Question about absorption

[Stone]

I have used the Hero system for many years now, but I must confess I have never played a character or had a character in my group use this power. I have read the rule time and time again and still I am not quite sure I totally understand this power.

 

As I read it, a PC only absorbs the Body from an attack prior to the attack being applied to te PC's defenses (unless the absortion adds to the defenses, in which case the absorbtion is done after the damage is applied to defenses). However, the stun is applied as normal.

 

Rarely do I see attacks that exceed 14DC. meaning the maximum amout of points a character will absorb is 28 pts, but the character is still subject to the stun. Even if the character is able to absorb the 28 pts every one of the PC's phases (which I assume is the rule), I fail to see why a PC would purchase this ability.

 

True, if the time scale is bought down & the PC is placed in an environment that optimizes the power (ex. Facing 5 villians w/an attack that the PC can absorb) the power can eventually begin to pay off, but until that time the PC would be stunned into a comma if the PC relied upon the absorption as a defense or as a way to boost the PC's powers.

 

Am I missing something here. Can someone please let me know if I am reading this wrong?

[MistWing]

Well, first off, Absorption doesn't provide any defenses by itself, which means our hero would be affected by both the Body and the Stun.

 

Also, our hero is not limited to 28 points. That is simply the maximum he can get from a 14DC attack. If he gets hit by 2 such attacks and he has enough Absorption, he can absorb 28 points from EACH attack. The dice of Absorption determine how much can be absorbed at one time. The maximum on the dice (6 times the number of dice) + any additional points purchased determine the maximum number of points.

 

Lastly, the points only decay at 5 points per turn. It would take about 5 turns to get rid of 28 points (a bit longer). So, for 5 turns, our hero has an additional number of points applied to one or more powers.

 

It has its advantages

MistWing SilverTail

[Simon]

OK...an example:

 

I've got a guy with 10d6 Absorption versus Physical Damage. The Absorption goes to his PD.

 

The character has a natural 20 PD (for the sake of argument).

 

Combat begins. He's hit by a punch, taking 12d6 damage. The roll is average and he takes 42 STUN and 12 BODY. His Absorption give him +12 PD now. He takes 22 STUN from the attack.

 

So far so good.

 

Next time he's hit by the same attack, he takes only 10 STUN, and his PD goes up another 12 points. He's now at a respectable 44 PD. After only 2 hits.

 

Third hit does the same damage. He no longer takes any STUN from the attack (he shrugs off the attack) and his PD is now at a whopping 56.

 

This will continue until he maxes out his Absorption (+60 PD for a total of 80 PD).

 

Not too shabby of a Power, if you ask me.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by dsimon

The character has a natural 20 PD (for the sake of argument).

 

Combat begins. He's hit by a punch, taking 12d6 damage. The roll is average and he takes 42 STUN and 12 BODY. His Absorption give him +12 PD now. He takes 22 STUN from the attack.

 

I believe that, because PD is a defense power, the absorption increases it only half as fast. But he's still moving up the PD chart fairly quickly.

[Simon]

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson

I believe that, because PD is a defense power, the absorption increases it only half as fast. But he's still moving up the PD chart fairly quickly.

I am aware of no such rule. Absorption adds to Defenses just like any other Power.

 

The only statement in FREd (to my knowledge) about Absorption and Defenses is "...but if the Absorption increases any defenses applicable to the attack, only the pre-Absorption amount of defenses protects him that Segment..." -- I followed this in the "example" above.

 

Absorption adds in 1 Character Point for every BODY Absorbed. PD is 1 Character Point per +1, therefore it is a 1/1 with the BODY Absorbed.

[Farkling]

Absorbtion doesn't actually "absorb" the BODY points. Take a look at the last paragraph in column one, pg 88. Specifically, "the attack applies normally against the character's defenses after he has calculated his absorbtion"

 

The key word is "calculated"

Absorbtion provides NO defenses. It does NOT reduce the BODY damage. Link a Force Field, or Armor, or PD/ED construct for that. (-1/2, only to absorbtion level)

 

The Absorbtion dice are to determine how many power points can be stolen from the attack...not how much BODY it is reduced by.

By the book, if the Absorbed points go to defenses, they do not apply to the defenses until AFTER the damage is applied. This is contrary to dsimon's phrasing, but not his example.

 

/EDIT/

I've got a guy with 10d6 Absorption versus Physical Damage. The Absorption goes to his 20 PD.

 

Combat begins. He's hit by a punch, taking 12d6 damage. The roll is average and he takes 42 STUN and 12 BODY. He takes 22 STUN from the attack. He rolls 30 on his Absorbtion dice. Absorption gives him +12 PD now.

 

Next time he's hit by the same attack, he takes 10 STUN, and his PD goes up another 12 points. He's now at a respectable 44 PD. After only 2 hits.

 

Third hit does the same damage. He no longer takes any STUN from the attack (he shrugs off the attack) and his PD is now at a whopping 56.

 

This will continue until he maxes out his Absorption (+60 PD for a total of 80 PD).

/ENDEDIT/

 

And...he could buy something like 5d6 Absorbtion and boost the MAX to 75 for the same price. Making him slower to grow, but even more terrifying. Imagine a PD of 95...Terminal Velocity might not even faze you.

[Farkling]

Oh damn! That softie Hugh is right !!

 

Absorbtion is an adjustment power, and it says right here on p74, second column::

 

"the effect of any Adjustment Power which afects Defense Powers, PD, ED, or the like (increase or decrease) is halved."

 

Hugh is right. ewwww.

 

The example still works. Half of 30 is 15...which still absorbs the entire attack at the rate lised.

[Simon]

Well whaddya know....never even noticed that one ;-)

 

I'll just stick to handling the character creation software and leave the combat software to other folks

[Simon]

Just realized: don't build your Automaton with Absorption to a Defense....it's not worth it.

 

First (assuming you've got a "true Automaton" with Takes No STUN), the cost of all Defense Powers is tripled.

 

Then you halve the effect of your Absorption.

 

So you'll only go up by 1 PD for every 6 BODY Absorbed....

[Farkling]

Bah. It's experience.

 

GENOCIDE power suppressors, power drains, transforms.

 

Elemental Controls with Boosters from element specific (limited) aids and absorbtions.

 

Elemental Controls with Drains and Suppresses that are element specific.

 

DEMON and their magical power strippers and tranfer spells.

 

I dabble in the adjustment area a lot.

 

And I had the book open on the desk when Hugh posted. I couldn't remember Absorbtion EVER mentioning reduction of BODY damage...so I looked it up.

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by dsimon

I am aware of no such rule. Absorption adds to Defenses just like any other Power.

 

The only statement in FREd (to my knowledge) about Absorption and Defenses is "...but if the Absorption increases any defenses applicable to the attack, only the pre-Absorption amount of defenses protects him that Segment..." -- I followed this in the "example" above.

 

Absorption adds in 1 Character Point for every BODY Absorbed. PD is 1 Character Point per +1, therefore it is a 1/1 with the BODY Absorbed.

 

But now I have my book

 

See the discussion of Adjustment Powers on page 74. "To balance the usefulness of defenses in the Hero System, the effect of any adjustment power which affects Defense Powers, PD, ED or the like (whether to decrease or increase them) is halved.

 

Absorption is indeed an adjustment power. You get only half as much PD. [Farkling, how could you let him slide on that? Not going soft on me, I hope!]

 

EDIT: HUH?? WHERE DID ALL THOSE OTHER POSTS COME FROM???

 

I've been a big fan of absorption from its first appearance, so I'm pretty aware of its limitations. Never actually used it to boost defense (Absorb and Damage Reduction is a very nasty combination, by the way).

[Hugh Neilson]

Originally posted by dsimon

Just realized: don't build your Automaton with Absorption to a Defense....it's not worth it.

 

First (assuming you've got a "true Automaton" with Takes No STUN), the cost of all Defense Powers is tripled.

 

Then you halve the effect of your Absorption.

 

So you'll only go up by 1 PD for every 6 BODY Absorbed....

 

Considering how effective an extra PD is for an automaton, this doesn't seem that bad to me. 1 extra PD eliminates a damage class, on average, so the factoring is fair.

 

Oh, and to add insult to injury, that PD (automaton or not) isn't resistant unless you also absorb to damage resistance.

[Dust Raven]

Originally posted by dsimon

Just realized: don't build your Automaton with Absorption to a Defense....it's not worth it.

 

First (assuming you've got a "true Automaton" with Takes No STUN), the cost of all Defense Powers is tripled.

 

Then you halve the effect of your Absorption.

 

So you'll only go up by 1 PD for every 6 BODY Absorbed....

 

The triple cost still applies to Adjustment Powers? Damn...

[Lord Liaden]

It's worth remembering that the maximum points that Absorption, Aid or Transfer can add to a character can be increased quite cheaply, at 2 points for every additional Character Point spent on the Power.

 

While Absorption itself doesn't add to Defenses, it can be the basis for a significant cost break in buying Defenses. You can buy Defenses Linked to Absorption, plus an additional -1/2 Limitation, Only Up To Amount Rolled By Absorption (FREd p. 88). In this case if you rolled a 4 on 1d6 of Absorption, you could add 4 more points to the appropriate Defense against that attack in the same Phase that it hits.

[Dr Divago]

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson

Oh, and to add insult to injury, that PD (automaton or not) isn't resistant unless you also absorb to damage resistance.

One moment:

PD for Automaton (who takes "Take No Stun" power) is resistent

This is why cost is so high

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by Dr Divago

One moment:

PD for Automaton (who takes "Take No Stun" power) is resistent

This is why cost is so high

 

Sorry, Doctor. Taking the Takes No STUN Power for Automatons does triple the cost of Defenses, but doesn't make them Resistant by default. You still need to buy Damage Resistance, and at triple the cost to boot.

[Dr Divago]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden

Sorry, Doctor. Taking the Takes No STUN Power for Automatons does triple the cost of Defenses, but doesn't make them Resistant by default. You still need to buy Damage Resistance, and at triple the cost to boot.

Are you Sure?

even the PD and ED base?

 

D'OH!!!!!!!

 

well isn't' so much a problem 'cause near total Defenses i've bought for Automatons NPC (and PC of course ) is Resistent (ie Armor) but...

...

this is strange...

Triple cost for defense is a too big disadvantage... PD and ED reduced at 1/3; triple cost, if even 1 body inflicted, an automaton lose a power, or STR o SPD or 1 sense, and this defense are not naturally resistent??

 

I trust you, i'm too inexperienced to mistrust you, and to "modifyning" the rules too , but it sounds very strange to me...

[Dr Divago]

Sorry, i've found this on the FAQ's:

 

A: No. Their PD and ED are Nonresistant, just like any other characters.

And

The tripling rule also applies to Defense Powers the Automaton buys, like Damage Reduction, Armor, or Force Field. This includes exotic things like Flash Defense and Power Defense, though a GM could, in his discretion, change this back to the regular cost since the primary game balance concern (Automatons becoming too hard to hurt with regular attacks) isn’t there.

So i must recalculate all defenses powers

[cutsleeve]

have the absorption go into body that way itll give him a bit more unstopability. imagine an automaton who recovers half the body done an attack when its hit. it could last alot longer. then give it regeneration.

[Gary]

For automatons, it's even worse. Negative adjustment powers zap them at the regular 1 for 2 rate. It's only positive adjustment powers that help them at a 1 for 6 rate.

[Dr Divago]

Originally posted by Gary

For automatons, it's even worse. Negative adjustment powers zap them at the regular 1 for 2 rate. It's only positive adjustment powers that help them at a 1 for 6 rate.

 

REALLY??????

 

You mean that, an AID to Armor is 6 point for 1 PD, and to drain is 6 points to 3 PD????