Stigmata or other manifestations of divinity

[InVinoVeritas]

For my What Comes Next campaign, I'm going to include an NPC whose power is the gathering of followers to him, convinced of his divine/prophetic nature. I'm trying to determine how to build that.

 

At first, I thought about a Mind Control or Transform power, but I started wondering if this would be more like a Presence Attack. The basic idea is that he activates his power, he manifests stigmata (causing painful damage to him in the process) and those nearby who witness it become convinced of his divine nature.

 

Any thoughts?

[Susano]

Re: Stigmata or other manifestations of divinity

 

If he doesn't emit overt control over people, then a Presence Attack can make people fanatical followers. It has the benefits of not needing an attack roll and affecting an area. If he is (even unconsciously) using some form of mind control, then you could look into AOE Mind Control (follow me!) or Transform (person into fanatical follower.)

[Maccabe]

Re: Stigmata or other manifestations of divinity

 

Couldn't you just use the Follower rules from FRED P 81 and say those are the ones who believe this guy is really "divine" in origin. For +5 points the number doubles , so give this guy alot of followers and "let the word spread" by spending points on more Followers.

[Susano]

Re: Stigmata or other manifestations of divinity

 

Yes, you can, but it might be useful for having a way to convert the masses on the spot for when the PCs show up and cause problems.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Stigmata or other manifestations of divinity

 

Images or a (self-only) Cosmetic Transform, plus plenty of social skills (e.g. Acting, Persuasion, Oratory).

[Alverant]

Re: Stigmata or other manifestations of divinity

 

As he's a DNPC you can give him whatever you want and not worry about the "how", especially if he's an antagonist to the players. But if you insist, I would give him a good PRE and related skills. Maybe a clerical rank. Remember in the real world, there are people who amassed followers who were convinced of his/her divine nature. That would be ironically fitting in a supers campaign to have a normal person be more powerful than an actual paranormal.

[Naanomi]

Re: Stigmata or other manifestations of divinity

 

Not sure the 'point range' of the power you are looking for, but in the standard Supers 80 AP range, one could do something like this...

 

Command Devotion: Summon 32 50-point Various Devotees, Expanded Class of Beings (Very Limited Group; +1/4), Slavishly Devoted (+1) (79 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (-1), No Conscious Control (Only Effects cannot be controlled; -1), Arrives Under Own Power (-1/2), Summoned Being Must Inhabit Locale (-1/2), Incantations (-1/4)

[Utech]

Re: Stigmata or other manifestations of divinity

 

Buy a bunch of Interaction Skills at high levels. Build the Stigmata as +X to Interaction Skills, Costs END, Side Effects (does Stun). You're done!

 

I definitely wouldn't buy Mind Control or Transform unless you want the NPC to turn a PC. Players get all twitchy when you say that their character has been convinced of something due to an Interaction Skill. They don't mind at all if they've been Mind Controlled or Transformed. I couldn't tell you why, but it's true.

[Susano]

Re: Stigmata or other manifestations of divinity

 

Not sure the 'point range' of the power you are looking for, but in the standard Supers 80 AP range, one could do something like this...

 

Command Devotion: Summon 32 50-point Various Devotees, Expanded Class of Beings (Very Limited Group; +1/4), Slavishly Devoted (+1) (79 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (-1), No Conscious Control (Only Effects cannot be controlled; -1), Arrives Under Own Power (-1/2), Summoned Being Must Inhabit Locale (-1/2), Incantations (-1/4)

 

And what are the Side Effects?

[Naanomi]

Re: Stigmata or other manifestations of divinity

 

Appropriate levels of Body damage, from spontaneous appearing stigmata (or self-inflicted, if it is a more 'presence' and less 'divine' power)

[prestidigitator]

Re: Stigmata or other manifestations of divinity

 

Command Devotion: Summon 32 50-point Various Devotees' date=' Expanded Class of Beings (Very Limited Group; +1/4), Slavishly Devoted (+1) (79 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (-1), No Conscious Control (Only Effects cannot be controlled; -1), Arrives Under Own Power (-1/2), Summoned Being Must Inhabit Locale (-1/2), Incantations (-1/4)[/quote']

Oh. Good point. Hmm. Or simply Followers.

[Palmate]

Re: Stigmata or other manifestations of divinity

 

You might want to decide if he -really- is divine, prophetic, etc. or if it is all an act. if it is real then you don't need to build any powers as it is a point of plot - if it isn't then he is going to need mad skills to pull it off. What setting?

 

Palmate

[InVinoVeritas]

Re: Stigmata or other manifestations of divinity

 

You might want to decide if he -really- is divine, prophetic, etc. or if it is all an act. if it is real then you don't need to build any powers as it is a point of plot - if it isn't then he is going to need mad skills to pull it off. What setting?

 

Palmate

 

It's a "modern era suddenly receives powers" campaign world. I've posted all the players would need to know here. Basically think Heroes, Fringe, The 4400, stuff like that.

 

So, the character is definitely powered. His amassing of followers is his power. Is he really divine or prophetic? Maybe. No one knows why the powers suddenly appeared.

 

For the Side Effect, I think I might make it a 3d6 NND Blast to him (the opening of the stigmata), always occuring, for a -1 Limitation. Does that sound about right?

[InVinoVeritas]

Re: Stigmata or other manifestations of divinity

 

Palmate:

 

See the "What Comes Next" campaign thread. Basically, it's a normal world, but suddenly, a number of people inexplicably receive powers. Think Heroes, Fringe, The 4400, that sort of thing. Typically the powers themselves come with some sort of drawback (one NPC can sense all the powered people in the world, but needs a special pineal gland preparation to see normally; another can enter one door and leave another, but must pay someone--it doesn't matter who--$10 each time).

 

So, this NPC is powered, definitely. But is it actually divine or not? No one knows. Part of the idea is that there really are lots of theories but no answers as to why this happened, along the backdrop of everyone dealing with the rapidly shifting balance of power.

 

So, if I make the Side Effects a 3d6 NND Blast, no Knockback, always activated, how much of a Limitation would that be?

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Stigmata or other manifestations of divinity

 

Palmate:

 

See the "What Comes Next" campaign thread. Basically, it's a normal world, but suddenly, a number of people inexplicably receive powers. Think Heroes, Fringe, The 4400, that sort of thing. Typically the powers themselves come with some sort of drawback (one NPC can sense all the powered people in the world, but needs a special pineal gland preparation to see normally; another can enter one door and leave another, but must pay someone--it doesn't matter who--$10 each time).

 

So, this NPC is powered, definitely. But is it actually divine or not? No one knows. Part of the idea is that there really are lots of theories but no answers as to why this happened, along the backdrop of everyone dealing with the rapidly shifting balance of power.

 

So, if I make the Side Effects a 3d6 NND Blast, no Knockback, always activated, how much of a Limitation would that be?

 

I thought Side Effects already ignore Defenses. If so, it probably shouldn't be NND, since that makes the Side effect seem larger (AP wise) when the effect is the same.

 

As always, someone feel free to correct me if I'm mis-remembering.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: Stigmata or other manifestations of divinity

 

Side Effects do always ignore defenses. And as 'No Knockback' is a disad, that doesn't matter. So 3d6 is a Minor (15 AP) limitation, for -1/4; that it always occurs is x2, for a total of a -1/2 Limitation to the power.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: Stigmata or other manifestations of divinity

 

One thing you might think about is that any wounds like that, no matter how they come about, tend to have permanent consequences. Francis of Assisi's stigmata never fully healed and eventually became infected, which played a role in his lingering, painful death. Since it is claimed he was alone on the road to Rome when it happened, people only saw the wounds, not the wounds actually being inflicted. An atheist would say he might well have faked them to improve his standing in the Church, but what would have been the point?

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Stigmata or other manifestations of divinity

 

An atheist would say he might well have faked them to improve his standing in the Church' date=' but what would have been the point?[/quote']

Either I'm extremely confused or you answered your own question, quite explicitly.

[Susano]

Re: Stigmata or other manifestations of divinity

 

Either I'm extremely confused or you answered your own question' date=' quite explicitly.[/quote']

 

I had the same reaction.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: Stigmata or other manifestations of divinity

 

Either I'm extremely confused or you answered your own question' date=' quite explicitly.[/quote']

 

The point is that it wouldn't have done him much practical good. He'd already founded his order of mendicant friars and codified its rules and regulations. He never did have very great influence on the Vatican, and his grand scheme to go to the Middle East and convert it away from Islam was going nowhere. (Later on a couple of his followers would try something similar in North Africa -- but they didn't speak the local languages and most people merely thought them insane). There wasn't a whole lot getting a stigmata would have helped him with.

[Susano]

Re: Stigmata or other manifestations of divinity

 

Perhaps If you'd said as such in your initial post, then I wouldn't have been so puzzled over your question.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Stigmata or other manifestations of divinity

 

An atheist would say he might well have faked them to improve his standing in the Church' date=' but what would have been the point?[/quote']

Some people are just stupid that way? **shrug**

[Tasha]

Re: Stigmata or other manifestations of divinity

 

For someone with Stigmata or other Manifestations of Divinity. As long as they aren't being faked and even if they are. How about the simple complication Distinctive features "Stigmata" Easily Concealed (with Gloves, a scarf and or Glasses), Major Reaction (OMG he's define, or OMG he's bleeding from wounds).

 

I had a Fantasy Hero Paladin that Dimly glowed to show her Divine Favor. Written up in the same way. It wasn't enough of a glow to read by, but just enough to "light her up" if she was walking around in a darkened area.

 

As for followers, Oratory at a high roll with High PRE. Perhaps some followers paid for who are his "Core" congregation. basically the diehards so to speak.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: Stigmata or other manifestations of divinity

 

I had a Fantasy Hero Paladin that Dimly glowed to show her Divine Favor. Written up in the same way. It wasn't enough of a glow to read by' date=' but just enough to "light her up" if she was walking around in a darkened area.[/quote']

 

I like that. It's reminiscent of the golden halos of light that surmount the brows of saints and heroes in much religious art. And it doesn't involve permanent personal injury.

 

For ir to be really effective. it would have to be an effect that secular magic could not quite reproduce -- at least so that it would look "right" as opposed to slightly "off".

[Tasha]

Re: Stigmata or other manifestations of divinity

 

I like that. It's reminiscent of the golden halos of light that surmount the brows of saints and heroes in much religious art. And it doesn't involve permanent personal injury.

 

For it to be really effective. it would have to be an effect that secular magic could not quite reproduce -- at least so that it would look "right" as opposed to slightly "off".

 

 

Where the PC's adventured most of the time was low magic. Basically for people to see any magic was a once in a life time thing. Though in the temples, there were instances of real divine magics there. Overall though a common person outside of the city could go their entire life without seeing a single magical thing.

There were other signs of her having divine favor. She also had an aura that didn't allow her to be dirty. Any dirt would fall off of her after a few seconds time.

 

Here's the 5e writeup. In 6e I would use surface etc.

 

2 Holy Aura: Cosmetic Transform 1 point (Dirty possessions into clean possessions, Time/Getting possessions dirty again), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Partial Transform (+1/2), Continuous (+1) (7 Active Points); Limited Target ([Very Limited]; Self only; -1), Only When Serving The God's Purposes (-1/2), No Range (-1/2), Always On (-1/2)