Why would I want an Accurate AoE?

[randian]

The wording of 6E1 320 implies I still have to hit DCV 3, just like a regular AoE. Note it says "automatically targets", not "automatically hits", which would actually have been useful. It affects but a single target, but then a 1m or 2m radius AoE is unlikely to have more than 1 target. Characters cannot Dodge or Block an Accurate attack, but you can Dive for Cover to avoid one. To repeat myself, just like a regular AoE. Indeed, it seems to add nothing whatsoever for its intended use (AoE attacks with tiny area). Help me out, why pay for it?

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Re: Why would I want an Accurate AoE?

 

The wording of 6E1 320 implies I still have to hit DCV 3' date=' just like a regular AoE. Note it says "automatically targets", not "automatically hits", which would actually have been useful. It affects but a single target, but then a 1m or 2m radius AoE is unlikely to have more than 1 target. Characters cannot Dodge or Block an Accurate attack, but you can Dive for Cover to avoid one. To repeat myself, just like a regular AoE. Indeed, it seems to add nothing whatsoever for its intended use (AoE attacks with tiny area). Help me out, why pay for it?[/quote']

 

I think it's more of a SPFX thing. Plus, you can target someone without hitting anyone else nearby, unlike a 1-2m area of effect. Good in say...a hostage situation..where you want to blast the bad guy without hitting the vixtim.

[randian]

Re: Why would I want an Accurate AoE?

 

I think it's more of a SPFX thing. Plus' date=' you can target someone without hitting anyone else nearby, unlike a 1-2m area of effect.[/quote']

Besides grappling (a hostage situation is essentially a grapple) and tiny Shrunk characters, when do characters ever share space with each other for rules purposes? Even characters in HtH combat are not considered to be in the same space in Hero unless you're using house rules (this is a very common house rule).

[Talon]

Re: Why would I want an Accurate AoE?

 

You cannot Dive for Cover from an Accurate AoE...this can make a big difference. Bzzt, thank you for playing (see below).

[Nevenall]

Re: Why would I want an Accurate AoE?

 

Use Accurate AoE for attacks that are easy to hit with. DnD Magic Missiles or Heat seeking rockets, for example. As the attacker you only have to hit DCV 3, rather then the target's DCV.

A real AoE of 2m would also destroy whatever objects were on or around the character, which wouldn't be appropriate for magic missile.

Also, you can already Dive for Cover to avoid ANY attack, not just AoE.

[Talon]

Re: Why would I want an Accurate AoE?

 

Hm, my bad, misread the rather obvious text.

[Nolgroth]

Re: Why would I want an Accurate AoE?

 

Accurate was introduced so that Magic Missile effects could be generated. Instead of hitting the Hex, you are hitting somebody in the hex for the same DCV as hitting a Hex.

 

Magic Missile: Killing Attack - Ranged 1/2d6, Line Of Sight (+1/2), Area Of Effect Accurate (1m Radius; +1/2), Attack Versus Alternate Defense (Power Defense; +1/2), Does BODY (+1), Autofire (3 shots; +1 1/4) (47 Active Points); Cannot Use Targeting (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) Real Cost: 23

 

As an aside, rather amusing that in D&D, Magic Missile is a tiny little 1st Level spell. In HERO it is a pretty fearsome build. Even at the 1/2d6 level, that spell there would tear through a person in just a couple of applications. And since it has AoE: Accurate that person is at DCV 3 so hitting them is going to be child's play. The target can still Dive for Cover, but that is about it.

 

EDIT: Forgot to add Does Body Advantage build.

[Ice9]

Re: Why would I want an Accurate AoE?

 

Pretty much it just avoids collateral damage. In 5E, it was a +0 advantage - I believe the reason for the increase was that AoE is a lot cheaper in 6E, and +1/4 to ignore DCV with no downside is a little too good. Now sure, in many cases there's no difference, but the ability to hit a foe who's grappling a friend, or standing next to delicate equipment, or holding something important does have its uses.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Why would I want an Accurate AoE?

 

From a similar thread:

 

I would build the missiles used by Iron-Man vs. the terrorists holding a hostage (in the live action movie) with a combination of AOE Selective and AOE 1 Hex Accurate. All Limitations (like Charges) can be applied to the entire construct and can also be combined with CSL's (whether they are part of the armor or just Stark's skill) as well.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Why would I want an Accurate AoE?

 

And for an old 5er version of Magic Missile:

 

Here's a version of the harder way

 

32 Magic Missile: Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6, Area Of Effect Accurate (One Hex; only affects accuracy of selective AOE range; +1/2), No Normal Defense ([standard]; +1), Does BODY (+1), Autofire (5 shots; +1 1/2), Area Of Effect (10" Radius; effective range of multiple missiles; +1 1/4), Selective (+1/4) (97 Active Points); 5 Charges (-3/4), Cannot Use Targeting (-1/2), Spell (-1/2), No Knockback (-1/4) - END=[5]

 

edited:

 

and a complete d20 version conversion:

 

15 Magic Missile - 9th Level Caster: Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6-1, Area Of Effect Accurate (One Hex; Accuracy Of Selective; +1/2), Affects Desolidified Any form of Desolidification (+1/2), No Range Modifier (+1/2), No Normal Defense (Magic Resistance; +1), Does BODY (+1), Area Of Effect (5" Radius; 1 Selective 1 Hex Accurate Missile Per Charge; +1), Selective (+1/4), Autofire (5 shots; +1/2), Non-Standard Attack Power (+1) (72 Active Points); Limited Power (Living Targets Only; -1), 5 Charges (-3/4), Cannot Use Targeting (-1/2), Spell (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), No Knockback (-1/4), Limited Range (-1/4) - END=[5]

 

9 Magic Missile - 1st Level Caster: Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6-1, No Range Modifier (+1/2), Affects Desolidified Any form of Desolidification (+1/2), Area Of Effect Accurate (One Hex; Accuracy Of Selective; +1/2), No Normal Defense (Magic Resistance; +1), Does BODY (+1), Area Of Effect (4" Radius; 1 Selective 1 Hex Accurate Missile Per Charge; +1), Selective (+1/4) (57 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), Limited Power (Living Targets Only; -1), Cannot Use Targeting (-1/2), Spell (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), No Knockback (-1/4), Limited Range (-1/4) - END=[1]

[ShadowEater]

Re: Why would I want an Accurate AoE?

 

As an aside, rather amusing that in D&D, Magic Missile is a tiny little 1st Level spell. In HERO it is a pretty fearsome build. Even at the 1/2d6 level, that spell there would tear through a person in just a couple of applications. And since it has AoE: Accurate that person is at DCV 3 so hitting them is going to be child's play. The target can still Dive for Cover, but that is about it.

 

In all fairness, many first level spells (including MM) are basically lethal to 99% of the population anyways right? At least through most editions of DnD, with their 1d6 HP Peasants

[randian]

Re: Why would I want an Accurate AoE?

 

Ok, I get it now. This would even be useful with a mental power, since AoE mental powers target DMCV 3 rather than your actual DMCV.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Why would I want an Accurate AoE?

 

You cannot Dive for Cover from an Accurate AoE...this can make a big difference.

You can, but in my version you have to dive completely out of the normal area covered by the AoE to avoid the hit, which makes a 4m radius Accurate AoE a bit better than a 1m radius Accurate AoE, and a 16m radius Accurate AoE almost impossible for most characters to avoid....

[prestidigitator]

Re: Why would I want an Accurate AoE?

 

My recent 6E conversion of the 2nd Edition AD&D Magic Missile is as follows:

 

Magic Missile
=============

Basic Spell
-----------

  Blast: 2d6 energy;
     Area of Effect: 4m Accurate (+1/2);
     Spell (-1/4);
     Concentration: 1/2 DCV to activate (-1/4);
     Gestures: 1 hand to activate (-1/4);
     Incantations: to activate (-1/4)

  [ 100m range; 15 active; 7 real; 1 End to activate ]


Magic System Options
--------------------

Long-Term End/Mana
  (Add:) Costs LTE to Activate (-1/2)
  (Becomes:) [ 6 real; 1 LTE to activate ]

Charges
  (Add:) Charges: 4 (-1)
  (Becomes:) [ 5 real; 4 charges ]


Higher Levels
-------------

More Damage
  (Add:) +Nd6
  (Becomes:) [ +50N m range; +7.5N active; +3.75N real; +0.75N End ]

More Damage, LTE
  (Add:) +Nd6
  (Becomes:) [ +50N m range; +7.5N active; +3N real; +0.75N LTE ]

More Damage, Charges
  (Add:) +Nd6
  (Becomes:) [ +50N m range; +7.5N active; +2.5N real ]

 

Which makes it pretty non-lethal (basically your normal punch you can do at range and be pretty sure of hitting, but that you can ramp up with experience). I'm saving Killing Attacks for "higher level" spells like Melf's Acid Arrow, Fireball, and Lightning Bolt.

 

NOTE: My magic systems have various options for how Endurance is used, but are all based on the assumption of "memorizing" spells in a VPP, unless a character really wants to hard-code the spell and pay the full Real Cost.

[randian]

Re: Why would I want an Accurate AoE?

 

You can' date=' but in my version you have to dive completely out of the normal area covered by the AoE to avoid the hit, which makes a 4m radius Accurate AoE a bit better than a 1m radius Accurate AoE, and a 16m radius Accurate AoE almost impossible for most characters to avoid....[/quote']

Your version? I always thought that was the standard version.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Why would I want an Accurate AoE?

 

Your version? I always thought that was the standard version.

 

It IS the standard rule.

 

This post from another thread might help make sense:

 

I answer questions because it makes me sound like a know-it-all (or an idiot; one or the other). And I like to hear myself speak (err...watch myself type?).

 

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Why would I want an Accurate AoE?

 

Pretty much it just avoids collateral damage. In 5E' date=' it was a +0 advantage - I believe the reason for the increase was that AoE is a lot cheaper in 6E, and +1/4 to ignore DCV with no downside is a little too good. Now sure, in many cases there's no difference, but the ability to hit a foe who's grappling a friend, or standing next to delicate equipment, or holding something important does have its uses.[/quote']

 

In my view, the question arises because the character can choose between a small area for +1/4, or AoE Accurate for +1/2. While there are times when it is advantageous to hit only the target, and not the surrounding area, there are also times when it is advantageous to affect the entire area, often hitting multiple foes. The collateral damage of AoE seems to seldom be applied in game - do you apply the AoE damage to all the VIPER agents' foci, as well as the agents themselves, for example? If it applies to the "something important" the baddie is holding, it should also apply to a weapon the target is holding.

 

In respect of the hostage situation, to be in the same 1 meter radius, it seems the baddie must have the hostage Grabbed. That means his DCV is pretty much toasted anyway, so a normal attack should be able to snipe him.

 

The question posed, in my view, boils down to whether the AoE Accurate is so advantageouos as compared to a very small AoE that it justifies being more expensive. The price of every other AoE (all of which, unless Selective or Nonselective, target DCV 3) was reduced considerably in 6e, but Accurate was unchanged. Does that mean it was comparitavely underpriced in 5e, or is comparatively overpriced in 6e?

[prestidigitator]

Re: Why would I want an Accurate AoE?

 

It IS the standard rule.

Ah. Well, wasn't sure whether it was standard or not. Made sense to me though.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Why would I want an Accurate AoE?

 

LOL. Looks like I'll never live that post down now.

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: Why would I want an Accurate AoE?

 

I've also see an AOE Accurate, MegaArea, No Range attack built to simulate voodoo-style attacks that would affect someone anywhere as long as the attacker has the personal effect needed to target them, without worrying about any Range Modifier.

[randian]

Re: Why would I want an Accurate AoE?

 

I've also see an AOE Accurate' date=' MegaArea, No Range attack built to simulate voodoo-style attacks that would affect someone [i']anywhere[/i] as long as the attacker has the personal effect needed to target them, without worrying about any Range Modifier.

Accurate does suffer from Range Modifier (6E1 320).

[randian]

Re: Why would I want an Accurate AoE?

 

Here's another question for y'all: would you have a problem with an Accurate Cone or Line? I think the restriction on Accurate to AoE: Radius only is bizarre. I don't see how the other shapes of AoE could be abusive when paired with Accurate.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Why would I want an Accurate AoE?

 

Here's another question for y'all: would you have a problem with an Accurate Cone or Line? I think the restriction on Accurate to AoE: Radius only is bizarre. I don't see how the other shapes of AoE could be abusive when paired with Accurate.

 

It's not abusive, just easier to deal with.

The size or shape of the target area combined with Accurate only comes into play if the target attempts to Dive For Cover or Flying Dodge (if they paid for that martial maneuver).

[prestidigitator]

Re: Why would I want an Accurate AoE?

 

Accurate does suffer from Range Modifier (6E1 320).

My interpretation of that is that the Range Modifier applies to Accurate AoEs just like it does to other AoEs: counting the range to the target point (center "hex"). If that target point is at zero range but the area happens to include the person you want to "accurately" affect, the range modifier is going to be -0. I see nothing that says the center of the Accurate area has to be on the target you want to affect.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Why would I want an Accurate AoE?

 

It's not abusive, just easier to deal with.

The size or shape of the target area combined with Accurate only comes into play if the target attempts to Dive For Cover or Flying Dodge (if they paid for that martial maneuver).

Agreed. I'd allow it.