SusAn

[Sean Waters]

One thing that is surprisingly messy to build in Hero is suspended animation. You can sort of build it with Simulate Death and various Life Support components, but it still does not work that well – if, for example, you have been injected with a metabolic poison (built as a constant or damage over time attack) then you will still take damage over time. You can still bleed to death. It takes time and preparation to do.

I need a ‘power’ version. I was halfway through designing a custom power when I realised that I can potentially ‘do’ suspended animation with a multiform.

Now it is obviously expected that, when you Multiform, you are changing into another character – but I can not see anything that actually requires that, and there is some precedent in that it has been clarification that the 'Summon' power can create inanimate objects. Hero does not provide cost rules for building inanimate objects, but it does provide cost rules for vehicles.

If you changed into, for example, a Size 0 vehicle, zeroed all the characteristics except Body, which you increase to 20, then buy 20 hardened impenetrable ED and ED resistant protection, you multiform into a very tough inanimate object, and an object at that which only costs 1 point to multiform into as the cost of the vehicle is 0 points. You effectively multiform into an Adamantium statue of yourself – or an Impervium Cube, or somesuch. Obviously you could simply change into something less tough – like a normal corpse – but it will cost the same.

Now you have a problem in that, as an inanimate object, you can not change back into your normal form, because you can not take any actions. That is easy enough to get around with a trigger to change back, working on a time delay or a triggering event (eg contact with fresh body fluids from a member of royalty in the case of Sleeping Beauty).

Now you have something that looks like this:

Suspended Animation: Multiform (0 Character Points in the most expensive form), Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset; +1/4) (1 Active Points – minimum cost for a power)

I’m happy enough that it is legal (unless someone can tell me otherwise) but it seems far too cheap for something that is potentially so useful. I think it is because there is something of a lacuna in that the rules do not anticipate you spending points to build simple inanimate objects of this sort. Is there a better way though?

Thoughts?

[BobGreenwade]

Re: SusAn

 

Perhaps you could take the "Zone Travel" option for Extra-Dimensional Movement from The Ultimate Speedster (and The Ultimate Mentalist) and turn it around backwards, calling it (for example) the Suspension Zone. Something like:

 

Suspended Animation: Extra-Dimensional Movement (any physical location in the Suspension Zone, but limited to the location corresponding to the character's location in the normal-speed world) Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset; +1/4) (27 Active Points); Leaves Incapacitated And Helpless Body Behind (-1), No Conscious Control (return requires a specific action by another party; -1). Total cost: 9 points.

 

Of course you'd have to adjust things -- especially the second Limitation -- to fit your conception, but that should be a good start.

[prestidigitator]

Re: SusAn

 

Hmm. I've always thought of it as near complete Life Support (longevity and eat/drink, possibly with others like breathing and diseases depending on the type of game) with things like Extra Time, Concentration: 0 DCV throughout, and at least a little bit of No Conscious Control depending on how much can go wrong before you're supposed to wake up. If you do it as a 0-point Multiform, you're going to be awfully easy to break/poison/bleed or whatever you were thinking of (I didn't quite follow the reasoning and whether you actually wanted such vulnerabilities to be present, but with the Multiform you can bet they are going to be).

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: SusAn

 

Sell your BODY down to 0, then buy it back up to whatever in a Multipower with two slots: one is the BODY, the other is a 0d6 Healing with Resurrection and potentially a Trigger (whatever the condition is). Or maybe the BODY itself has a Trigger, and it's just the one slot. I'm still working on that...

[Escafarc]

Re: SusAn

 

Perhaps you could take the "Zone Travel" option for Extra-Dimensional Movement from The Ultimate Speedster (and The Ultimate Mentalist) and turn it around backwards, calling it (for example) the Suspension Zone. Something like:

 

Suspended Animation: Extra-Dimensional Movement (any physical location in the Suspension Zone, but limited to the location corresponding to the character's location in the normal-speed world) Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset; +1/4) (27 Active Points); Leaves Incapacitated And Helpless Body Behind (-1), No Conscious Control (return requires a specific action by another party; -1). Total cost: 9 points.

 

Of course you'd have to adjust things -- especially the second Limitation -- to fit your conception, but that should be a good start.

 

It hasn't come up yet in any of my games but I was thinking of going with EDM version myself. The various Advantages/Limitation would depend on the Campagn though.

[Susano]

Re: SusAn

 

I was thinking EDM would be the way to go. You're being moved into a dimension of time, really. Time outside that of the regular flow of time.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: SusAn

 

I was thinking EDM would be the way to go. You're being moved into a dimension of time' date=' really. Time outside that of the regular flow of time.[/quote']

 

[insert Twilight Zone theme]

 

EDM, to a not-specifically-controllable point in the future (this counts as one location, considered No Conscious Control, effects only), perhaps with a Limitation that the character's body may be subject to taking BODY from Normal and Killing attacks while in transit unless otherwise protected.

[Escafarc]

Re: SusAn

 

[insert Twilight Zone theme]

 

EDM, to a not-specifically-controllable point in the future (this counts as one location, considered No Conscious Control, effects only), perhaps with a Limitation that the character's body may be subject to taking BODY from Normal and Killing attacks while in transit unless otherwise protected.

 

You could add the Must Coss Intervening Time Limitation like to the one from Teleportation.

[Sean Waters]

Re: SusAn

 

I'm always a bit wary of EDM, it being a travel power and all. I know it gets used as a catch-all, but it always seems to ring my alarm bells. Still it may be a better option than multiform. Traveling forward through time seems plausable, with the 'if what you leave behind is destroyed, you can't come back' proviso. From your point of view the travel will be instant, but everyone else is going round the long way.

 

(prestidigitator: RE Multipower you are not going to bleed/suffer the effects of poison etc because you are no longer a human: you can make an ASTONISHINGLY tough inanimate object for 0 points using a vehicle template, and multiform into that)

 

The other thing I'd considered was building a resurrection power with the side effect that you die when you use it (so you actually are a corpse, which later gets better). That might be the most literal interpretation.

 

EDM (time travel) seems the best bet. What you leave behind is not actually 'you', but controls where (and if) you emerge from the journey. Hmm. That's definitely do-able.

 

Suspended Animation: Extra-Dimensional Movement (Related Group of Points in Time, Single Physical Location Other Than Starting Location) (47 Active Points); Leave a beautiful corpse Power loses about half of its effectiveness (Leaves behind a corpse that does not deteriorate or change 'naturally' but can be damaged. If damaged, you emerge from your journey with that damage.; -1) 23 Real Points

The 'related group of points in time allows you to set any future date to revice, and the 'single physical location other than starting location means that you revive where your body is, even if it has been moved in the interim

[prestidigitator]

Re: SusAn

 

Ah. I see. Well, why not just Multiform into a Computer that has no body at all and can't really be, "killed," then? I've never really liked characters using Multiform to change into things that just happen to have character sheets but are not characters. If you really want a character that doesn't bleed, the correct way to do it is with an Automaton Power. The correct way to have a character that is immune to poison is with Life Support. Maybe a huge Side Effect: Catatonic would be suitable if things like Concentration: 0 DCV throughout don't seem to be sufficient. If you really want to be nearly invulnerable, perhaps a form of EDM or Damage Reduction or even Desolidification would be appropriate.

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: SusAn

 

For something like a stasis field where the flow of time is actually slowed down XDM is probably the way to go. But for things like cryonic suspension that wouldn't prevent outside forces from acting on the body, I'd probably model it as Life Support: Longevity, Self-Contained Breathing, Does Not Eat (and whatever other Immunities and Safe Environments are needed depending on the SFX) with a Side Effect that you're incapable of action until it expires. Perhaps with a lengthy Continuing Charge, or the No Conscious Control Limitation.

[Ice9]

Re: SusAn

 

It's a bit tricky, because for the purpose of some effects (poison, diseases, bleeding, psychic compulsion), XDM (to the future) seems the most appropriate - the effect is not cancelled, but neither does it have any effect while in stasis. After the stasis ends, however, the effect will resume as it left off, even if the originator is long dead.

 

For other effects however (slow disintegration, angry badger gnawing on you, magic binding spell), they should either continue dealing damage or else become inapplicable, but in any case they shouldn't still be happening if you wake up 100 years later. And that would be more suited to a Multiform or set of defense powers.

[Sean Waters]

Re: SusAn

 

The advantage of Time Travel EDM is that it is, subjectively, instant: you really are leaving one time and arriving at another. Depending on how ongoing damage effects that you may be subject to are built, that may enable you to escape their effects, although some effects should still be going, depending on the sfx of the SusAn. I'm not quite clear whether time in Hero is subjective or absolute, but I'd guess I'd treat it as subjective for some Uncontrolled or Damage Over Time powers.

 

Confusing example: if you build a Damage Over Time attack and define it as napalm, EDM to the future would mean that the attack continues in the present, burning your body. If the body is completely destroyed then you may not be able to reanimate in the future, depending on the SusAn build.

 

Arguably, however, EDM is no different from any other travel power: forget the suspended animation sfx: if you are covered in napalm and use EDM to move to a different dimension (say Earth to Asgard) you would STILL BE ON FIRE when you arrived. Dimensionally travelling through time should be no different.

 

What does make a difference here is the sfx: your body stays behind - not REALLY, of course. Mechanically you disappear from the present and reappear in the future. The Body is just a placemarker to justify appropriate limitations.

 

I think this one is a judgement call, but bear in mind that using EDM shouldn't allow you to escape damage that you should be taking.

 

One interesting special case is this:

 

A persistent constant attack. You get hit. You jump to the future. In the future the attacker is out of range. The attack stops. You jump back to the present, to the same moment that you left. Potentially EDM could be used as a constant power breaker in that instance.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: SusAn

 

Unless a character can force someone into suspended animation as as an attack, or enter suspended animation under his/her own power, it seems like a plot element to me. I wouldn't bother to write it up other than to describe the effect in a text block and give some vague stats to the machine (DEF and SIZ). If the character has it as an attack, I would go with Transform. If they had it as a power I might go Multiform, but not EDM. I would probably just have them buy simulate death and the other powers (Life Support and such) saying that they only worked when the character was simulating death.

 

By the way, who says that the suspended form would be hardy? I think it would be fragile, unless the coffin or stasis chamber was built with a lot of DEF.

[GAZZA]

Re: SusAn

 

Off hand, I can think of a few ways to do it. Extradimensional movement is very elegant, and I would be definitely inclined to that myself.

 

However, here's a way that I don't think has been mentioned yet: Regeneration (or Healing), Able to Resurrect, and then either Trigger (by deactivating cryostasis) or Time Delay (if you are suspending animation for a given time period). That way you are literally dead, and you come back to life (which is, arguably, a reasonable way to represent the effect). The restrictions on this form of Regeneration state that you must define a reasonably common way to stop it; "dismembering the corpse" would be one, as of course would be not correctly triggering the power.

[Sean Waters]

Re: SusAn

 

Unless a character can force someone into suspended animation as as an attack, or enter suspended animation under his/her own power, it seems like a plot element to me. I wouldn't bother to write it up other than to describe the effect in a text block and give some vague stats to the machine (DEF and SIZ). If the character has it as an attack, I would go with Transform. If they had it as a power I might go Multiform, but not EDM. I would probably just have them buy simulate death and the other powers (Life Support and such) saying that they only worked when the character was simulating death.

 

By the way, who says that the suspended form would be hardy? I think it would be fragile, unless the coffin or stasis chamber was built with a lot of DEF.

 

I think 'actually being dead for a while' could be quite useful - it is the ultimate in playing possum, and allows you to escape enemies in ways that they may not be able to easily predict - at least the first time. You would be immune to a lot of stuff, including, Mind Scan, so could be virtually undetectable.

 

It may well be that it would make a more interesting villain power than hero power - after all not a lot of players will want their characters spending some time dead, for tax reasons or otherwise.

 

As to how hardy the suspended form is - well that depends on build: as EDM time travel, the 'body' is not accessible at all - it goes with you - so what is left behind allows you to justify certain cost limitations.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: SusAn

 

Well, under Fifth Edition I usually wrote up "stasis effects" as Suppress BODY, with linked Life Support. Under those rules a character brought to negative BODY by Suppress would appear to be dead, but would immediately "return to life" (recover full BODY) once the Suppress is shut off.

[Sean Waters]

Re: SusAn

 

That worked well with something of a lacuna in the rules, and one that was always there to mitigate the effect of suppress: in 6e I don;t think it works the same way.

 

The top ways so far have been EDM to the future (with or without leaving remains that can be interfered with, or 'actually' dying and then resurrecting. Either would seem to accomplish the same end although there would certainly be differences in how they worked.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: SusAn

 

Intgeresting, people were talking about suppress BODY to simulate death (nice lateral thinking there) but I was wondering if suppress SPD might not be a way to go. Often environmental effects like drowning inflict damage based on the SPD of the character. If the SPD is zero, such stuff does not happen. It makes sense (in a twisted kind of way) that the character has no SPD and so does not bleed, or drown. That needs to be extended to poisons such that they stop working until the SPD rises again. So a suppress plus an adder to make it SusAn?? Another option?

 

As an aside, I was wondering why poisons etc were not based on the characters SPD. If you're metabolism is high then you should run through the poison process more quickly as well, and disease. Does that make sense??

 

 

Doc

[GAZZA]

Re: SusAn

 

Unfortunately that wouldn't work. You always drown at a minimum of SPD 2, for example.

[GAZZA]

Re: SusAn

 

As an aside' date=' I was wondering why poisons etc were not based on the characters SPD. If you're metabolism is high then you should run through the poison process more quickly as well, and disease. Does that make sense??[/quote']

Well, SPD doesn't really measure metabolism. If anything, END and REC are the closest equivalents, I'd think - SPD is just how many actions you can take every 12 seconds. If you wanted to, though, you could simulate that with a combination of Vulnerability to poisons and diseases combined with Life Support and appropriate limitations.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: SusAn

 

Haven't looked at the latest rules on this but I always remembered it as lowering to SPD 1, but even so, that is voluntary reduction to SPD 2, not a powered reduction to SPD 0. :-)