Wacky Combat Experiment... need help

[Acroyear]

As some of you know, I've been endlessly building up a campaign setting and I was thinking, if I ever get to running it, I might want to toy with some concepts. While my group has no trouble at all counting dice and doing it quickly, I was thinking about set damge.

 

You know, something like just hit does 25% hit by 1-3 50% hit by 4-6 75% hit by 7+ 100% of maximum possible damage.

 

However, the kink in this idea is Autofires. Since how many hits is determined by how well you hit by, it also means the more shots you hit with the more damage each shot would do.

 

I guess AE's would be a problem, too, since it's so easy to hit a hex (and you autohit your own hex... very nice for those personal immunity types).

 

Any suggestions? Or anyone done something similar that works? Just think it's a stupid idea? Heck, I'll take any feedback.

[LegionX]

Wacky Combat Experiment

 

Just a thought,

I like the idea of how well you hit determines how much damage you do, and I'm sure that you've already considered this, but wouldn't that place a lot of emphasis on OCV and DCV? I mean, won't your characters buy them up very high to do 100% every time? I mean, where's the limit?

If I could spend points on upping my OCV and DCV to beat the 3.5 average spread, I could save half of the points from my offensive powers and defensive powers and put them towards OCV and DCV. Doesn't that upset the balance of points and power costs?

I'm not criticizing your idea. I like the idea of how well you hit determines how much damage you do. This is just constructive criticism.

 

Hope that it helps,

LegionX

[BNakagawa]

Given the number of ways to reduce a target's DCV to 0 (entangle, anyone) this looks like a good way to nuke the hell out of people and quickly.

 

Step 1 - entangle somebody.

Step 2 - Brick performs move through/Haymaker.

Step 3 - find another target. your old one is almost certainly KOed.

 

$0.02

[lensman]

My .02

 

Somewhere, some has made a matrix for Damage with d6's.

On one axis you have number of dice, on the other is a 3 d6 result.

So say you have 10 d6 effect. You roll 3 d6, the result is 10. The damage done is 10 Body and 35 Stun, set.

I like this method because it saves counting dice and it is a more dymanic system.

[LegionX]

Good Point Bnakagawa

 

I hadn't even considered how tactics would play into it.

 

LegionX

[Acroyear]

Well, with this idea I would still be enforcing my own ideas of CV to DC balance (it's essentially an eyball technique, but the more CV the less DC you can have). So I'm looking at a sort of ten-ten ruling. Add 1 to one side and you have to subtract 1 from the other. Varying a little based on concept and other factors (someone who's got paper thin defenses might get some extra in there... kind of a rule of X but not in stone).

 

Actually, looking at my numbers, above, I was originally thinking of a wider 50% spread (average roll) so the bigger numbers would be harder to get. You do have a point, however, a lower DC, higher CV type character could potentially wreak more havoc. Writing out some numbers with the ten-ten and the listed above, it's superior to have +1CV and -1DC assuming an average to-hit roll. I'm not sure

 

I thinking maybe the 100% mark might be "hit by 10+" (arbitrarily taking the extraordinary skill penalty default) for the perfect hit.

 

Good observation with the problem with entangles, etc (which I can add to my list autofires and AE's). While I don't mind those hits being more threatening (let's face it, it's not that hard to deliver a coup de grace on an immobile opponent) it might be more dangerous than fun (fun, of course, being most important).

 

Basically, I wanted to toy with some set damage ideas but not just do the "all rolls are average" thing. Which is great for making yourself bulletproof or something with certainty but just didn't seem as fun.

 

I guess I could do a set damage scale based off the hit location chart... I kind of liked the idea of the better you hit, the better you put the hurt on, though.

 

Any other ideas, feedback, etc, appreciated as always.

[LegionX]

My Two Cents...

 

I use the same CV balance system as well as an Active point Offense/Defense balance system. They seem to work.

 

So with that limitation in effect, that'll help. Maybe the Hit Location chart will work for you. I didn't like it with Superhero games, but it worked well in Heroic Games. At least for me. But GM styles differ, so who knows. Give it a try. 8-)

 

Good Luck with whatever you try,

LegionX

[Acroyear]

We're already used to using the hit loc chart, but still...you can "barely hit" and still end up with a big clobber to the head.

 

Maybe it's not such a good idea, after all

[LegionX]

Darned if you do, darned if you don't.

 

I've always looked at it like this:

Having a higher OCV means that you have a better chance of hitting the person at all. The damage dice actually determines how well you hit.

 

I've played another game system (That I should say was no where near as good as the Hero System) where the attack dice determined how well you hit and you did not roll Damage Dice. The game felt flat. All depended on that single roll (actually the defender got to roll to see how well he took the damage too). And with a variance of 1 to 20, you could do well and knockout your opponent in a single blow, or pound on each other all day. When the big baddie that we were fighting fell down-went-boom with the first punch, we were all disappointed.

 

Champions seems to be balanced well with the damage dice. You can roll well, but you seldom roll very well, and the inverse is also true. This tends to lead to generally rolling pretty average. This puts the emphasis is on the abilities of the character and not the luck of a die roll.

 

But what do I know? I'm Incompetent. 8-)

 

I hope that you find what you are looking for,

LegionX

[Klytus]

We have a house-rule for critical hits, which simulate the effect of getting a solid or perfect hit. If you make the to-hit roll by half or more, (that is, you need a 12 to hit the target and roll a 6) its a critical hit. If you crit, roll the dice for damage. Any die-roll of 1, 2 or 3 is counted as if it was a 4. If your crit value is 4 or more, and you roll a natural 3, your attack does max damage/max effect. Critical hits do not apply to AoE or Explosion atatcks.

 

Yes, foes who are Entangled can be hit for crits more easily. Sucks to be them. But it still takes a to-hit of 3 to do max damage.

[Dynamo]

Autofire & AoE

 

For autofire, since each success-by-2 increment adds another hit from a given burst, I'd say reduce the quality of each additional hit by 2.

 

For AoE, if I were testing-driving this idea, I would use a standardized result of 3 per die.

[Acroyear]

Ok, this discussion has made me think a lot about the idea and I don't think it'd work well as originally presented (unless someone comes up with a super keen idea to share).

 

However, I'm still kind of wanting to fiddle with something new (especially since we use Hero for, like, everything... so it's pretty much been Hero every weekend and then some for over twenty years).

 

All DCs do 1 BDY & 3 STN (KA's do 3 BDY per die plus multiplier). It's a little below the actual average, but it cuts out rounding for those odd DCs.

 

For every +1 you hit by, you can adjust your hit location by 1 pip. Hit by 3 and rolled a 9 (shoulder)? You can bump it to 12 (gut) or 6 (hand). This will provide the variance to damage and still account for the better you hit by, the better you hit (or worse you hit, if desired). Hit even on and you play it where it lands. Remember, this group is already used to using the hit loc chart so this isn't added rolling for them.

 

There's still a reason to call shots if you like that stuff (because unless you hit by a lot, you aren't going to bump a foot shot to the chest), it works for autofires, and AE's don't use hit loc, anyway, so it's just flat damage.

 

Whatcha think?

[Blue]

Re: Wacky Combat Experiment... need help

 

Originally posted by Acroyear

You know, something like just hit does 25% hit by 1-3 50% hit by 4-6 75% hit by 7+ 100% of maximum possible damage.

 

The only benefit characters currently get from rolls in my campaign is that if they make the very difficult roll of Three 1's, they can have the equivalent of either a level of armor piercing or some combat luck for that action. After all, the chance of rolling three 1's is less than 1%.

 

Conversely they can have some unluck if they roll three 6's.

 

So I'm thinking that maybe you'd kind of beat the issue with people jacking up OCV to do more damage if you based it around a set result roll. That is, if they rolled three 1's maybe they'd do extra damage, and if they rolled, say... 4-5 they might do full damage.

 

Naturally there would have to be something to disqualify the bonus if they have a really low chance to hit. I mean, a guy with a 6 or less chance to hit shouldn't do 100% of maximum for rolling a 5. Honestly, it just sounds like more trouble than it's worth, since combats in champions already take quite a while.

[SCUBA Hero]

Acroyear,

 

Here's an idea I have for "better hit tends to do more damage". Keep in mind that (1) I posted this once before on the old boards and didn't get a single positive comment, and (2) I haven't playtested it.

 

To-hit roll made by 0,1, or 2: normal damage

 

By 3 or 4: read all ones on the damage dice as twos

 

By 4 or 5: read all ones and twos on the damage dice as threes.

 

And so on.

[Mavnn]

Originally posted by Acroyear

All DCs do 1 BDY & 3 STN (KA's do 3 BDY per die plus multiplier). It's a little below the actual average, but it cuts out rounding for those odd DCs.

 

For every +1 you hit by, you can adjust your hit location by 1 pip. Hit by 3 and rolled a 9 (shoulder)? You can bump it to 12 (gut) or 6 (hand). This will provide the variance to damage and still account for the better you hit by, the better you hit (or worse you hit, if desired). Hit even on and you play it where it lands. Remember, this group is already used to using the hit loc chart so this isn't added rolling for them.

 

There's still a reason to call shots if you like that stuff (because unless you hit by a lot, you aren't going to bump a foot shot to the chest), it works for autofires, and AE's don't use hit loc, anyway, so it's just flat damage.

 

Whatcha think?

 

This sounds pretty good to me, especially for Heroic games where I try to emphasise skill levels much more. After all, you can't trade DCs for skill when your DCs come from equipment ...

 

If I was going to do this, I might even disallow called shots - you can just try and move the hit towards the location you wanted. Maybe even declare a number you're aiming for before the shot, and the modifier automatically works in that direction.

 

Michael

[Gary]

Originally posted by Acroyear

Ok, this discussion has made me think a lot about the idea and I don't think it'd work well as originally presented (unless someone comes up with a super keen idea to share).

 

However, I'm still kind of wanting to fiddle with something new (especially since we use Hero for, like, everything... so it's pretty much been Hero every weekend and then some for over twenty years).

 

All DCs do 1 BDY & 3 STN (KA's do 3 BDY per die plus multiplier). It's a little below the actual average, but it cuts out rounding for those odd DCs.

 

For every +1 you hit by, you can adjust your hit location by 1 pip. Hit by 3 and rolled a 9 (shoulder)? You can bump it to 12 (gut) or 6 (hand). This will provide the variance to damage and still account for the better you hit by, the better you hit (or worse you hit, if desired). Hit even on and you play it where it lands. Remember, this group is already used to using the hit loc chart so this isn't added rolling for them.

 

There's still a reason to call shots if you like that stuff (because unless you hit by a lot, you aren't going to bump a foot shot to the chest), it works for autofires, and AE's don't use hit loc, anyway, so it's just flat damage.

 

Whatcha think?

 

This is way too lethal with hit locations. It's far too easy to get a head, stomach, or vitals shot with this for a high OCV character.

[Acroyear]

Originally posted by SCUBA Hero

Here's an idea I have for "better hit tends to do more damage".

 

That's kind of an interesting idea, the better you hit, you get to flip low dice and end up with a more solid hit. Hmm.