Which is easier to swing, an axe or a sword?

[LordGhee]

Re: Which is easier to swing, an axe or a sword?

 

After twenty years of reenacting where I got my gaming nom de guerre, what has been stated is true sword are easier.

 

lab work: go to kitchen grab biggest cooking knife. go to tool box get hammer and swing both, watch the cat.

 

 

in 5th edition swords getting a +1 ocv and ax more damage works.

 

as far as weight, short swords 2lbs to 2and 1/2 and sword 3 lbs, when you need to chop thru armor they get a little heavier.

once stirrups come into use (400 AD) swords stay the same weight but get longer (and thinner) so you can reach the ground by leaning over on the stirrup and stabbing the victim on the ground. Ancient cav used javelins for reach as no stirrups.

 

I once went to my Museum Replicas catalogs and listed every swords weight and length, lost that but that information is on the site (great stuff which can be found much cheaper -there stuff is made in India)

 

http://www.museumreplicas.com/c-15-swords-knives-daggers.aspx

 

so in very broad terms the sword is a 3 pound weapon, thicker to chop through armor and thinner to thrust through armor.

 

oh and rapiers were noble weapons whose main use was as a cav weapon. they where long to stab from horse back, the fact they where good weapons in a duel was a bonus.

 

thoughts

Lord Ghee

[Escafarc]

Re: Which is easier to swing, an axe or a sword?

 

I agree swinging a cat is harder.......what?

[Susano]

Re: Which is easier to swing, an axe or a sword?

 

A well-balanced sword will feel almost weightless in your hand. An axe? Not so much. However, an axe wants to chop through stuff and will do a number on a lot of stuff I'd not want to hit with a sword (like a tree.)

[LordGhee]

Re: Which is easier to swing, an axe or a sword?

 

The Bayeux tapestry shows how both where used in combat take a look

 

http://hastings1066.com/

[ghost-angel]

Re: Which is easier to swing, an axe or a sword?

 

The article I linked also noted that reproductions of period items tend to be "off". According to the article' date=' a well made sword from the period just feels right -- it "wants to be wielded". GA, I'm curious as to whether that might be the case with yours.[/quote']

 

Between a reproduction and my complete lack of training - I'm sure there's a reason I have an easier time with an axe between the two.

 

I will say that axes are far from "inaccurate" if one know how to properly aim it. As Susano pointed out - an axe WANTS to cut something down. It just feels like an ingrained desire to make 1 thing into 2 things.

 

One thing I will say about watching other people chop with an axe, too many of them grab near the end with both hands and do some weird overhand swing. One hand should hold the base of the handle, the other starts near the middle and as you swing slides down to the end of the axe, which is what provides the control and aim. Also - chopping trees is a side-arm action, and if you get a good enough rhythm going there's very very little time between swings, "resetting" an axe swing is as simple as bringing your arm back to the start position, if you're rotating your torso a lot you're just going to pull something eventually.

[AirborneRob]

Re: Which is easier to swing, an axe or a sword?

 

I agree swinging a cat is harder.......what?

 

lol, i dub thee a nut

[Matt Holck]

Re: Which is easier to swing, an axe or a sword?

 

orbital bean stocks fail under there own weight

[dmjalund]

Re: Which is easier to swing, an axe or a sword?

 

However, how easy is it to parry with an axe?

[Susano]

Re: Which is easier to swing, an axe or a sword?

 

However' date=' how easy is it to parry with an axe?[/quote']

 

Not very... but the giant climbing down it will be in for a surprise.

[Starcloud]

Re: Which is easier to swing, an axe or a sword?

 

Most weapons tended to weigh in the range of two to three pounds, even if it might look otherwise. The all metal maces were probably the heaviest, tying with the two handed swords, at between five and six pounds. The fifteen-twenty pound two handed sword is a strictly ceremonial weapon used in parades and marches. It looked good, but it wasn't viable on the field *because* it weighed too darn much.

[mikesama]

Re: Which is easier to swing, an axe or a sword?

 

Interesting.

 

Without trying to be insulting, is that personal experience?

 

Learned when dealing with a boarding axe and hatchet during a seminar given by the Historical Maritime combat association.

The sword stuff comes from the Davenriche European Martial Artes School

[dmjalund]

Re: Which is easier to swing, an axe or a sword?

 

Last night I asked an expert and this is what he said:

One great advantage people don't consider of swords over axes is that swords can be sheathed.

he also later said that you can't stab with an axe.

[The Weapon]

Re: Which is easier to swing, an axe or a sword?

 

My sword is about 3 feet long (including handle), weighs in at 3.5 pounds of Toledo Steel.

 

I'm not trained to wield a sword, but swinging that around vs my axe - which admittedly is a wood axe, but weighs 4lbs - the axe is much easier to swing, less tiring. Don't know if knowing how to split a log in useful in a fight though.

 

Ok if your sword is lighter and still harder to swing that means that it's much longer. Longer is better both for hitting people and for damaging them when you hit, because you want the energy required to stop the weapon to be big. The longer the weapon the greater the moment of inertia* the the more energy you need to slow it down. Of course this means that you need more energy to speed it up too which means you take more time to accelerate the sword. It's a tradeoff speed of blow vs. energy.

A weapon that's too heavy requires too much energy to keep up and therefore you can't put enough into hitting people. Also as the strength required to wield it approaches the users strength it becomes less accurate. A weapon whose moment or inertia* is too great is too slow to hit anything that can dodge.

 

Here's my (admittedly inexperienced) take on it, with swords you don't have to hit with the end, with axes you do. For the same mass and length swords have a lower moment of inertia because their weight isn't as concentrated towards the end. This means it's faster to make a blow and faster bring the weapon back to prepared for another but the axe hits harder. But this is for the same weight and length so it's not really useful for comparing competing weapons. The real answer is that the lighter and shorter weapons are easiest to swing and the ones whose balance was designed by competent weaponsmiths are the ones easiest to swing where you want.

 

Big axes like the Lochaber axes are quite hard to swing having immense moments of inertia, but that's OK because you don't swing them often, you hold the vertical, wait until you get a good shot and then swing down for with lethal power. Then hit or miss you drag it up again and wait for another good shot.

 

 

* Moment of inerita = the total of (mass times how far that mass is from the axis it's rotating around) for all bits of mass in the object. So 100 grams 60cm from the axis has the same m.o.i. as 200 grams 30 cm from the axis.

[Old Man]

Re: Which is easier to swing, an axe or a sword?

 

What if you had a telescoping axe handle such that the axe head was right by your hand, then as you swung it, the haft would extend so as to reach full length by the time of impact? Would this inflict the same damage as a standard axe while being easier to swing? Or would there be less force behind the head?

[Susano]

Re: Which is easier to swing, an axe or a sword?

 

What if you had a telescoping axe handle such that the axe head was right by your hand' date=' then as you swung it, the haft would extend so as to reach full length by the time of impact? Would this inflict the same damage as a standard axe while being easier to swing? Or would there be less force behind the head?[/quote']

 

I think the outward motion of the axe head moving away from your hand would throw off your aim.

[Vulcan]

Re: Which is easier to swing, an axe or a sword?

 

Not to mention that the telescopic action would give you a rather flimsy haft, assuming the overall weapon weighs a reasonable amount (3-5 lbs). You also risk telescoping errors - either the action jams, making you swing short, or it fails entirely and the business end of your weapon flies off into the wild blue yonder leaving you with a underweight stick...

 

Axes are very simple and straightforward weapons. As much mass as possible is at the end, behind the short striking edge, so it will swing easily and hit hard. Aim... that can be a bit tricky, especially if you are swinging at something that doesn't want to be hit.

 

Swords are a bit more tricky. But it is easier to alter the arc of trajectory mid-swing with a sword than an axe, making it more likely you will hit.

 

On the defense, Axes are incredibly difficult. You are forced to parry with the shaft much like you would with a quarterstaff, but unlike the quarterstaff the axe is incredibly unbalanced. So, most of the time you are forced to just dodge.

 

It takes a lot more effort to move the threatened part of your body clear than it does to parry the blow. But the axe sometimes just won't be there in time. A sword is much faster on the parry.

 

On the offense side... well, something hit with an axe tends to stay hit. A glancing blow from an axe might still break bones, while a glancing blow from a sword might be turned with minimal injury.

[Susano]

Re: Which is easier to swing, an axe or a sword?

 

On the offense side... well' date=' something hit with an axe tends to stay hit. A glancing blow from an axe might still break bones, while a glancing blow from a sword might be turned with minimal injury.[/quote']

 

I don't think an axe blow would break bones. At least, not a 'war' axe. Danish bearded axes used by the Vikings were rather think-bladed, if I recall correctly, but were feared for their cutting and slicing power.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Which is easier to swing, an axe or a sword?

 

Learned when dealing with a boarding axe and hatchet during a seminar given by the Historical Maritime combat association.

The sword stuff comes from the Davenriche European Martial Artes School

Dav and I go way back (I knighted him, for instance)

We were sparring partners back in the day. He's become an amazing store of knowledge over the years (and could wipe the floor with me now )

[Vulcan]

Re: Which is easier to swing, an axe or a sword?

 

I don't think an axe blow would break bones. At least' date=' not a 'war' axe. Danish bearded axes used by the Vikings were rather think-bladed, if I recall correctly, but were feared for their cutting and slicing power.[/quote']

 

The weight - and therefore the force if impact - is far more concentrated at the end with an axe than with a sword. Striking with the flat of a sword is basically like spanking someone. Striking with the flat of an axe is basically like hitting them with a hammer.

[Susano]

Re: Which is easier to swing, an axe or a sword?

 

The weight - and therefore the force if impact - is far more concentrated at the end with an axe than with a sword. Striking with the flat of a sword is basically like spanking someone. Striking with the flat of an axe is basically like hitting them with a hammer.

 

Except, I really don't see how hitting anything with the flat of the axe is going to be all that useful. It's not very balanced that way.

[LordGhee]

Re: Which is easier to swing, an axe or a sword?

 

Have you ever been hit with a hammer?

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: Which is easier to swing, an axe or a sword?

 

Have you ever been hit with a hammer?

Probably. It's hard to swing a hammer without hitting your nail every now and then.

 

And there's always "When I nod my head, you hit it"

[Susano]

Re: Which is easier to swing, an axe or a sword?

 

Have you ever been hit with a hammer?

 

What I'm saying is that I don't agree that getting hit with the flat of an axe blade is going to be like getting hit with a hammer.

[Vulcan]

Re: Which is easier to swing, an axe or a sword?

 

The point is, if you swing with a sword and are off a bit, you aren't going to accomplish very much. But if you swing with an axe and are off by a bit, that's still 4-5 lbs of metal moving at quite a high velocity involved in the impact.

[Starcloud]

Re: Which is easier to swing, an axe or a sword?

 

Except: Handaxes for use on the battlefield didn't weigh 4-5 pounds. They weighed 2-3 pounds. Why? Because anything heavier gets harder to swing over time, and most actual battles lasted for hours, possibly over several days.

They were, however, still incredibly effective. Studies of bodies found in archeological digs at battlefield sites in Europe showed that a hand axe could cut through a man's arm, chain mail and leather hauberk and all.