, Elves and Hobbits Need Not Apply!

 

(fantasy or science fiction)

 

I generally run games with human protagonists only. In fantasy, I strip out "tolkein races." There may be sentient "monster races" like giants, trolls, dragons, illithids, reptile men, and the like, but not pseudo-friendly better than thou races with monolithic and poorly conceived human knock-off cultures.

 

 

Sounds like my game plan also. Diverse humans can serve just fine instead

[tkdguy]

Re: Dwarves, Elves and Hobbits Need Not Apply!

 

A fantasy campaign with cyborgs? Cor blimey!

 

Well, my game was a modern fantasy, but the early days of D&D had a lot of crossovers with science fiction, including robots and laser guns. White Plume Mountain and Blackmoor come to mind.

[tkdguy]

Re: Dwarves, Elves and Hobbits Need Not Apply!

 

I also had an idea about making elves, orcs, et al. subraces of humanity. I started a thread here a few years ago.

[Old Man]

Re: Dwarves, Elves and Hobbits Need Not Apply!

 

Well' date=' my game was a modern fantasy, but the early days of D&D had a lot of crossovers with science fiction, including robots and laser guns. White Plume Mountain and Blackmoor come to mind.[/quote']

 

And Barrier Peaks, of course.

 

In D&D's defense, I think there is actually a lot of this in fantasy literature.

[tkdguy]

Re: Dwarves, Elves and Hobbits Need Not Apply!

 

And Gary Gygax was a fan of the Conan and John Carter novels. Dave Arneson preferred LOTR, and it is largely because of him that elves, dwarves, and hobbits *ahem* halflings were included in D&D.

[tkdguy]

Re: Dwarves, Elves and Hobbits Need Not Apply!

 

I also had an idea about making elves' date=' orcs, et al. subraces of humanity. I started a thread here a few years ago.[/quote']

 

In case anyone is interested, here it is.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Dwarves, Elves and Hobbits Need Not Apply!

 

In case anyone is interested' date=' here it is.

 

Good stuff, Maynard! I've always thought it might be interesting if the humans were the elves, with other hominids being used for the other "less-developed" races. I'll concede that their brains should be bigger/better than in the originals, but they needen't look all that human.

 

My candidates?

Gigantopithecus = Ork

 

Homo Sapiens (Cro-Magnon Man) = "Elf"

 

Neanderthal = "human" (primary protagonists)

 

Australopithecine = Dwarf

 

Homo Habilis (~ the height of Australopithecines) = Gnome

 

Homo Floresiensis = Hobbits

[Shadowsoul]

Re: Dwarves, Elves and Hobbits Need Not Apply!

 

So, if the claims that there was interbreeding between Homo Sapiens and Neanderthals are true then we are all half elves?

 

My (very brief) scan of some of the facts about Gigantopithecus suggests that it wouldn't make for a traditional orc without some radical changes in its behaviour. It is apparently a herbivore and while those can be extremely nasty e.g. hippos, gorillas I'm not sure that they would waste so much valuable grazing time on forming marauding hordes. It might make for a better ogre, a relatively gentle creature if left alone but a terrifying monster if it feels that its safety or dominance is threatened and therefore the subject of much folklore about its supposedly evil tendencies.

[Old Man]

Re: Dwarves, Elves and Hobbits Need Not Apply!

 

Gigantopithecus could then be a peaceful but misunderstood and persecuted people driven to marauding just to try and defend themselves. If you're into campaigns with shades of gray.

[tkdguy]

Re: Dwarves, Elves and Hobbits Need Not Apply!

 

This would make an interesting campaign, SSgt Baloo. Just add Komodo Dragons and you're ready to go!

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Dwarves, Elves and Hobbits Need Not Apply!

 

This would make an interesting campaign' date=' SSgt Baloo. Just add Komodo Dragons and you're ready to go![/quote']

 

I'll see your Komodo dragons and I'll raise you a giant prehistoric goanna.

 

Megalania (or Varanus) prisca was the largest land-dwelling lizard that has ever lived. Adults may have weighed over 600kg and measured more than 7m in length. They appear to have been widespread in Australia (remains have been found in New South Wales' date=' Queensland and South Australia). This immane goanna is not a long dead and buried species. They may have survived until less than 25,000 years ago and are believed to have preyed upon the giant ancestors of kangaroos and wombats. Giant goannas may also have preyed on early human settlers, who must have regarded its extinction with great relief, even if they did not play a direct role in its demise themselves[/size'][/Quote]