mkultra Posted September 15, 2011 Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf? Are there a lot of people waiting for the bundle or have you purchased the PDF and are just tired of waiting for the hard-cover. I miss the bundles and don't have any patience so I've been getting both as they are released. It's not that I'm cheap but it was nice saving a couple bucks. I remember saving a lot on the 6e1/6e2 book/pdf bundle. Wow, that seemed like a long time ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotalerKrieg Posted September 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf? Second, a lot of GM's would tell you they don't need villain books or vehicle - they can make their own. In fact, a number of posters have also indicated they won't buy the 6e Villains books because they can just update the 5e character sheets. As well, I suspect players of heroic games are in no great rush to have a third volume of super villains published.. Good for them, but I don't have a vast warehouse of 5th edition books to live off of, some of us need these books, if HERO would just do as they intended all would be well, it still has nothing to do with the fact that it leaves a gap in solo villains which I needed to complete my collection and the fact there are some really cool villains in that book. There is no reason APG 2 should have been printed before CV3 anyhow! Then to top it off is the front page splash; "All I’ve done this week is work on Chapter Three of The Book Of The Empress. This is one of the biggest chapters of the book — it covers the Imperial Legions, her vast military machine. I’ve been writing up character sheets for some of her thousands of superhuman soldiers. As a bonus, I’ve included a list of all the villains in Champions Villains, Vols. 2-3." Thats nice so the next book we'll see printed is "The Book of the Empress", that is going to include CV3 character lists WHY!? They haven't even printed the damn book yet! I am not buying one more book until they print CV3, that's a promise....I am on strike until then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PamelaIsley Posted September 15, 2011 Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf? You don't seem to understand the situation. The book is done. There is no more writing, layout, art, or whatever to be completed. Steve Long writing the Book of the Empress doesn't affect CV3's release date at all. Ranting about that makes everyone who is critical of the handling of this book look a bit worse. Also, as someone else pointed out, APG II being released as a PDF doesn't really affect the book either. I'm not sure if APG II has been printed (if so, that's pretty strange since CV3 supposedly was next in the queue), but I don't think so. The release of additional PDFs doesn't mean anything either. They de-prioritized this book in favor of some other (in my opinion, questionable) releases, but if the Champions Universe isn't selling books, then one can almost understand it. I think stopping after book 2 of a 3 book set is a bit inconsiderate (not the word I want to use), but hopefully someday we'll see CV3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memorax300 Posted September 15, 2011 Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf? Imo their is a point being missed. A 2-3 month delay every rpg company has that happen. A 4-6 month delay a little annoying still acceptable. When it starts to hit the one year mark it's not longer acceptable imo. If it was a delay on most or all of the boks being worked then I at least would have no problems. To see other books come out and not see CV3 is very very frustrating and it's not like we were given a date for CV3. After almost waiting an year "its ready when it's ready" quite frankly is not good eniugh anymore. I'm not giving up on HG. I just bought Star Hero yet with respect being told that it's the printers fault and their working on it followed by them being a small company is also not valid anymore. At least for me. We have been patient enough at this point. In any case until CV3 is out I will come and stay informed with the weekly updates yet not purchase anything else until CV3 is published. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted September 15, 2011 Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf? Imo their is a point being missed. A 2-3 month delay every rpg company has that happen. A 4-6 month delay a little annoying still acceptable. When it starts to hit the one year mark it's not longer acceptable imo. If it was a delay on most or all of the boks being worked then I at least would have no problems. To see other books come out and not see CV3 is very very frustrating and it's not like we were given a date for CV3. After almost waiting an year "its ready when it's ready" quite frankly is not good eniugh anymore. I'm not giving up on HG. I just bought Star Hero yet with respect being told that it's the printers fault and their working on it followed by them being a small company is also not valid anymore. At least for me. We have been patient enough at this point. Not to put too fine a point on it, but I'm reluctant to criticize Hero's business judgement, especially with the very limited data available to me (and, to be clear, Hero tells me WAY more than I have any right to access, so I'm not criticizing Hero in this regard). In any case until CV3 is out I will come and stay informed with the weekly updates yet not purchase anything else until CV3 is published. As the consumer, you vote with your dollars - that, to me, is the effective protest for anyone so inclined. For myself, when Hero produces a product I want to buy, I will buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Watts Posted September 15, 2011 Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf? OK, first things first. APG2 almost certainly will be ready before Villains 3. That's because of two reasons- they're not the same printers, and APG2 is *considerably* faster and less expensive to print, being black and white and softcover. We are not "giving up" on Villains 3- we're getting it out as quickly as we are physically able to, and if that's not fast enough for some of you than I'll be sorry to see you go but there's not a thing I can do about it. Color hardcover books and b/w softcover books go different places at different speeds and cost vastly different amounts of money, guys. The only place we had a "choice" was whether to do Star or V3, and we chose Star. Now we can only do the next big book, V3, at the speed we can physically do it at. dw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Watts Posted September 15, 2011 Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf? As the consumer, you vote with your dollars - that, to me, is the effective protest for anyone so inclined. For myself, when Hero produces a product I want to buy, I will buy it. You the consumers of Hero Games already voted with your dollars, by not buying enough of V1 or V2 to make us think V3 was a smarter print project than Star Hero. I'm sorry that upsets some people in this thread so much, but unless you were planning on buying hundreds of copies each of V3 you were outvoted. dw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Watts Posted September 15, 2011 Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf? With the extremely long delays now happening between the release of a pdf and a printed book... I'm disappointed to see that instead of getting credit for getting the PDF out as early as it's available, as a company this is now being seen as a negative and the hardcopy book being "extremely delayed." V3 has been extremely delayed, yes, by circumstances out of our control at first and by the decision to have Star at Gencon later. Apart from that, books have largely been coming out on a pretty regular schedule. If we hold PDF releases to closer to the book being printed, Hero loses (or at least delays) sales and antagonizes PDF customers. How does that help us? dw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted September 15, 2011 Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf? While a lot of comments come to mind, the only one fit to print is: I wonder how many other companies would continue to respond with objectively presented information, as Darren continues to do (rep sent) rather than closing threads and/or banning those expressing negative comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapsedgamer Posted September 15, 2011 Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf? While a lot of comments come to mind, the only one fit to print is: I wonder how many other companies would continue to respond with objectively presented information, as Darren continues to do (rep sent) rather than closing threads and/or banning those expressing negative comments. Mr. Watts has done a very good job here explaining things. Hopefully, we will see the book at some point. I will not say, however, that DOJ has never banned folks or shut down negative threads. To some extent the passion of this discussion seems to have brought out the information that has been shared. I do agree that the tone is a little strident in places, but there is a flip side to this argument. How many other companies are so dependent on such a small, passionate group of dedicated consumers for their continued existence? No one else is buying this stuff but us, so a little give and take is only smart IMO. That being said, I vote that we cut them some slack now that it seems that here is a light at the end of the tunnel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PamelaIsley Posted September 15, 2011 Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf? There's less light at the end of the tunnel now than in mid-August (when the possibility of the book being weeks away was mentioned), but I appreciate the responses, even if they aren't the answer I wanted to hear. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
name_tamer Posted September 15, 2011 Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf? Darren, thanks for the responses. You have provided useful information, and I have stopped waiting for the bundle to come out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Watts Posted September 15, 2011 Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf? It's still weeks, guys. We're working full time here on this (and our other problems, like IPR being hacked this week). I have hopes it will be ready to go very soon, but I've definitely learned not to give out dates before they're 100% set in stone. dw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted September 15, 2011 Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf? Aww, Darren. You're starting to sound like Herb Beas over on BattleTech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PamelaIsley Posted September 15, 2011 Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf? Thank you again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. MID-Nite Posted September 15, 2011 Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf? Well....my only real gripe is they said that said CV3 was low priority due to low sales of the first two volumes...which may or may not be true, but with PDFs available(which are much more profitible to be sure)...the sales of physical copies are of course going to be down. Now...from the sounds of it...they still plan to print it....in which case it's all good(besides the waiting). Now if they cancel the book entirely....THAT would be annoying....as one of the big things they were bragging about when they made the deal with Cryptic is now they'd have the money to do cool things like hardcover full color villain books. That said...I'll play the waiting game right now as it's really out of my control to be honest. At least from my standpoint...Hero gets my money based on their superhero properties...I don't buy any of their other genre books cause I have no interest in them. I guess I'm in the minority "shrugs" Again....simply observations and comments and not meant as a critique by any means... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PamelaIsley Posted September 15, 2011 Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf? Well, it's a minority of two. I am only interested in superhero products as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjandreano Posted September 15, 2011 Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf? I still want a "Mega-Evil" bundle that has all three enemies books and their PDFs together for a discount! Do it Steve! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memorax300 Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf? As long as it comes out before the end of the year that will make me happy. It's weird though that the CV books are not better sellers. I would love to stat out every supervillian I would use. Yet like with other rpgs my free time to do so is what it was. Which is why I buy books such as CV and other similar books for other rpgs. For me anyway CV is a must for anyone running a Champs game. I do hope we will see a superhero version of CV at a later date. They could make it only PDF if it is more cost effective I would buy it. Still I have to wonder if PDFs are starting to hurt their print side of the business. Why buy the book when all you can do is load up the PDF pick a supervillain and print out the ones you need. Kudos to Darren for answering our questions even if it may not be the answer we want to hear. I hope he and the rest of the HG are patient though as I'm sure this issue will pop up again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Watts Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf? PDFs are a vital part of our business, and grow every year as a percentage of our sales. When I say CV1 and 2 are mildly (Mildly!) disappointing in sales it's because I'm comparing them directly to our other Sixth Ed books, which of course also have PDFs. The Villains books so far are the lowest-selling books in the 6th Ed line, 11th and 12th place overall, with Star and Beyond still listed as "incomplete.". I'm not making this stuff up, guys. dw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Goradin Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf? I think this should have been the first book issued out of the set as I said it's the most useful of the three to most people. I love HERO SYSTEM and have nothing but the greatest respect for Steve and Darren. I just hope we see this book as soon as possible. I know it's business. But maybe people didn't buy the villian books because this is the one they wanted? I bought the other two and have PDF's of all three. But it just seems that companies expect, we the gamer to buy the PDF's and the books and in this economy that is not going to happen. I can make my own villians, player's usually like mine better than the books anyways because you have more knowledge of something you have created rather than what you have read. But I love having the option to have a book to toss a villian out for a game after a hard week of work. While I am argubably more proficient at 5th edition still, the best way to learn is create toons. For a while, some hide behind the excuse of quality, I am glad your being honest with us, Darren. Because I as a customer respect that more than anything. Thank you for the honest answer, bro! I will check back every Friday for an update and hope. Thanks for the straight answers! I am still a loyal HERO customer! I been playing HERO since 82. That almost makes me a thirty year fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartm1967 Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf? Perhaps villain books in Champions are what monster books are for D&D. With monster books, only a segment of the game-purchasing D&D audience buys them -- primarily DMs and collectors. Most players have no need or reason to buy monster books. Likewise, villain books are primarily of use to Champions GM -- a segment of those who play HERO. Most players never see a need to buy them. With a genre book like Star Hero, there is something of interest in such a book for GMs and players alike, and anyone who enjoys any form of S-F. Just a theory; I have no special info to back any of this up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PamelaIsley Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf? I think Monster Manuals sell incredibly well, hence the push by Wizards and Pathfinder to put out as many as they can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Watts Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf? And CKC was one of our best-selling 5th Ed titles, which is what spurred us to do the trilogy in the first place. I don't know why some significant minority of Champs buyers didn't buy Villains 1 and 2, I only know that's what happened. dw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 Re: Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains when will it be on the shelf? Speaking just for myself, I bought the PDFs of the CV trilogy because I'm a completist and wanted the few new villains, and any updates to the old villains. I already own all the Fifth Edition villains compendia, containing most of the CV villains. I admit I felt no desire to put out significant money for color hardcover hardcopies just because they're 6E. I actually was long concerned other veteran Champsfiles would feel as I did, and that that would impact sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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