DCV Drain

[Fireg0lem]

Re: DCV Drain

 

I'd interpret the pricing of adjustment powers to be based on the assumption that power defense is not common' date=' and certainly not universal. If the game changes those assumptions, of course it will change the value of adjustment powers. Flash is pretty useless of everyone has 12-15 Flash Defense in a 60 AP game too. If power defense is nearly universal, perhaps adjustment powers should be repriced on the basis that power defense is as common as PD/ED (basing this on the usual steps between PD and Power Defense, or rDEF and Power defense, on the AVAD chart).[/quote']

 

The idea is that power defense is "as common" in the sense that most people you care about have some, but that they have significantly less power defense than physical defense. We have been considering lowering it to more like 1/4 of other defenses, though, since they seem to be a bit too weak.

 

Some of the problem here is that some simple powers are just bad, independent of power defense. Assuming 0 Power Defense and 60 AP, unadvantaged Drain DCV is rarely going to be a good power to use, whereas unadvantaged Drain SPD is really awesome.

 

The problem I have with the "most people shouldn't have Power Defense/Mental Defense" is twofold. First, it really does make a fair selection of those powers too good, even if there still are some less good ones. Second, how do you enforce that on the PCs? Paying the points to have decent levels of exotic defenses is absolutely worth it for PCs in nearly every campaign, unless the GM almost never uses enemies with those powers. If you get draconian about requiring particular SFX for those, then it ultimately just winds up making some character concepts better than other character concepts, which I don't like.

[Hida Tsuzua]

Re: DCV Drain

 

I'd interpret the pricing of adjustment powers to be based on the assumption that power defense is not common' date=' and certainly not universal. If the game changes those assumptions, of course it will change the value of adjustment powers. Flash is pretty useless of everyone has 12-15 Flash Defense in a 60 AP game too. If power defense is nearly universal, perhaps adjustment powers should be repriced on the basis that power defense is as common as PD/ED (basing this on the usual steps between PD and Power Defense, or rDEF and Power defense, on the AVAD chart).[/quote']

 

Generally in our experience, it's better to assume that anyone who matters (PCs and vast majority of enemies) has some power defense and mental defense. Without it, mental blast is too good. It also means other mental powers, mind control, mind scan, and mental illusions way too effective. I can see the argument that 1/2 defense cap is too high, but you definitely need to assume some defenses. Otherwise, SFX and character concepts that allow these powers are just too powerful.

 

Generally we see that Mind Control and other Ego + X effects work well. Mental Blast is weak, but AVAD Power Defense and Mental Defense attacks still work with proper building. Drain Stun and Body doesn't work too well. But Drain some other characteristics works since characters often have lower non-stun characteristics values than stun scores.

[Vulcan]

Re: DCV Drain

 

So which is worse, losing 2 DCV or being knocked out or outright dead? While losing 2 DCV might be significant for DCV-based characters, it's not nearly so bad as the other effects that might well come into play if they are hit with 60 Base Points worth of power.... I think you shot yourself in the foot with that argument.

 

Note that there's also an entry on the Change Environment table for, "Additional -1 to the Range Modifier (or, in the GM’s judgment, some other negative Combat Modifier)." If the GM allows it, you could cause that -2 DCV with a simple 6-point Change Environment (and at that value, pile on whatever kind of Area of Effect type Advantages to make sure it hits). Of course, that is Constant rather than being an Instant power with lasting effects and a Fade Rate, but that, too, can be fixed up....

 

You make a vaild point there.

 

The only counter I can offer is that an area-effect Drain would siphon off 1 DCV per application, and is a lot harder to avoid. Even one of my 'glass cannon specials' can usually take a 6d6 EB once or twice before going down, but loosing 1 DCV could potentially be.. bad.

 

Using CE to 'drain' CVs is, in my opinion, one of the most over-the-top things in the rules right now. Fortunately, my GM thinks it's pretty cheezy too and doesn't use/allow it.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: DCV Drain

 

The problem I have with the "most people shouldn't have Power Defense/Mental Defense" is twofold. First' date=' it really does make a fair selection of those powers too good, even if there still are some less good ones. Second, how do you enforce that on the PCs?[/quote']

 

The same way you enforce anything else on the PC's. Perhaps PC's with a wide array of defenses are required to have lower defenses than those who have some weak points. We typically look sideways at someone with more than one high, or two fairly low, exotic defenses.

 

Paying the points to have decent levels of exotic defenses is absolutely worth it for PCs in nearly every campaign' date=' unless the GM almost never uses enemies with those powers.[/quote']

 

This is a catch 22. If everyone has enough defenses against exotic attacks that they are pretty much useless, then the GM needs to choose between not having enemies possess such powers, or having them possess powers that are pretty much useless. Similarly, if the PC's using exotic powers find them an exercise in futility because nearly every opponent has exotic defenses (and why shouldn't they if pretty much all PC's have them?). Result: exotic powers vanish from the game. And now all those points spent on exotic defenses are wasted, since no one has exotic attacks. A bit of a catch-22, really.

[dmjalund]

Re: DCV Drain

 

I always found tht Generic Power Defense is made of 100% pure unalloyed handwavium. But then again so are attacks (like Drain) that are only defended by Pow Def

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: DCV Drain

 

This is a catch 22. If everyone has enough defenses against exotic attacks that they are pretty much useless' date=' then the GM needs to choose between not having enemies possess such powers, or having them possess powers that are pretty much useless. Similarly, if the PC's using exotic powers find them an exercise in futility because nearly every opponent has exotic defenses (and why shouldn't they if pretty much all PC's have them?). Result: exotic powers vanish from the game. And now all those points spent on exotic defenses are wasted, since no one has exotic attacks. A bit of a catch-22, really.[/quote']

 

You are right that exotic attacks lose their punch if most/all the PCs have exotic defenses, but I still think it is worthwhile for the bad guys to have them for three reasons.

 

First, Drains and many of the Mental powers are well suited to evil sfx, and certainly you can have a few NPCs laid low by them to demonstrate how powerful they can be. If the PCs' defenses seriously blunt the impact of said evil powers, it just makes sense that the PCs should be the ones to deal with the threat, which makes the players feel good about their characters.

 

Second, Drains and such are good ways to increase the drama of a combat without completely taking a character out (and nothing is more frustrating that waiting for your pals to finish a battle while your character is kissing the pavement). Regular hits which just inflict STN damage are going to be considered wimpy if they don't do much damage, but Drains can make a character feel "hurt" without making them useless (especially if mixed up with regular attacks); it effectively doubles the number of hits a character can take and still stay in the game. Is that the most effective way for the bad guy to attack? No, but if the goal is a fun combat who cares?

 

Third, exotic powers are often most effective when they are part of a team effort. The big evil uses his Drain to hamstring the players enough that suddenly those zombie minions become dangerous. In my games at least, the numerical odds are usually stacked against the PCs because that is usually more fun for the players, so a Drain coordinated with a large number of attackers can work well.

[Ice9]

Re: DCV Drain

 

I always found tht Generic Power Defense is made of 100% pure unalloyed handwavium. But then again so are attacks (like Drain) that are only defended by Pow Def

True, and I generally impose some structure on SFX/Adjustment Powers when I'm running a campaign. For instance, "Suppress Superpowers" would not exist; "Suppress Psychic Powers" or "Suppress Electromagnetic Powers" could though. Adjustment powers that are more about creating an external condition (draining movement by making ice form on the target, for example) are generally bought with AVAD. In this case, Power Defense (against adjustment powers) can be thought of as how resilient your abilities are to tampering.

 

Powers that effect the body directly (Transform, some characteristic Drains) would be affecting the "structural / biological" SFX, against which people get Con/5 power defense for free (makes Con a bit more useful, and is not enough to make the attacks useless).

[Fireg0lem]

Re: DCV Drain

 

The same way you enforce anything else on the PC's. Perhaps PC's with a wide array of defenses are required to have lower defenses than those who have some weak points. We typically look sideways at someone with more than one high, or two fairly low, exotic defenses.

 

This is a catch 22. If everyone has enough defenses against exotic attacks that they are pretty much useless, then the GM needs to choose between not having enemies possess such powers, or having them possess powers that are pretty much useless. Similarly, if the PC's using exotic powers find them an exercise in futility because nearly every opponent has exotic defenses (and why shouldn't they if pretty much all PC's have them?). Result: exotic powers vanish from the game. And now all those points spent on exotic defenses are wasted, since no one has exotic attacks. A bit of a catch-22, really.

 

Oh, that I agree with. What I don't like is something like "character X can't buy power defense for SFX reasons, but character Y can." I'm not sure how common a viewpoint it is these days, but I've heard the argument that GMs should enforce who can and can't buy those defenses based on SFX in order to preserve game balance, and relying on SFX concerns to preserve game balance rubs me the wrong way. I'm fine with just setting caps or guidelines on exotic defenses the same way that there's usually a DC cap or DC guideline.

 

The situation I would like to have is that typical characters have a bit of Power Defense and Mental Defense - enough that powers targeting them are as effective as powers targeting PD or ED. I don't like everybody having so much of them that mental and power defense powers suck, but I also don't like having most PC-range opponents with none of them.

[dmjalund]

Re: DCV Drain

 

I'd be more likely to allow POW DEF (only vs biological affects) indicating a resistant biology that resists even the most exotic viruses and the like

or POW DEF only to protect ones energy powers against Enrgy Drains ("I may only be able to access 3d6 energy blast, but it comes from a very deep well of energy")

[prestidigitator]

Re: DCV Drain

 

Oh' date=' that I agree with. What I don't like is something like "character X can't buy power defense for SFX reasons, but character Y can."[/quote']

Hmm. I think it depends a bit on the game. Particularly, heroic and very specific genre games may well restrict things based on SFX because that's the way the GM wants the setting to work. IMO superheroic Champions-type games are the only ones that try very hard to be SFX-neutral.

[prestidigitator]

Re: DCV Drain

 

I'd be more likely to allow POW DEF (only vs biological affects) indicating a resistant biology that resists even the most exotic viruses and the like

or POW DEF only to protect ones energy powers against Enrgy Drains ("I may only be able to access 3d6 energy blast, but it comes from a very deep well of energy")

I'm happy with the way the basic system handles it, but players and GMs are free to apply (or require) Limitations for such specific defenses. I'd like to see Flash Defense done this way too, honestly. And to balance the increased effectiveness of a unified Flash Defense, I'd like to see Flash go back to working a number of Phases rather than a number of Segments (by default).

[casualplayer]

Re: DCV Drain

 

Power Defense should protect only a single specified ability but able to be Advantaged like other Adjustment Powers. Want to protect 4 Characteristics? Want to protect All Fire Powers? Slap an Advantage on there.

[dmjalund]

Re: DCV Drain

 

Power Defense should protect only a single specified ability but able to be Advantaged like other Adjustment Powers. Want to protect 4 Characteristics? Want to protect All Fire Powers? Slap an Advantage on there.

Nice idea, but then the basic cost would have to be pretty low (5 def for 1 point?)

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: DCV Drain

 

Also' date=' Power Defense [i']does[/i] affect Dispel.

 

Yes it totally does. I was reading the section on dispelling attacks (to prevent being hit) which it doesn't apply.

[Escafarc]

Re: DCV Drain

 

I'm happy with the way the basic system handles it' date=' but players and GMs are free to apply (or require) Limitations for such specific defenses. I'd like to see Flash Defense done this way too, honestly. And to balance the increased effectiveness of a unified Flash Defense, I'd like to see Flash go back to working a number of Phases rather than a number of Segments (by default).[/quote']

 

I've changed Flash so instead of counting the BODY, I count the "normal" damage total then subtract 3 for every point of Flash DEF(I'm thinking about increasing the costof Flash DEF to 3 for 2). Then the character gets to subtract his REC from the damage at the end of every Phase. As long as a character has any "Flash Damage" he is considerd "Flashed". This has been working pretty good so far.

[Fireg0lem]

Re: DCV Drain

 

Hmm. I think it depends a bit on the game. Particularly' date=' heroic and very specific genre games may well restrict things based on SFX because that's the way the GM wants the setting to work. IMO superheroic Champions-type games are the only ones that try very hard to be SFX-neutral.[/quote']

 

If you carefully balance the access to SFX, sure. What I don't like is when the GM means "Your character has too many defenses, you need to lower all of them by a bit or drop an exotic defense" but says "I don't think that [character] should have Power Defense for [fuzzy SFX reasons.]" If you try to balance your game by being super-strict about SFX, the people who don't care about how powerful their character is will keep not caring, and the people who do care will adjust the SFX of characters they submit to meet whatever funny requirements you have. I really prefer HERO's "points are game balance, SFX are fun" approach.

[The Main Man]

Re: DCV Drain

 

Yes it totally does. I was reading the section on dispelling attacks (to prevent being hit) which it doesn't apply.

Oh, okay, yes. That is true. I have to admit that I've never really had the courage to make a character who does that much though. Oh... when a new game comes along, maybe...

[Hida Tsuzua]

Re: DCV Drain

 

I always found tht Generic Power Defense is made of 100% pure unalloyed handwavium. But then again so are attacks (like Drain) that are only defended by Pow Def

 

The reason for this is that there really isn't anything like Power Defense. If you had 30 PowD and I didn't, we won't know outside of the use of the odd super skill. That's also why SFX for PowD is going to be pretty easy to justify.

[SteveZilla]

Re: DCV Drain

 

What I don't like is something like "character X can't buy power defense for SFX reasons' date=' but character Y can." I'm not sure how common a viewpoint it is these days, but I've heard the argument that GMs should enforce who can and can't buy those defenses based on SFX in order to preserve game balance, and relying on SFX concerns to preserve game balance rubs me the wrong way. I'm fine with just setting caps or guidelines on exotic defenses the same way that there's usually a DC cap or DC guideline.[/quote']

 

I'm not in agreement with this. I think that some SFX *are* more... 'powerful' than others. For example:

 

Concept 1: I am Thanos, with the Infinity Gems!

Concept 2: I am The World's Most Highly Trained (normal) Martial Artist!

 

IMO Concept 2 is going to have a hard time justifying some kinds of powers as compared to Concept 1. Galaxy-spanning Teleportation? I really don't see how the SFX for #2 indicate that ability. Direct Matter Creation? Same problem. It's what I'd call the "Superman vs Batman" SFX problem. But if we allow anybody to buy (within campaign limits) *any* power, what's the point of having SFX anyway?

 

The situation I would like to have is that typical characters have a bit of Power Defense and Mental Defense - enough that powers targeting them are as effective as powers targeting PD or ED.

 

I could live with that, but isn't that just a different limit on what the players can buy? Instead of being SFX and balance based, it is just balance based? In what way, as a GM, can I justify allowing (or denying) a player to buy the same power(s) as another?

 

Power Defense should protect only a single specified ability but able to be Advantaged like other Adjustment Powers. Want to protect 4 Characteristics? Want to protect All Fire Powers? Slap an Advantage on there.

 

Hmmm, on the surface a very interesting concept. At the higher levels it could be quite expensive per point, but that *might* not be a bad thing. 75% rDR isn't cheap, either.

 

I've changed Flash so instead of counting the BODY' date=' I count the "normal" damage total then subtract 3 for every point of Flash DEF(I'm thinking about increasing the cost of Flash DEF to 3 for 2). Then the character gets to subtract his REC from the damage at the end of every Phase. As long as a character has any "Flash Damage" he is considered "Flashed". This has been working pretty good so far.[/quote']

 

Another very interesting alternate rule. But I'm not sure if every conceivable SFX for all possible Flashes would be as... recoverable as all others. True, for game balance, they all wear off, I'm just cautious of tying the "wearing off" to the character's recovery rate.

 

If you carefully balance the access to SFX' date=' sure.[/quote']

 

If I understand what you mean, that (to me) would sound like a complaint I've heard from many DMs in the past running AD&D -- the "Too Many F#@&!#% Elves" problem. To compensate, at least one DM I know banned Elves entirely in their world -- by making them extinct.

 

What I don't like is when the GM means "Your character has too many defenses' date=' you need to lower all of them by a bit or drop an exotic defense" but says "I don't think that [character'] should have Power Defense for [fuzzy SFX reasons.]"

 

Question: Would it be more acceptable if the GM couched a (partial) denial for a purchase purely in terms of game balance? If so, what keeps the player from countering with "Why is it not unbalancing for *him* to have this, but it is for me?" (Presuming that some other character does have 'too many defenses'.)

 

If *nobody* has (is allowed) 'too many defenses', then it is still fair to ask for the reduction purely on the basis of (potentially) being an overly effective character. Which, admittedly, is purely game balance driven. Otherwise, the GM would have to re-tool many/all of his NPCs. And they work hard enough.

 

If you try to balance your game by being super-strict about SFX' date=' the people who don't care about how powerful their character is will keep not caring, ...[/quote']

 

I don't think there is much, if anything, that can be done to remedy this. Munchkins will be Munchkins.

 

... and the people who do care will adjust the SFX of characters they submit to meet whatever funny requirements you have.

 

Or they will play within the limits they have placed upon themselves. We expect players to play within the personality & Psych Complications they choose for their character -- why would it be different for the choice of SFX?

 

I really prefer HERO's "points are game balance' date=' SFX are fun" approach.[/quote']

 

I agree that they (SFX) are fun, but imo in the same way as role-playing the personality & Complications one has chosen for their character. And it is always possible to do a complete SFX (and powers) change on a character via the Radiation Accident. So if an initial choice has become too... confining, it can be changed, same as a pesky Psych Comp. (just with GM approval, as always).

 

Otherwise, what prevents the "Joe Normal" concept from buying all the same powers as the "Über-Mann" concept?

[Fireg0lem]

Re: DCV Drain

 

My point is that if someone comes to you with Thanos, and you approve all of his powers because he's Thanos, and then someone comes to you with Batman, and you're like "no it doesn't make sense for Batman's training to have given him any Mental Defense, because [sFX etc] and also having +6 DCs in martial arts is unrealistic, so you need to cut those down, and it doesn't make sense that his Batarangs would do that much damage, etc etc" then what you're really doing is telling players "don't play Batman unless you like sucking." I should note that if your actual problem is that all that stuff is too powerful along with Batman's CSLs and VPP of NND attacks or whatever, you should just say that.

 

In other words, if some SFX are more powerful than others, you encourage your players play characters with those SFX. Then you wind up with an entire group of people whose SFX is "vague Power Cosmic nonsense" because if you do that the GM will let you have whatever powers you want. Granted, some players don't mind being less powerful than everyone else and actually want to play Dark Knight batman in the Justice League, but they tend to be a lot rarer than people who want to play JLU Batman in the Justice League.

[SteveZilla]

Re: DCV Drain

 

My point is that if someone comes to you with Thanos' date=' and you approve all of his powers because he's Thanos, and then someone comes to you with Batman, and you're like "no it doesn't make sense for Batman's training to have given him any Mental Defense, because [sFX etc'] and also having +6 DCs in martial arts is unrealistic, so you need to cut those down, and it doesn't make sense that his Batarangs would do that much damage, etc etc" then what you're really doing is telling players "don't play Batman unless you like sucking."

 

While I would actually *encourage* a Batman character to buy Mental Defense (but maybe not as much as, say, Martian Manhunter*), I think that allowing Batman to have the same powers as Thanos makes SFX completely irrelevant. I could say I'm playing my "Joe Normal" concept, yet build him like Superman.

 

Now, a possibly more diplomatic way of saying that a concept is not as powerful as another one would be to say that it has strengths in different areas from the other concept. After all, Batman *is* the greatest detective in the world, right?

 

If the issue is being overly (or less than) effective character, that is imo separate from any SFX-based limitations, and can usually be shown with simple math. Unless some other player already the same 'stuff', in which case the GM cannot justify it as an effectiveness issue, and *must* couch it in terms of SFX (or just cave in and let everybody have everything that doesn't directly break the bank).

 

I should note that if your actual problem is that all that stuff is too powerful along with Batman's CSLs and VPP of NND attacks or whatever' date=' you should just say that.[/quote']

 

Oh, I quite agree with this, as it bears directly on the effectiveness of the character.

 

In other words' date=' if some SFX are more powerful than others, you encourage your players play characters with those SFX.[/quote']

 

Well, sort of. It does depend upon the type of game being run as well. If it's a low-powered game, then Thanos (even without the Gems) is right out.

 

Then you wind up with an entire group of people whose SFX is "vague Power Cosmic nonsense" because if you do that the GM will let you have whatever powers you want.

 

Heh. That's much the way I see it developing if SFX is irrelevant to character construction & development.

 

Granted' date=' some players don't mind being less powerful than everyone else and actually want to play Dark Knight batman in the Justice League, but they tend to be a lot rarer than people who want to play JLU Batman in the Justice League.[/quote']

 

*NOTE: I'm not familiar enough with DC comics & their characters to know any specifics about Martian Manhunter, and the different versions of Batman. I presume that DK Batman less 'powerful' than LJU Batman?

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: DCV Drain

 

While I would actually *encourage* a Batman character to buy Mental Defense (but maybe not as much as, say, Martian Manhunter*), I think that allowing Batman to have the same powers as Thanos makes SFX completely irrelevant. I could say I'm playing my "Joe Normal" concept, yet build him like Superman.

 

Now, a possibly more diplomatic way of saying that a concept is not as powerful as another one would be to say that it has strengths in different areas from the other concept. After all, Batman *is* the greatest detective in the world, right?

 

If the issue is being overly (or less than) effective character, that is imo separate from any SFX-based limitations, and can usually be shown with simple math. Unless some other player already the same 'stuff', in which case the GM cannot justify it as an effectiveness issue, and *must* couch it in terms of SFX (or just cave in and let everybody have everything that doesn't directly break the bank). /QUOTE]

 

I just wanted to step in and comment on one thing that Fireg0lem may not have explained very well. I've played in several of his games before (both 50 point "normals" and 700 point "Defenders of the universe" style games), and from my understanding* it's not that he believes SFX are irrelevant. He just believes they shouldn't be used as restrictions by the GM as to how you meet the designated campaign caps/averages/suggested values. If one guy has a 60 strength because he's an alien/super suit/magic ninja, and the other guy is Batman with 20 STR and +8 dice of Hand Attack with the SFX of "Martial Arts", they are both "equal" (all other powers notwithstanding) because they throw down with 12d6 attacks. I think that's what Fireg0lem is talking about.

 

*I apologize for putting words in your mouth Fireg0lem, this is more hearsay than anything else

 

Also, my own comment on this issue: sometimes a GM needs to step in to character creation and make sure everyone has equally "useful" concepts. One example is VPP pools. If I'm running a game for 4 people, and my players are going to play: Dr. Fate, Silver Surfer, Kamina (from TTLG), and a martial artist, I'll shoot the last player an email (or sit down with them) and point out that some problems are just better solved with VPPs. If he wants to participate to the fullest in out of combat investigations, he should be thinking more along the line of "I'm Chuck Norris with a VPP of round house kicks". Making sure that all players have fun SFXs and concepts is as important as making sure all PCs have appropriate psych limitations.

 

EDIT: completely getting a name wrong

[Fireg0lem]

Re: DCV Drain

 

*NOTE: I'm not familiar enough with DC comics & their characters to know any specifics about Martian Manhunter, and the different versions of Batman. I presume that DK Batman less 'powerful' than LJU Batman?

 

Ironically enough, JLU Martian Manhunter has 0 Mental Defense and Vulnerability to Mental Powers. Dark Knight Batman is a guy for whom a few thugs with machine guns are a serious threat. JLU Batman is a guy who can dodge Darkseid's Omega Rays.

 

I think we're more or less in agreement here. The attitude that I am complaining about is that, if I point out "hey, unless you give people some guidelines, caps, or some other [out-of-game] balancing tool, players are always going to want to have some exotic defenses" a certain proportion of people will respond "but what if their SFX doesn't justify those exotic defenses?"

 

Now to be clear, I'm fine with someone playing a character who is weak to mental attacks or whatever, and correspondingly strong somewhere else. So like, if Batman has no power defense, but he has more CSLs than the people who do, that's fine. I'm not fine with using SFX as a game balancing tool, because it tends to flow in reverse - if you try to use SFX to balance, your balance impacts what SFX people play.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: DCV Drain

 

Ironically enough, JLU Martian Manhunter has 0 Mental Defense and Vulnerability to Mental Powers. ...

 

JLU Batman is a guy who can dodge Darkseid's Omega Rays.

 

....

 

I'm curious about why you think that about the JLU Martian Manhunter?

As far as I can remember he only faced a handful of other mentalists or mental powers during the show's run:

The White Martians during the first episode (he owned them at the end by hiding/disguising Batman so he could disable their power source).

Morgan Le Fay, he scanned for her and then she detected it and overpowered him with magic (of the reality bending order of power).

Dr. Destiny, he was not affected directly until he attempted to rescue the others from their dream states.

Gorilla Grodd, he mentally owned him when he was able to replace Clayface in their Secret Society unnoticed.

 

re: JLU Batman & Darkseid's Omega Beam. It was the show's finale and he managed to find another target for the beam (a Parademon) in his Dive For Cover attempt.

[Fireg0lem]

Re: DCV Drain

 

It's more a running joke - he's kind of got the "psychic sensitivity" thing going where he actually seems to get owned by mental powers more hard than everyone else because he's more sensitive to them. I wasn't being entirely serious. There's also a bit of a "mind Worf" thing going on. When they want to show that someone is a really awesome mentalist, they have said mentalist own Martian Manhunter, kind of like when in Star Trek, when they want to show that someone is a total badass, they have them own Worf.

 

See http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWorfEffect, Martian Manhunter is even mentioned.