Ragitsu Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 So far, I have the following in mind: Camera with extremely high resolution, and a variety of imaging modes (like night vision). Long lasting fuel source. Computer interface that has an up-to-date map of the surrounding city, as well an advanced radio (but what will make it advanced?), and database with relevant tactical data. What other biggies should be in there? Is laser communication worth considering? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 Re: Barring weaponry, what's in a slightly futuristic [40+ years] APC? you have yet to name something new that is not already in APC's and tanks and in some cases on our soldiers already Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 Re: Barring weaponry, what's in a slightly futuristic [30+ years] APC? I'd expect an APC in 2051 to be able to drive itself, operate fully submerged, and have a wide array of defensive equipment. The latter would include active camouflage, active antiprojectile systems (lasers?), and a very sophisticated ECM suite. It might have a robotic arm for urban use or for righting itself. It would almost certainly run on tracks. Actual cloaking devices are a possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragitsu Posted January 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 Re: Barring weaponry, what's in a slightly futuristic [30+ years] APC? I'd expect an APC in 2051 to be able to drive itself' date=' operate fully submerged, and have a wide array of defensive equipment. The latter would include active camouflage, active antiprojectile systems (lasers?), and a very sophisticated ECM suite. It might have a robotic arm for urban use or for righting itself. It would almost certainly run on tracks. Actual cloaking devices are a possibility.[/quote'] Tiny lasers for Point Defense, you mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 Re: Barring weaponry, what's in a slightly futuristic [30+ years] APC? I'm not sure about tracks, especially if it is to have an urban role Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier Onassiss Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 Re: Barring weaponry, what's in a slightly futuristic [30+ years] APC? Tiny lasers for Point Defense' date=' you mean?[/quote'] Or maybe not so tiny. If it has a decent-size laser for one of its main weapon systems, then an advanced radar could be used to detect incoming projectiles and aim the laser. This could provide point defense not only for the APC, but for other important targets close to it. You wouldn't even have to traverse the laser -- just the focusing mirror, which would speed up reaction times. I think some of the most important equipment for the APC might not be on the vehicle itself, but linked to it via satellite -- so I'd expect to see a satellite uplink. Then your APC is hooked into sensors all over the battlefield, and maybe even real-time orbital recon, for a true "God's-eye" view of the situation. Live sensor feeds from all the soldiers assigned to the vehicle (think Aliens here) would be another possibility. A few robots to assist the troops could be carried: to provide mobile fire support, or just carry a lot of equipment which would otherwise slow down the squad. The radio will use state-of-the-art encryption and frequency hopping to keep communications secure. Buy HRRP with lots of Concealment or maybe even Invisible Power Effects. This may already exist, but in the coming decades it will continue to improve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapsedgamer Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 Re: Barring weaponry, what's in a slightly futuristic [30+ years] APC? snip...I think some of the most important equipment for the APC might not be on the vehicle itself' date=' but linked to it via satellite -- so I'd expect to see a satellite uplink. Then your APC is hooked into sensors all over the battlefield, and maybe even real-time orbital recon, for a true "God's-eye" view of the situation. Live sensor feeds from all the soldiers assigned to the vehicle (think [i']Aliens[/i] here) would be another possibility. A few robots to assist the troops could be carried: to provide mobile fire support, or just carry a lot of equipment which would otherwise slow down the squad. I was thinking of a rack of folding eagle-sized drones for recon, remote target designation for the APC's fire-and-forget missles, and antipersonnel purposes. Add to that a couple of RC-car-sized bomb disposal/minesweeper bots. Just how "smart" they would be is up for debate, but I can really see a real life version of that old B-movie Screamers eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundog Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 Re: Barring weaponry, what's in a slightly futuristic [30+ years] APC? I'd have serious doubts about laser point-defence in the 20-40 year range, at least on land vehicles (ships are, as always, another matter). The problems of juicing a laser sufficient to nail an incoming PGM or RPG, especially in a dusty or otherwise technically difficult environment, plus a sufficiently agile mount, PLUS offensive weaponry and troop carrying capacity...and that's not taking into account maintenance on the notoriously finicky high-powered laser, either. APCs that are hanger queens are not going to be purchased. You could get much the same effect by mounting a minigun in a cupola on top of the vehicle. Any system capable of laying a laser on an incoming round should be able to do the same for a rotary gun. I'd agree with the satellite uplink, but I wouldn't rely on it for communications. Sats are too easy to pop. Instead, the APC can serve as a communications node for the squad it carries, with low-power microwave communications to other APCs and MBTs working in the same area. Those recon drones could work double duty as relays for avoiding interference from terrain features (such as hills). One feature not present on most modern APCs would, I suspect, be pure camera vision. The UN provision against them notwithstanding, blinder weapons (low-powered lasers, hgh-energy flash grenades) are going to be a threat. Cameras can be hardened aganst flash - the human eye, more difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapsedgamer Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 Re: Barring weaponry, what's in a slightly futuristic [30+ years] APC? I'd have serious doubts about laser point-defence in the 20-40 year range, at least on land vehicles (ships are, as always, another matter). The problems of juicing a laser sufficient to nail an incoming PGM or RPG, especially in a dusty or otherwise technically difficult environment, plus a sufficiently agile mount, PLUS offensive weaponry and troop carrying capacity...and that's not taking into account maintenance on the notoriously finicky high-powered laser, either. APCs that are hanger queens are not going to be purchased. You could get much the same effect by mounting a minigun in a cupola on top of the vehicle. Any system capable of laying a laser on an incoming round should be able to do the same for a rotary gun. How about an easily replacable mount of pre-packed Metal Storm projectiles. No moving parts. You just slide another cansiter into the mount and use the vehicles electronics, or a backup battery, to actuate it. Use the variable rate of fire for multiple roles: anti-personnel or point defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Weapon Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 Re: Barring weaponry, what's in a slightly futuristic [30+ years] APC? Well here's a thought, multiple hi-resolution, highly secure and undetectable video links from each soldier similar to the APC in "Aliens". Why does each soldier have to rely on his own interpretation of the data? If the camera in the front of his helment (or the back) can see it then his CO can see it back in the APC. He can then instruct the soldier by voice, images on his HUD or scrolling text. In fact the CO and even some of his staff could rewind and review combat data while the combat is going if the soldiers missed something. For instance if a sniper attack the soldiers go to ground and logically aren't where they can see the sniper. But reviewing the video from just before the attack could show where he is. Then the CO or other people back in the APC could send visual(s) to the troops showing where the sniper was caught on camera with a big red circle around him and grid references based on the position and direction of the camera(s). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Weapon Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 Re: Barring weaponry, what's in a slightly futuristic [30+ years] APC? I was thinking of a rack of folding eagle-sized drones for recon' date=' remote target designation for the APC's fire-and-forget missles, and antipersonnel purposes. Add to that a couple of RC-car-sized bomb disposal/minesweeper bots. Just how "smart" they would be is up for debate, but I can really see a real life version of that old B-movie Screamers eventually.[/quote'] If it has all those drones it's hardly and Armoured _Personel_ Carrier though is it? Which raises the question of whether there will be APCs. Do we need soldiers on the battlefield at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Weapon Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 Re: Barring weaponry, what's in a slightly futuristic [30+ years] APC? Or maybe not so tiny. If it has a decent-size laser for one of its main weapon systems, then an advanced radar could be used to detect incoming projectiles and aim the laser. This could provide point defense not only for the APC, but for other important targets close to it. You wouldn't even have to traverse the laser -- just the focusing mirror, which would speed up reaction times. I think some of the most important equipment for the APC might not be on the vehicle itself, but linked to it via satellite -- so I'd expect to see a satellite uplink. Then your APC is hooked into sensors all over the battlefield, and maybe even real-time orbital recon, for a true "God's-eye" view of the situation. Live sensor feeds from all the soldiers assigned to the vehicle (think Aliens here) would be another possibility. A few robots to assist the troops could be carried: to provide mobile fire support, or just carry a lot of equipment which would otherwise slow down the squad. The radio will use state-of-the-art encryption and frequency hopping to keep communications secure. Buy HRRP with lots of Concealment or maybe even Invisible Power Effects. This may already exist, but in the coming decades it will continue to improve. With the radio, you're right almost undetectable radio does exist, it's basically below the ambient level of radiation and you send the signal over multiple frequencies. Statistically it's unlikely that all of the frequencies will randomly be higher at the same time so if you know the frequencies used you can detect the signal statistically. But unless you know where to look it just looks like there's slightly more than average energy in this frequency at this microsecond. Or at least that's how I think it works, I'll have to check with my friend who works in defence science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundog Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 Re: Barring weaponry, what's in a slightly futuristic [30+ years] APC? How about an easily replacable mount of pre-packed Metal Storm projectiles. No moving parts. You just slide another cansiter into the mount and use the vehicles electronics, or a backup battery, to actuate it. Use the variable rate of fire for multiple roles: anti-personnel or point defense. Perfect. Lighter and more reliable than a rotary. I would want an automatic or shielded method of reloading, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 Re: Barring weaponry, what's in a slightly futuristic [30+ years] APC? I'm not sure about tracks' date=' especially if it is to have an urban role[/quote'] My understanding is that one of the big lessons of Baghdad operations is that tracks are the preferred urban mode of wartime transport, as they allow pivoting and traversal of rubble. Wheels give a higher top speed but high speed just isn't needed in the back alleys of a partially smashed third world city. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 Re: Barring weaponry, what's in a slightly futuristic [30+ years] APC? Well here's a thought' date=' multiple hi-resolution, highly secure and undetectable video links from each soldier similar to the APC in "Aliens". Why does each soldier have to rely on his own interpretation of the data? If the camera in the front of his helment (or the back) can see it then his CO can see it back in the APC. He can then instruct the soldier by voice, images on his HUD or scrolling text. In fact the CO and even some of his staff could rewind and review combat data while the combat is going if the soldiers missed something. For instance if a sniper attack the soldiers go to ground and logically aren't where they can see the sniper. But reviewing the video from just before the attack could show where he is. Then the CO or other people back in the APC could send visual(s) to the troops showing where the sniper was caught on camera with a big red circle around him and grid references based on the position and direction of the camera(s).[/quote'] I believe we're already getting this in current operations, with drones and cams. In fact it's too good, because there is a tendency to micromanage the warfighter's every move from the CP, which in some cases is not even in the same country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapsedgamer Posted January 30, 2011 Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 Re: Barring weaponry, what's in a slightly futuristic [30+ years] APC? Well here's a thought' date=' multiple hi-resolution, highly secure and undetectable video links from each soldier similar to the APC in "Aliens". Why does each soldier have to rely on his own interpretation of the data? If the camera in the front of his helment (or the back) can see it then his CO can see it back in the APC. He can then instruct the soldier by voice, images on his HUD or scrolling text. In fact the CO and even some of his staff could rewind and review combat data while the combat is going if the soldiers missed something. For instance if a sniper attack the soldiers go to ground and logically aren't where they can see the sniper. But reviewing the video from just before the attack could show where he is. Then the CO or other people back in the APC could send visual(s) to the troops showing where the sniper was caught on camera with a big red circle around him and grid references based on the position and direction of the camera(s).[/quote'] I have a distaste for this. Probably because I have seen Aliens too many times, and we all know how well this model worked there. To me, there is no substitute for having someone on the ground with the group making the call on most things. If it has all those drones it's hardly and Armoured _Personel_ Carrier though is it? Which raises the question of whether there will be APCs. Do we need soldiers on the battlefield at all? APC's are not just straight transport anymore. They have a lot of combat support ability even now. Bradley Fighting Vehicles pack quite a wallop with a 25mm chaingun and antitank missles standard . If you think of the kind of firepower and technology the individual soldier will have access to, it only makes sense that the vehicles will eveolve along the same lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Re: Barring weaponry, what's in a slightly futuristic [30+ years] APC? My understanding is that one of the big lessons of Baghdad operations is that tracks are the preferred urban mode of wartime transport' date=' as they allow pivoting and traversal of rubble. Wheels give a higher top speed but high speed just isn't needed in the back alleys of a partially smashed third world city.[/quote']but they completely destroy the surface Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Re: Barring weaponry, what's in a slightly futuristic [30+ years] APC? So? It's a war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapsedgamer Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Re: Barring weaponry, what's in a slightly futuristic [30+ years] APC? but they completely destroy the surface So? It's a war. I basically agree with the Old Man here, with the caveat that you might be need the surface to move your own men and supplies quickly at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robot_Nixon Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Re: Barring weaponry, what's in a slightly futuristic [30+ years] APC? My understanding is that one of the big lessons of Baghdad operations is that tracks are the preferred urban mode of wartime transport' date=' as they allow pivoting and traversal of rubble. Wheels give a higher top speed but high speed just isn't needed in the back alleys of a partially smashed third world city.[/quote'] I've heard the exact opposite. The Strykers (wheeled) are more mobile and quicker to the area. Much less to maintain than the bradley and the troops like it. There have been some reports of survivability vs. the largest IEDs, but we're talking about 30 years from now to make a wheeled vehicle as tough as a tracked. overland tracked may win, but wheeled rules the pavement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Re: Barring weaponry, what's in a slightly futuristic [30+ years] APC? how about surface effect vehicles (steared by "land rudders") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapsedgamer Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Re: Barring weaponry, what's in a slightly futuristic [30+ years] APC? how about surface effect vehicles (steared by "land rudders") Those sound a little too finicky for rough use to me. Jet engines with intakes at or near ground level in crappy conditions. I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapsedgamer Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Re: Barring weaponry, what's in a slightly futuristic [30+ years] APC? I've heard the exact opposite. The Strykers (wheeled) are more mobile and quicker to the area. Much less to maintain than the bradley and the troops like it. There have been some reports of survivability vs. the largest IEDs, but we're talking about 30 years from now to make a wheeled vehicle as tough as a tracked. overland tracked may win, but wheeled rules the pavement. I suspect that the tracked would just be that much tougher, and I hate to think about what would replace the current main battle tanks. Mobile rail gun platforms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Re: Barring weaponry, what's in a slightly futuristic [30+ years] APC? I suspect that the tracked would just be that much tougher' date=' and I hate to think about what would replace the current main battle tanks. Mobile rail gun platforms?[/quote'] I sort of picture MBTs as trending lighter, with a combination of active armor arrangement and active point defenses replacing the heavy layered stuff currently in service. For armament though, it's hard to beat the smoothbore 120mm gun. Maybe in 40 years someone will make an autoloader that works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egyptoid Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Re: Barring weaponry, what's in a slightly futuristic [40+ years] APC? AI and/or hologram helper programs, not unlike the doctor from Trek. they can direct the soldiers to do first aid, repair the vehicle, maintain the weapons, and speak foreign languages, etc Sarge: Hey Friday, where's the nearest watering hole? AI Friday: The nearest operational tavern is two hundred sixty kilometers behind us at Camp November, and The nearest cistern of actual water appears to be 70 meters northeast of our present location. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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