What is the advantage of buying Combat Skill Levels vs OCV?

[star]

So was just curious if there was an advantage to buying CSL's vs OCV levels. In my case it would be used for a multi power and after reading in the book it would end up being for a large group of attacks (more than 3 different attacks in the multi power) so would cost 5pts per rank the same as if I was buying OCV.

[Matt Holck]

Re: What is the advantage of buying Combat Skill Levels vs OCV?

 

combat skill levels can be put into DCV when practicing a maneuver modified by them

 

personally, I think this can be somewhat unbalancing

because OCV is most often is applied to a single target

while DCV is counted for all incoming attacks

[star]

Re: What is the advantage of buying Combat Skill Levels vs OCV?

 

combat skill levels can be put into DCV when practicing a maneuver modified by them

 

personally, I think this can be somewhat unbalancing

because OCV is most often is applied to a single target

while DCV is counted for all incoming attacks

 

CSL can be added to your DCV also? Is this a one or the other type of thing? Or in the case of a maneuver such as "Defensive Shot" which gives -1 OCV and +2 DCV, if I use that maneuver with an attack that can use a +2 CSL would that mean the maneuver adds 2 to both the DCV AND OCV or how would it work?

[Matt Holck]

Re: What is the advantage of buying Combat Skill Levels vs OCV?

 

one or the other

the character chooses whether to assign the levels to OCV or DCV

[star]

Re: What is the advantage of buying Combat Skill Levels vs OCV?

 

one or the other

the character chooses whether to assign the levels to OCV or DCV

 

Can you split it up? Mean put some into OCV and some into DCV?

[Ice9]

Re: What is the advantage of buying Combat Skill Levels vs OCV?

 

Yes. In addition, you can use CSLs to add to damage (every two CSLs = +1 DC), which is useful against immobilized or easy to hit targets.

 

I would say that if 5-point CSLs cover all your attacks, it's a better buy than straight OCV. If you need 8-point ones, then the question is more uncertain, and depends how often you'll be able to use them for defense.

[BoloOfEarth]

Re: What is the advantage of buying Combat Skill Levels vs OCV?

 

combat skill levels can be put into DCV when practicing a maneuver modified by them

 

To be exact, the CSL can increase DCV against the type of attack the CSL is being used for. So if you had 3 CSLs with your Multipower, and were using 2 for OCV and 1 for DCV while firing a ranged attack, the +1 DCV only applies to ranged attacks, not HtH.

[Fryguy]

Re: What is the advantage of buying Combat Skill Levels vs OCV?

 

In my case it would be used for a multi power and after reading in the book it would end up being for a large group of attacks (more than 3 different attacks in the multi power) so would cost 5pts per rank the same as if I was buying OCV

.

 

What about buying CSLs with a limitation "does not affect DCV?" According to the CSL rules the 3 pt CSLs are only for any 3 attacks and the 5 pt CSLs are only for a group of related of attacks.

 

Also, you might consider making a custom CSL of 4 pts each for the attacks of a MP. Just a thought.

[Matt Holck]

Re: What is the advantage of buying Combat Skill Levels vs OCV?

 

To be exact' date=' the CSL can increase DCV against the type of attack the CSL is being used for. So if you had 3 CSLs with your Multipower, and were using 2 for OCV and 1 for DCV while firing a ranged attack, the +1 DCV only applies to ranged attacks, not HtH.[/quote']

 

I saw that in A Level of Confusion in Hero System discussion

 

I imagine if a character exercises a martial strike they still get +2 DCV versus all attacks

[Fryguy]

Re: What is the advantage of buying Combat Skill Levels vs OCV?

 

I imagine if a character exercises a martial strike they still get +2 DCV versus all attacks

 

That was a bone of contention in our group at one time. Since martial arts only cost 4-5 pts and Martial Strike gives you the equivalent of +2d6 (8pts) and +2 DCV (10pts) a PC is getting 18pts worth of power for only 4pts. The end result was just an acceptance of the MA skill for what it is.

[Kraven Kor]

Re: What is the advantage of buying Combat Skill Levels vs OCV?

 

Yes, Martial Strike (or any maneuver with +/- DCV) will affect the DCV vs. any attacks until your next phase.

 

Similarly, +OCV will affect all attacks if applicable. But when doing multiple maneuvers you get the lowest bonus (or worst penalty) to all the attacks. Let's say you multi-attack with Martial Strike, Defensive Strike, and Offensive Strike. All three will get -1 OCV, and you would only get +1 DCV (the worst modifiers of the three attacks, coming from Offensive Strike.) So if you have "+1 with HTH combat" and apply it to OCV, it would affect all three of those attacks. But if you had "+1 with Martial Strike" then only the Martial Strike would receive the bonus.

 

My confusion is that "+1 with All Combat" is 10 points, equivalent to buying both OCV and DCV so my impression was that CSL's in 6E were +1 to OCV and DCV both unless otherwise specified:

 

+1 OCV with a single attack is not even an option under CSL's in HD6 - but it matches up to the cost of +1 OCV at a -2 "severely limited" limitation (5 / 3 = 1.666x rounds up to 2)

[randian]

Re: What is the advantage of buying Combat Skill Levels vs OCV?

 

My confusion is that "+1 with All Combat" is 10 points' date=' equivalent to buying [i']both OCV and DCV[/i] so my impression was that CSL's in 6E were +1 to OCV and DCV both unless otherwise specified:

No, Combat Levels in 6E are still +1 to one thing, they're just overpriced. I wouldn't buy any combat level in 6E bigger than 5 points. If I wanted the equivalent of all-combat levels I'd get an OCV/DCV multipower with variable slots, for a cost of 7 points per virtual "level", 8 per with a +damage slot. Happily, the same as the old 3rd-5th all-combat levels.

 

I don't know why you can't buy +1 OCV with a single attack in HD6, because those levels are standard in 6E1.

[ghost-angel]

Re: What is the advantage of buying Combat Skill Levels vs OCV?

 

I don't know why you can't buy +1 OCV with a single attack in HD6' date=' because those levels are standard in 6E1.[/quote']

 

Uh, yes you can. CSL w any single attack, 2 points. Default selection.

[Balabanto]

Re: What is the advantage of buying Combat Skill Levels vs OCV?

 

No, Combat Levels in 6E are still +1 to one thing, they're just overpriced. I wouldn't buy any combat level in 6E bigger than 5 points. If I wanted the equivalent of all-combat levels I'd get an OCV/DCV multipower with variable slots, for a cost of 7 points per virtual "level", 8 per with a +damage slot. Happily, the same as the old 3rd-5th all-combat levels.

 

I don't know why you can't buy +1 OCV with a single attack in HD6, because those levels are standard in 6E1.

 

Even at twelve points, Overall Skill levels are NOT overpriced. You get plus one to your skill rolls out of combat, too. Nothing is more unbalancing to a game than "I am good at EVERYTHING man" Plus, look carefully at Overall Levels. You can add them to any roll you want. EGO rolls. DMCV. Dive For Cover! Every overall level you buy totally pays for itself. Of all the things I've ever limited in my home game, this was one of the big winners.

[Querysphinx]

Re: What is the advantage of buying Combat Skill Levels vs OCV?

 

Overall levels are fun. My fantyasy hero character is a plain and simple clerk. Since I don't have to worry about being a combat monster, I have been free to throw points at overall levels defined as "Not to be underestimated." If it were not for my own well- documented inability to roll anything less than 16 on on 3D6 (Seven times in a row in the last session!) he'd be pretty effective.

[pinecone]

Re: What is the advantage of buying Combat Skill Levels vs OCV?

 

So was just curious if there was an advantage to buying CSL's vs OCV levels. In my case it would be used for a multi power and after reading in the book it would end up being for a large group of attacks (more than 3 different attacks in the multi power) so would cost 5pts per rank the same as if I was buying OCV.

 

In general CSL's are inferior to stats, But CSL's have some advantage in that they can all be stacked in an unballenced way, ie "All my levels on OCV!" (or DCV...) and that might be a function that justifies purchase....

[Blue]

Re: What is the advantage of buying Combat Skill Levels vs OCV?

 

"Advantage" never really figured into it for me. It has always been about what is appropriate; some people just aren't fast but they're accurate.

 

Let's say I have a sniper. He might be highly skilled at aiming but he's not known for being quick on the draw, so CSLs figure in well.

[pinecone]

Re: What is the advantage of buying Combat Skill Levels vs OCV?

 

"Advantage" never really figured into it for me. It has always been about what is appropriate; some people just aren't fast but they're accurate.

 

Let's say I have a sniper. He might be highly skilled at aiming but he's not known for being quick on the draw, so CSLs figure in well.

 

Well in 6Th you'd buy OCV the stat......