Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

[PamelaIsley]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

You hate the Champions U villain times or villain teams as a concept?

 

Villain teams as a concept. I like a lot of the members of Champions villain teams (Mentalla, Gigaton, Morgaine, Sunburst come to mind).

[phoenix240]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

Villain teams as a concept. I like a lot of the members of Champions villain teams (Mentalla' date=' Gigaton, Morgaine, Sunburst come to mind).[/quote']

 

Oh, okay. Thanks.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

Villain teams as a concept. I like a lot of the members of Champions villain teams (Mentalla' date=' Gigaton, Morgaine, Sunburst come to mind).[/quote']

 

That's odd. I feel just the opposite. I love a good villain team. Now, I don't like some of the ones in the official CU, but you can always season the published stuff to taste.

 

I love Eurostar, The Ultimates, GRAB, and the Crimelords. I'm not fond of Sunburst or Cirque Sinister. The Brain Trust and The Destroyers need a little tweaking to my mind.

 

Foxbat has always left me cold, even from his early incarnations, but I tend to play Bronze or Modern Age games, and he is definitely Silver Age silly. I wonder if anyone has ever done a genuinely evil version of Foxbat. It might be an interesting one-shot. Sort of like Owlman to Batman in the DC Universe.

[PamelaIsley]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

I'll blog about villain teams or start another thread. I don't want to derail this one. I like the characters that make up a lot of those teams, but I find the idea of long-term, steady supervillain teams to be somewhat silly. Villain teams are best as one-shot groups like the Injustice League.

[phoenix240]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

I'll blog about villain teams or start another thread. I don't want to derail this one. I like the characters that make up a lot of those teams' date=' but I find the idea of long-term, steady supervillain teams to be somewhat silly. Villain teams are best as one-shot groups like the Injustice League.[/quote']

 

I am curious to hear your thoughts on the subject. I'll start a thread if that's all right.

 

Here it is

[Guest Goradin]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

I think this book is easily the most useful of the three villain books. You can use the solo npcs as mooks and they are handy when you don't have many players. I did get the PDF on this one but I want a hard copy. PDFs are cool when you need to print and the like for a game but reading them isn't as comfy as reading a book. While I can make my own toons these are quick and easier to use with little effort. It's very helpful to us 9-5er's who game.

 

I understand the CON season takes up a lot of their time. It's over largely, so that should not be a factor anymore. I also appreciate that we get updates here but I think that any good company would do so. I don't think it's a matter of privelege but rather curteousy to the customer. I have had the PDF since 12/7/2010 and I think that ten months is plenty of patience, Tech. However, everyone's view of patience is different.

[PamelaIsley]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

I totally agree Goradin.

 

The solo book is by far the most useful one and it's a shame it is in such a grim limbo state.

[teh bunneh]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

How many times can they keep saying the same thing? "This is a really expensive book to print, and it ties up a lot of our capital. We are a small company and these are tough economic times, so laying out that kind of cash up front is tough for us (and sadly, our printers want the money up front). As soon as we are able to, we'll have the books out. We're as unhappy about the situation as you are."

 

I hope I'm not coming across as too harsh. Maybe grousing about it online makes you feel better, but it ain't going to make the necessary money for the printers magically appear in their pockets. It's just a simple fact of economics -- small companies sometimes need to create buffers before they can make large capital investments. I want to see the book too, but a full-color, hardback, glossy-paper book is a large capital investment.

[PamelaIsley]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

That is a bit harsh. The August 15 post by Darren Watts is the first I heard of the specific situation and he said it would be a matter of weeks (something that has turned out to not be true). I hardly think asking about this is an enormously rude thing to do. Asking a company when its products will be available for customers to purchase and receiving that information really isn't such a privilege. I know the company isn't being malicious, but they have said they de-prioritized it, so its not like there isn't some information that has been provided since this situation started. What is the big deal about asking to receive updates, especially when things have changed?

[Steve]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

I guess one of the reasons I am worried about the fate of this book and others is that I thought the initial reason it was late was due to the printer retooling their operation, which kicked off the backlog. Ten months later the reason it's late is now due to financial decisions that Hero is having to make in allocating resources. I thought selling the Champions Universe IP netted Hero a nice wad of cash, so why is money now such an issue on a book that was finished many months ago?

 

I'm not really expecting an answer on the financial situation of Hero, but I'm worried that the company is in some kind of trouble.

[gojira]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

Probably because if they were smart they stashed most of that money away in a retirement fund.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

Probably because if they were smart they stashed most of that money away in a retirement fund.

 

True. How much longer can anyone earn a living in pen and paper gaming. The economy being what it is, and the industry being what it is.

[TotalerKrieg]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

Well as the OP back in May, its now what Sept. 8th., 4 months later and I still can't get a copy of this book in my hands but I am able to get Star Hero and Champions Beyond, which I now have, it is now going beyond disappointment to pure madness, I am starting to really get upset with this company over this, if you can't print the thing, turn it over to LULU and let it become a POD so we can at least get our hands on it, this is just stupid now. Patients is one thing but the excuses are beginning to run thin.

[Guest Goradin]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

Maybe a black and white version? Most here show clear preference for printed books. I still love HERO and just sold my 4th edition books for DnD today. I am thinking about selling my 3.5 and go total hero system.

[teh bunneh]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

Maybe a black and white version? Most here show clear preference for printed books. I still love HERO and just sold my 4th edition books for DnD today. I am thinking about selling my 3.5 and go total hero system.

 

Sadly, that's not quite as simple as it sounds. You can't really just take a full-color layout and tell the printer "just print that sucker in B&W." It would need to be laid out again in B&W format. All the color art would have to be converted to grayscale. All the color headers would have to be converted to pure black (You don't generally want your headers to be gray). And I'm not sure about Fred, but speaking for myself if I'm asked to do additional work, I like to be paid for it.

 

So while it would be less expensive to print (by a longshot!), I'm not entirely sure it would save much time, and might not actually be cheaper.

 

I'm not trying to make excuses or anything. I don't speak for Hero, and I don't have any access to their financial records. I'm just speculating same as everyone. If they don't have the long-green in their pockets to print the book right away, there's no amount of wishing or hoping or complaining about it online that's going to help. I want to see the books too, and I'd be willing to bet that Steve and Darren want to see them more than all of us combined. But if the problem is one of cash-flow... well, economics is a harsh mistress, and printers want to be paid up front.

[PamelaIsley]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

It isn't just economics. They aren't as committed to this book as others, which is unfortunate since I thought Champions was the flagship and most popular product.

 

Edit: There is another update from Darren Watts in another thread emphasizing this book's second tier status.

[Darren Watts]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

We don't decide a book is "first tier" or "second tier" arbitrarily, PamelaIsley. You guys decide that by what you buy. The Villains books have so far sold decently, but not great, and we would have little reason to think this one would be different from the first two. So yes, we think Star is going to outsell it. Again, we're sorry this decision upsets some of you so much, but there is quite literally nothing I can do about that except put my head down and get Villains 3 out as quickly as we can afford. dw

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

I just want what I want. When books stop arriving on a regular basis. We get nervous, paranoid, and concerned that the books we love may never appear. For some HERO Games and other RPG's are our addiction. Some of us mainline Gaming Books and begin withdrawl when too much time passes between fixes. You Folks are our Dealers, the Updates are our Pushers, and we are your Customers/Addicts.

 

Please post regularily and Sticky a Book Releases Thread.

 

QM, HERO Games addict for 21yrs. (Cause no one likes a quitter)

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

Sticky a Book Releases Thread.

 

This might be a good idea, if only to allow "Where is this book" threads to be referred to the Book Release sticky thread in, say, company questions.

[Steve]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

This might be a good idea' date=' if only to allow "Where is this book" threads to be referred to the Book Release sticky thread in, say, company questions.[/quote']

 

This is a really good idea. With the extremely long delays now happening between the release of a pdf and a printed book, having more information on printing status would be great.

[TotalerKrieg]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

Just another smoke screen to me, more of the same BS! Just print the book already....... I see the Advanced Players guide #2 hit shelves wow really another worthless tome, I need my villains book or some good setting and universe books, but these guides to tell me how to change rules or rework stuff in the game, come on, I GM and can figure that out on my own, I really don't need a book to tell me how to do it, I don't even use the first one I picked up. A good vehicle guide would have made more sense.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

Just another smoke screen to me' date=' more of the same BS! Just print the book already....... I see the Advanced Players guide #2 hit shelves wow really another worthless tome, I need my villains book or some good setting and universe books, but these guides to tell me how to change rules or rework stuff in the game, come on, I GM and can figure that out on my own, I really don't need a book to tell me how to do it, I don't even use the first one I picked up. A good vehicle guide would have made more sense.[/quote']

 

First off, I don't see how APG II being released in .pdf impacts the timing with which CV Vol 3 will be printed. Neither the writers nor the layout staff would have been printing books rather than writing this one or laying it out. Have you seen something to indicate APG II hardcopies exist? If so, please drop in on the thread discussing APG II, since I'm sure those questioning the timimg of hardcopy release would be pleased to know it's out (and Darren would also likely want to be updated, since he's indicated in the last day or so that he doesn't know when it will be printed.

 

Second, a lot of GM's would tell you they don't need villain books or vehicle - they can make their own. In fact, a number of posters have also indicated they won't buy the 6e Villains books because they can just update the 5e character sheets. As well, I suspect players of heroic games are in no great rush to have a third volume of super villains published. I tend to agree that sales of the first two are likely indicative of the sales Hero can expect from the third volume, which seems to be at a level that it's worth printing, but not worth printing in priority to Star Hero.

 

Hero took a chance on APG I that there would be a market for a book of more advanced rules with no artwork. There was. My understanding is that it sold through pretty quickly, leading to the decision that a second APG would be worth doing. APG I gets referenced a lot on the Boards in answer to various questions, so some obviously find it valuable. Your milage may vary - which is fine, but I would expect Hero to prioritize printing based on historical sales, not on anecdotes of what one buyer may or may not be interested in. If a lot of people share your view of APG I, I suspect APG II won't sell nearly as well. Since you bought the villain books and APG I, your purchases would seem to indicate another villain book and another APG carry the same sales prospects. If APG II is prioritized at the printer (a question we have no answer to), I suspect it will be because people who bought APG I and not the first two villain books outnumber those who bought the first two villain books and left APG I on the shelves. Those are the people setting the priority, not those of us (myself and yourself included) who bought both.

[memorax300]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

I think the delay would be easier to take if other books would not be getting more priority than CV3. I can understand Star Hero and to a certain extent Champions Beyond. When it comes to the Book of the empress and the APG II I start to wonder. Chances are I may never look through the BOE or either APGs. It's pretty much guanrateed that the CV will be used by myself and almost everybody else. I'm assuming their will be a Champions Hero series of books coming out. This time around I will not be buying them until I know for sure I can get all three at once. In the of chance the same thing happens again a second time. Not to mention the Hero system equipment guide is still not available in print and now the same thing with Champions Beyond. It is imo quite frutstrating.

[hartm1967]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

So the best solution is to get everyone you know to buy copies of CV 1 and CV 2. Have more people vote with their pocketbooks!

[PamelaIsley]

Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf?

 

I'm done with rule books for this system, so I'm only interested in CV3 and maybe re-done MC and Vibora Bay books. I have no faith I'll ever see the latter two in a format I like and now I'm not very hopeful of ever having CV3. I'm very surprised by some of the books that were done ahead of this and I have much less confidence in the future of the Champions Universe than I did before.