How to make the Ultimate Character

[sheva]

The way to make the ultimate character is as follows. It seems weird at first but keep reading and the point will emerge.

1 Reduce your strength, constitution, desterity and every characteristic, figured or otherwise, aside from body to zero, and reduce your body to one. Do the same with your starting movement and everyman skills. This produces a large number of points.

2 Give yourself appropriate disadvantages: as many as you are allowed.

[ You may be wondering whats so good about a character that cannot move or think. Bear with me and the full genius will become apparent.]

3 Buy the area of effect advantage on your body.

4 Spend the remainder of your points buying the increased area advantage on your body.

5 Calculate the volume of your body. As the costs of 3 and 4 are minute, your 1 point of body only costs 2 points, this will be very large indeed. I calculate the diameter of one character as billions of light years.

6 Start the campaign.

7 Your character will take up an area far greater than your game world, solar system, galaxy and likely the universe. Since you start on your game world, or more correctly it starts inside you, you will destroy it.

A character that destroys the game world, solar system et al w/o trying has got to be the most powerful there is.

[Lucius]

Re: How to make the Ultimate Character

 

Nice try, but all you've done is given everyone and everything in the universe an extra point of BOD.

 

Changing the actual size of your character's body (as opposed to BODy) takes Growth, and the Power of Omnipresence has already been written:

 

https://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/72333-How-would-you-stat-up-gods-in-Hero-System?p=1833440

 

Crossposted

 

Yes, this is getting impious even by my standards, not to mention completely silly....but I couldn't resist.

 

 

Omnipresence: (Total: 217 Active Cost, 199 Real Cost) Immanence: Growth (+15 STR, +3 BODY, +3 STUN, -3" KB, 800 kg, -2 DCV, +2 PER Rolls to perceive character, 4 m tall, 2 m wide), Inherent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), MegaScale (1" = 100 billion lightyears; +6 1/4) (127 Active Points) (Real Cost: 127) plus Transcendence Desolidification , Inherent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (90 Active Points); Linked (Immanence; Greater Power is Constant or in use most or all of the time; -1/4) (Real Cost: 72)

 

The first attribute listed, Omnipresence, includes Immanence and Transcendence. The former is Growth, Megascaled, sufficient to cover the entire observable universe as of the most recent scientific cosmological theory, as I understand it. The latter is bought as Desolidification.

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Transcending a palindromedary

[ghost-angel]

Re: How to make the Ultimate Character

 

As Lucius pointed out - The Body Characteristic has nothing at all to do with physical size. All you done is make it easier to kill the character.

[Lucius]

Re: How to make the Ultimate Character

 

Nice try, but all you've done is given everyone and everything in the universe an extra point of BOD.

 

Actually you haven't even done that - you'd need Usable by Others.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedar wants to buy a Naked Advantage Usable By Others and apply Usable By Others to it....

[torchwolf]

Re: How to make the Ultimate Character

 

Hm, I think you might have done two things here.

 

1) Spread your life force around most of the campaign universe to a degree reminiscent of Gormuu (yes I'm such a grognard).

 

2) Possibly caused all mothers in most of the campaign universe to slightly change what their customary words of precaution to their kids into "Don't run around with sharp objects, you might kill the Ultimate Character".

[Daltwisney]

Re: How to make the Ultimate Character

 

I'm not sure what effect AoE on BODY would have, since BODY doesn't really have an 'effect'.

 

"Honey, does this power make me look fat?"

[Nevenall]

Re: How to make the Ultimate Character

 

Or...do steps 1 and 2 and then spend all your points on as many Followers as you can get.

[Matt Holck]

Re: How to make the Ultimate Character

 

duplication costs the same amount

[Nevenall]

Re: How to make the Ultimate Character

 

True, but with Duplication you'd have a vast number of useless characters. Followers can actually do things, like protect you, and gather loot.

[Matt Holck]

Re: How to make the Ultimate Character

 

fair enough

duplication with 1/4 of their powers variant is a +1/4 advantage

so doubling would occur every 6.25 points

[Nevenall]

Re: How to make the Ultimate Character

 

Of course, either suggestion is ridiculous, which was my real point.

It's fun to imagine creating ridiculous characters, and it proves that you truly can create ANY character with HERO System and that fact is not a flaw of the system, but it's greatest strength.

The real answer to these kinds of characters in games is 6E1 page 9.

[Mister E]

Re: How to make the Ultimate Character

 

 

Omnipresence: (Total: 217 Active Cost, 199 Real Cost) Immanence: Growth (+15 STR, +3 BODY, +3 STUN, -3" KB, 800 kg, -2 DCV, +2 PER Rolls to perceive character, 4 m tall, 2 m wide), Inherent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), MegaScale (1" = 100 billion lightyears; +6 1/4) (127 Active Points) (Real Cost: 127) plus Transcendence Desolidification , Inherent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (90 Active Points); Linked (Immanence; Greater Power is Constant or in use most or all of the time; -1/4) (Real Cost: 72)

 

The first attribute listed, Omnipresence, includes Immanence and Transcendence. The former is Growth, Megascaled, sufficient to cover the entire observable universe as of the most recent scientific cosmological theory, as I understand it. The latter is bought as Desolidification.

 

interesting! I suppose the cosmic VPP that Omnipresence is in would be Omnipotence (which includes Omnipresence).

 

IMO, for Immanence, all you need is the Inherent advantage applied to any power (what is Immanent is Inherent by definition). To be big is merely spacial... which is like a 'yo mama' joke when talking about universal Immanence as an attribute of divinity. It's like the improvised kludge of pragmatic immanences. (I actually like it lots)

 

I grock using Desolid to allow one so big to fit in the same space as everything else.

 

The Megascaled Reach that comes with the Megascaled Growth ought to be sufficient to simulate "yo mama" Transcendence ()... representing the ability to affect the effective universe from outside it (hands from practically Nowhere suddenly pick the immanently cosmic nostril).

 

Though... for me, to simulate Transcendence, I'd GM-stipulate that any power w/ the Independent limitation is inherently Transcendent (liberate-able from and autonomous to the PC)... just like I say any power w/ the Inherent advantage is inherently Immanent (indwelling). You wouldn't necessarily get Omnipresence out of the deal (unless you considered all things to be either inherent or independent). But then saying a 199 point power pool constitutes Omnipotence is a bit underachieving, too.

[Lucius]

Re: How to make the Ultimate Character

 

interesting! I suppose the cosmic VPP that Omnipresence is in would be Omnipotence (which includes Omnipresence).

 

Actually, I concieved them as seperate Divine Attributes. The Omnipresence exists outside the Pool that is part (and only part) of Omnipotence.

 

IMO, for Immanence, all you need is the Inherent advantage applied to any power (what is Immanent is Inherent by definition). To be big is merely spacial...

 

Actually, it has implicationes for Omniscience. As I pointed out, an Omnipresent Being is by definition never at Range from anything (and therefore does not need Ranged Senses.)

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary volunteers "Bob was there too!"

[Mister E]

Re: How to make the Ultimate Character

 

Actually' date=' I concieved them as seperate Divine Attributes. The Omnipresence exists outside the Pool that is part (and only part) of Omnipotence.[/quote']

 

Ha! This sounds pretty thorough. Got an Omnibenevolence... yet? W/ Omnipotence, can you make a rock heavier than you can lift... and yet still lift it?

 

 

Actually, it has implicationes for Omniscience. As I pointed out, an Omnipresent Being is by definition never at Range from anything (and therefore does not need Ranged Senses.)

 

Right. I like that. I got hung up more on interpreting Immanence and Transcendence than Omnipresence. As you say, an Omnipresent Being is inherently never at range from anything. This to me points to Immanence, as that which is immanent is right here right now. Why though is there a Transcendent aspect to Omnipresence? Is it so that what is Immanent is also likewise everywhere else too? That would seem reasonable... and Omnipresent. Good reasoning from effect there.

 

So Omniscience... knows everything by touch? Surely, being omniscient, you would still have to know what things look & sound like. Synesthesia? Tactile sight & hearing (feeling colors/sounds...)?

[sheva]

Re: How to make the Ultimate Character

 

Nice try, but all you've done is given everyone and everything in the universe an extra point of BOD.

 

OK, lets assume this is correct.

What you should do is continue the process, and buy your body down to a negate figure. Then you autofire yourself and destroy the universe that way. OK, you are dead, but so is everyone else.

 

Generally guys, I know I am being totally stupid. Thats the whole idea.

[Greywind]

Re: How to make the Ultimate Character

 

Don't take it personally, but that is about the dumbest thing I've ever read.

[Lucius]

Re: How to make the Ultimate Character

 

Don't take it personally' date=' but that is about the dumbest thing I've ever read.[/quote']

 

I think he meant it to be, and I can respect that.

 

OK, lets assume this is correct.

What you should do is continue the process, and buy your body down to a negate figure. Then you autofire yourself and destroy the universe that way. OK, you are dead, but so is everyone else.

 

Generally guys, I know I am being totally stupid. Thats the whole idea.

 

Actually, you can get "the ultimate character" - or at least an immortal one - with one step.

 

Buy your BOD to a negative figure.

 

From the moment your character exists the Bleeding rules are in effect and the character loses 1BOD/Turn.

 

However, the character is not dead until reaching -X (negative X) where X=Starting BOD.

 

Assuming you start at BOD= -1, your "death point" is 1 BOD. That is, one POSITIVE BODy. The only way to kill the character is to heal it to a positive total.

 

And with BOD becoming more deeply negative by the turn, unless someone slaps a Healing on shortly after the character comes into being it will quite possibly become effectively immortal.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary thinks this sounds remarkably like what it's read of tachyons...

[Ragitsu]

Re: How to make the Ultimate Character

 

Sea of blood, anyone?

[sheva]

Re: How to make the Ultimate Character

 

You are a deep and subtle thinker Lucius.

Nice to see someone getting into the spirit of things.

The brilliant idea can be further refined by getting your body down a long way, minus a billion say.

That will generate a couple of billion points for some useful powers and effectively rule out being healed to death.

Just make sure your character avoids Jesus like the plague.

[Lucius]

Re: How to make the Ultimate Character

 

You are a deep and subtle thinker Lucius.

Nice to see someone getting into the spirit of things.

The brilliant idea can be further refined by getting your body down a long way, minus a billion say.

That will generate a couple of billion points for some useful powers and effectively rule out being healed to death.

Just make sure your character avoids Jesus like the plague.

 

And yet you've just outdone me in munchkinry. I admit that it never occurred to me that, once I was breaking the rules by having a negative number for starting BOD in the first place, it was the next (il?)logical (!!!) step to push that number arbitrarily low and essentially have as many points as I could wish by doing so....

 

Ha! This sounds pretty thorough. Got an Omnibenevolence... yet?

 

That would be a Psychological Complication. It's also an invitation to theodicy.

 

W/ Omnipotence, can you make a rock heavier than you can lift... and yet still lift it?

 

Yes, I can make it too heavy to lift now, but then lift it next phase.

 

So Omniscience... knows everything by touch? Surely, being omniscient, you would still have to know what things look & sound like. Synesthesia? Tactile sight & hearing (feeling colors/sounds...)?

 

I see now that I should have crossposted everything I had in that original post. But I could not have known thant when I first posted the link and the extract.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary points out that Lucius Alexander is not omniscient.

[sheva]

Re: How to make the Ultimate Character

 

Is having a negative characteristic explitly prohibitted?

I haven't played much champions since the early 90's, so am not a full bottle on the current rules.

 

And my current GM would not even allow me to take a 2x vulnerability to experience points as a 20 point disadvantage. I thought that was most unreasonable.

[torchwolf]

Re: How to make the Ultimate Character

 

Is having a negative characteristic explitly prohibitted?

I haven't played much champions since the early 90's, so am not a full bottle on the current rules.

You and Lucius have just made me quite happy with the 6E Characteristic minimum of 1.

 

And my current GM would not even allow me to take a 2x vulnerability to experience points as a 20 point disadvantage. I thought that was most unreasonable.

Oh, very unreasonable indeed. I see now that this is going to be a strange week...

*cue Twilight Zone theme*

[sheva]

Re: How to make the Ultimate Character

 

I am actually capable of making perfect sense.

I may not do it very often, but it is possible.

[Mister E]

Re: How to make the Ultimate Character

 

*cue Twilight Zone theme*

 

[Escafarc]

Re: How to make the Ultimate Character

 

I think he meant it to be, and I can respect that.

 

 

 

Actually, you can get "the ultimate character" - or at least an immortal one - with one step.

 

Buy your BOD to a negative figure.

 

From the moment your character exists the Bleeding rules are in effect and the character loses 1BOD/Turn.

 

However, the character is not dead until reaching -X (negative X) where X=Starting BOD.

 

Assuming you start at BOD= -1, your "death point" is 1 BOD. That is, one POSITIVE BODy. The only way to kill the character is to heal it to a positive total.

 

And with BOD becoming more deeply negative by the turn, unless someone slaps a Healing on shortly after the character comes into being it will quite possibly become effectively immortal.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary thinks this sounds remarkably like what it's read of tachyons...

 

 

Beware the Nilbog!!