THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

[Susano]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I think it's important stress, as much as possible, what is **new** in the HSB. Many Hero gamers have the previously published Bestiary, and many or all of the published works from which creatures will be transferred. For me, and I suspect for a lot of existing Hero gamers, there's not a lot of excitement for 6e writeups of 5e characters. That's the impresion I get from some of the comments on the upcoming villains books. With creatures, it's potentially even worse - there's a lot of repetition, especially in mundane animals, which is unavoidable. They have STR, claws/teeth/talons KA's and only rarely anything exotic (venom, for example...looking forward to 6e venom; skunk musk), so the 5e book and the 6e book are unlikely to differ markedly. Adding things we don't already have seems like the best way of selling more books to the existing fan base - especially copies of a book I suspect is being written more of necessity (how can 6e NOT have a Bestiary?) than as a labour of love.

 

The HPA's seem like a source of material that already exists, but doesn't have as much exposure as the print books (at least for those who don't haunt the web site).

 

Well, for starters, everything is in 6E, which is important to me right there. And while I own the HSB, MMM, and the ABs, having the bulk of them in one book along with added bonuses like stuff from the HPAs and Tuala Morn, allows me to set aside and/or sell off/give away my 5E books that I know I won't need (and no, you can't have my ABs, I worked hard for/on those).

[The Main Man]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

1. Even though you've warned us that most creature requests will probably be ignored, the "Sci-Fi/Horror" section could have the Elder Worm, seeing as how they are basically HERO's answer to Lovecraft's Deep One's and D&D's Mind Flayers/Illithids.

 

2. Perhaps a discussion about campaigns with animals as the main protagonists, whether in a Watership Down kind of way or in an Anthropomorphic way like in many children's cartoons.

 

3. On a related note, perhaps a small guide to turning any given creature into a Template (cuz we maybe we want Manbearpig), which really generally amounts to subtracting base CHAR and then adding all of the rest to whatever creature it is being added to. It could easily be in the templates and powers section.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Another bit, low priority: I think that, so far, only two or three Qlophothic creatures have been published. It would be much more impressive, at least to my mind, to have at least five or six. So if there's time when all else is done, adding a couple more would be very nice for those of us with a Lovecraftian bent.

 

Similarly, a truly bizarre creature or three invented entirely from whole cloth specifically for this book would be a Very Cool Thing, though if time becomes too pressing their absence wouldn't be missed.

[Susano]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Similarly, a truly bizarre creature or three invented entirely from whole cloth specifically for this book would be a Very Cool Thing, though if time becomes too pressing their absence wouldn't be missed.

 

Have you read the Asian Bestiaries? How's Steve gonna get any bizarre than what's in there?

[Hida Tsuzua]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

The thing I most want to see are creatures useful for high powered games such as superheroes or high powered heroic games. While the old HSB has some, I could always use more.

 

While you can beef up a bear fairly easily by upping its numbers such as higher CVs, more DCs, and better defenses, that is an effort on the GM's part (having to write down his changes). In addition, even "Superbear" is just an animal intelligence character that has a tough killing attack. High Powered creatures in my experience need to have a diverse array of abilities to stay interesting.

 

A good creature with tactically interesting options in combat is a worthy addition for they can be reused far more often. Once you fought a bear, you're already more or less fought a lion, tiger, wolf, or other large mammal. A high-powered foe like a Nosferatu vampire can be used a grand master in a low powered game, a worthy foe in a medium powered game, or a mook in a high powered game. In addition you can fight such a vampire multiple times in the same campaign and have a different style fight due to different powers use and battlefield conditions.

 

I'll like to see more unusual powerful creatures such as exotic creatures (psychic animals or xenomorphs from Aliens), more types of high powered supernatural foes (demons, nature spirits, or eldritch abominations), or mutants (weird mad scientist creations, battle robots, or aliens). These builds are the hardest to do so I don't expect many to be added, but more are always appreciated.

[Susano]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

The thing I most want to see are creatures useful for high powered games such as superheroes or high powered heroic games. While the old HSB has some, I could always use more.

 

While you can beef up a bear fairly easily by upping its numbers such as higher CVs, more DCs, and better defenses, that is an effort on the GM's part (having to write down his changes). In addition, even "Superbear" is just an animal intelligence character that has a tough killing attack. High Powered creatures in my experience need to have a diverse array of abilities to stay interesting.

 

A good creature with tactically interesting options in combat is a worthy addition for they can be reused far more often. Once you fought a bear, you're already more or less fought a lion, tiger, wolf, or other large mammal. A high-powered foe like a Nosferatu vampire can be used a grand master in a low powered game, a worthy foe in a medium powered game, or a mook in a high powered game. In addition you can fight such a vampire multiple times in the same campaign and have a different style fight due to different powers use and battlefield conditions.

 

I'll like to see more unusual powerful creatures such as exotic creatures (psychic animals or xenomorphs from Aliens), more types of high powered supernatural foes (demons, nature spirits, or eldritch abominations), or mutants (weird mad scientist creations, battle robots, or aliens). These builds are the hardest to do so I don't expect many to be added, but more are always appreciated.

 

If all else fails, go here: http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptationscreatures/creatures.html

[JohnTaber]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Not sure if this is a request for Steve or Fred but...

 

I find it really nice when the entire stats for a beast fit on one page. That way I can run off a copy and get all the critical stuff. I would rather see an entry fitting on one page and have a lot less fluff text rather than splitting stats across pages.

[teh bunneh]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Not sure if this is a request for Steve or Fred but...

 

...or bunneh...

 

I find it really nice when the entire stats for a beast fit on one page. That way I can run off a copy and get all the critical stuff. I would rather see an entry fitting on one page and have a lot less fluff text rather than splitting stats across pages.

 

My goal is to do this, as much as is possible. Sometimes the charsheet is too big to fit on one page, but as far as it's feasible, that's what I'm planning to do.

[Susano]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

...or bunneh...

 

 

 

My goal is to do this, as much as is possible. Sometimes the charsheet is too big to fit on one page, but as far as it's feasible, that's what I'm planning to do.

 

And if it doesn't you can always lop the head of the offending monster and take its Quickening.

[The Main Man]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Hida Tzuzua made me think of the giant monsters of Monster Island.

 

While I'm not sure if they bear mentioning since they are idiosyncratic to the Champions universe, quite a few of them come off as easily made with a few templates - one or more of them could be used as examples of Template application for creating new creatures with notes on what was used.

 

That being said, I'm wondering just how necessary it is for any of the "Giant" creatures to have full writeups when they could be implied.

[Steve Long]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

F'rinstance, Average Venom is written up on page 29 of the 5e HSB and rewritten verbatim on page 104 under Manticore's Optional abilities.

 

I wouldn't have had a personal problem if the 5e HSB had said, "Stinging Tale Venom: See Average Venom, page 29," in the sidebar next to Manticore.

 

Perhaps you wouldn't, not just reading from the book -- but some folx would. And all of you would get kind of annoyed if you want to copy/print out one page of the book to refer to during a game, only to discover that you now need a second page as well.

 

And if that doesn't convince you -- let's just stop talking about it, because I'm not changing my mind and it's all just a waste of time and bandwidth at this point.

[Lucius]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I suspect that at least part of the answer to your second point is covered by your first point. The 5E HSB was laid out in a particular order, and keeping that order as much as possible, while inserting the stuff taken from other books into their own sections whenever practical, will probably simplify the translation of the book to 6E.

 

That said, most of the creatures from the Asian Bestiary I and II, and even many of the Celtic creatures from Tuala Morn, are relatively obscure to the majority of game-readers. The more widely-known examples or their equivalents are for the most part already in the 5E HSB and MMM. Index entries would be much less helpful if their users don't know what the creature they're looking for is called, or that it even exists.

 

My thinking was that there could be an entry in the index for, say, "Asian creatures" or even "Japanese creatures, Chinese creatures, etc." and page numbers given for all examples in that category.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Introducing a palindromedary to some Taoists

[Steve Long]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

1. Even though you've warned us that most creature requests will probably be ignored, the "Sci-Fi/Horror" section could have the Elder Worm, seeing as how they are basically HERO's answer to Lovecraft's Deep One's and D&D's Mind Flayers/Illithids.

 

Well, I wouldn't think of them that way -- that's the Migdalar to my way of looking at it -- but this isn't a bad suggestion; I'll definitely consider it. Maybe add a basic Xenovore, too. But they'd both appear in the "Humanoids" chapter, not Sci-Fi/Horror, on general principles.

 

Follow-up: after some consideration, I'm going to skip on the Elder Worm, because I'd rather keep it in Champions Villians, Vol. I along with the Slug, so I can give it some context (since the new Champions Universe contains the basic Elder Worm backstory). That also keeps me from having to get Cryptic to approve it. But the Xenovore is still worth considering.

[Steve Long]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

The thing I most want to see are creatures useful for high powered games such as superheroes or high powered heroic games. While the old HSB has some, I could always use more.

 

While you can beef up a bear fairly easily by upping its numbers such as higher CVs, more DCs, and better defenses, that is an effort on the GM's part (having to write down his changes). In addition, even "Superbear" is just an animal intelligence character that has a tough killing attack. High Powered creatures in my experience need to have a diverse array of abilities to stay interesting.

 

A good creature with tactically interesting options in combat is a worthy addition for they can be reused far more often. Once you fought a bear, you're already more or less fought a lion, tiger, wolf, or other large mammal. A high-powered foe like a Nosferatu vampire can be used a grand master in a low powered game, a worthy foe in a medium powered game, or a mook in a high powered game. In addition you can fight such a vampire multiple times in the same campaign and have a different style fight due to different powers use and battlefield conditions.

 

I'll like to see more unusual powerful creatures such as exotic creatures (psychic animals or xenomorphs from Aliens), more types of high powered supernatural foes (demons, nature spirits, or eldritch abominations), or mutants (weird mad scientist creations, battle robots, or aliens). These builds are the hardest to do so I don't expect many to be added, but more are always appreciated.

 

 

Perhaps our perspectives simply differ, but I think there are plenty of high-powered animals, monsters, and other creatures in the 5E HSB and related books, and 6E will be the same (if not moreso). I don't have any particular plans to go out of my way to try to add to the number; I think between what's there, and the Templates in Chapter One, most GMs are pretty well-equipped.

[Lucius]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Well' date=' for starters, everything is in 6E, which is important to me right there. And while I own the HSB, MMM, and the ABs, having the bulk of them in one book along with added bonuses like stuff from the HPAs and Tuala Morn, allows me to set aside and/or sell off/give away my 5E books that I know I won't need (and no, you can't have my ABs, I worked hard for/on those).[/quote']

 

Dibs on his stuff!

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The appalled palindromedary rolls all four eyes at Lucius Alexander's grabby behavior and suggests that he's the one belonging in a worstiary.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I don't know if this will make a difference as far as what's included, but some of the creatures from AB I've made fun use of (or would if I had a chance) include, in order of listing: Chiang-Shih, Chinese Hobgoblin, Legendary Men (mainly Niaoshi and Zhouraomin), Bhuta, Naga, Preta, Rakshasa, Athol, Con Rit, Kumo, Nure-Onna, Raiju, Tengu, Buso, Filipino Viscera Sucker, and Tokkaebi.

 

Granted, a lot of these can probably be built from other creatures, but notes and Options on how to do so would be very helpful; I especially would like such on Chiang-Shih, Rakshasa, and Kumo. Others (like the Legendary Men) may be inappropriate for this book.

[JmOz]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I would like to see a table in the back of the book that says where you could expect to see them, especialy what type of terrain (Probably based on the subskills for survival) you would expect to see them in. I would also like to see a Genre/era section. Obviously any GM worth his salt will adapt them for his game (So a T-Rex becomes a Martian death dragon) but I think it would still be helpful.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Another bit' date=' low priority: I think that, so far, only two or three Qlophothic creatures have been published. It would be much more impressive, at least to my mind, to have at least five or six. So if there's time when all else is done, adding a couple more would be very nice for those of us with a Lovecraftian bent.[/quote']

 

That might not be too difficult to accomplish, come to think of it. There are full 5E write-ups for two Qliphothic species in Monsters, Minions, And Marauders, four in Arcane Adversaries, and one in Scourges Of The Galaxy. (Not to mention three or four for 4E in The Ultimate Supermage and The Supermage Bestiary that didn't make the 5E cut.)

[Hida Tsuzua]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Perhaps our perspectives simply differ' date=' but I think there are plenty of high-powered animals, monsters, and other creatures in the 5E HSB and related books, and 6E will be the same (if not moreso). I don't have any particular plans to go out of my way to try to add to the number; I think between what's there, and the Templates in Chapter One, most GMs are pretty well-equipped. [/quote']

 

I did find Book of Dragons quite excellent so I'm good there. Are any of the new dragons from that book going to be added? Are the creatures from The Great White Hunter’s Bestiary going to be included?

 

I also have another question. Since OCV and DCV are their own characteristics now and no longer tied to Dex, are you going to heavily change them especially for animals? And if so, what's the new range of values? I know CV values (mainly by adding CSLs) and defenses were the two largest changes I typically had to make to them.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

That might not be too difficult to accomplish' date=' come to think of it. There are full 5E write-ups for two Qliphothic species in [i']Monsters, Minions, And Marauders[/i], four in Arcane Adversaries, and one in Scourges Of The Galaxy. (Not to mention three or four for 4E in The Ultimate Supermage and The Supermage Bestiary that didn't make the 5E cut.)

I hadn't even thought of AA, and don't (yet) have SotG. Add those to the two in MMM, and the total is seven; I'd be a happy enough person with that. Updating those from 4th Ed would just be gravy.

[The Main Man]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Well, I wouldn't think of them that way -- that's the Migdalar to my way of looking at it -- but this isn't a bad suggestion; I'll definitely consider it. Maybe add a basic Xenovore, too. But they'd both appear in the "Humanoids" chapter, not Sci-Fi/Horror, on general principles.

 

Follow-up: after some consideration, I'm going to skip on the Elder Worm, because I'd rather keep it in Champions Villians, Vol. I along with the Slug, so I can give it some context (since the new Champions Universe contains the basic Elder Worm backstory). That also keeps me from having to get Cryptic to approve it. But the Xenovore is still worth considering.

 

Good to hear.

 

The Slug is one of my favorite CU villains, and I can't wait to see that.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

This may go without saying, but since even the most brilliant mind can miss the most obvious idea:

 

Since nearly any creature can be made into a Kaiju, a Kaiju Template in Chapter One would be a Very Cool Thing.

[Susano]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

This may go without saying, but since even the most brilliant mind can miss the most obvious idea:

 

Since nearly any creature can be made into a Kaiju, a Kaiju Template in Chapter One would be a Very Cool Thing.

 

Isn't that just adding the Colossal Template? Wait... and a lot of rPD and rED... and Damage Reduction.

 

And DF: guy in a rubber suit.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Isn't that just adding the Colossal Template? Wait... and a lot of rPD and rED... and Damage Reduction.

 

And DF: guy in a rubber suit.

And don't forget the "special breath attack."

 

Put it all together, and you're just one step away from The Invasion of the Giant Killer Cyborg Squirrel from Outer Space!

[Matt Holck]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM BESTIARY: What Do *You* Want To See?