Help

[TheNaga]

What is the best way give a character the ability to shape change into a monstrous form? Right now I have his powers that he has in monstrous fornm as Only In Villain Identity (-1/4).

What is the best way give this character when exposed to sunlight and during the daytime he is weaker and cannot turn into his monstrous form?

[phoenix240]

Re: Help

 

You could use either Shape Change or Multiform. Multiform is pretty complicated if you're new to Hero System. The character's ability to change could also be a Special Effect and no cost anything if it doesn't really benefit him (like hiding his identity).

 

The weakness during the day could be a Physical Disadvantage.

[TheNaga]

Re: Help

 

I new to the Champions. I use to play Heroes Unlimited and Rifts. I wanted the weaknss which occurs in the daytime and sunlight to weaken some of his characteristic such as strength and speed. Would I need to have the powers and abilities the monstrous form he has Linked? I new to the game. Which would be the right sense group for the shape shifting? As a Godling (Minor god) turned into a supernatural monster what would be his strength if he can lift say 50 tons in humanoid form and say 80-100 tons in monstrous form? Are there weapons in champions that do more damage to supernatural beings and creatures? Also would the shape shifting be Cellular and/or Makeover?

[mayapuppies]

Re: Help

 

No

[TheNaga]

Re: Help

 

No

What are you saying no to?

[mayapuppies]

Re: Help

 

What are you saying no to?

Sorry, at the time I posted a response, you had only asked if you needed to link the powers.

I new to the Champions. I use to play Heroes Unlimited and Rifts. I wanted the weaknss which occurs in the daytime and sunlight to weaken some of his characteristic such as strength and speed. Would I need to have the powers and abilities the monstrous form he has Linked?

Now, with all of this extra information, that changes my answer.

 

I'm assuming, that he is a normal person until he shapeshifts or multiforms, correct? Judging by the the shapeshift questions, I'm assuming that's the route you are going, if so, then you only have to have the 'Only In Hero ID' limitation applied to the powers.

 

In my opinion, multiform is the more elegant solution, however.

[phoenix240]

Re: Help

 

I new to the Champions. I use to play Heroes Unlimited and Rifts. I wanted the weaknss which occurs in the daytime and sunlight to weaken some of his characteristic such as strength and speed.

 

 

Purchasing those Characteristics with the Lmitation: Not during the Day (probably a -1) would likely do the trick.

 

 

Would I need to have the powers and abilities the monstrous form he has Linked?

 

 

Only in Alternate ID would suffice.

 

 

Which would be the right sense group for the shape shifting?

 

 

It depends but I'd say Sight and Touch at least.

 

 

As a Godling (Minor god) turned into a supernatural monster what would be his strength if he can lift say 50 tons in humanoid form and say 80-100 tons in monstrous form?

 

 

Consult the Strength table in the core book. Hero System doesn't vary the Strength score required to lift something based on the character's origin.

 

 

Are there weapons in champions that do more damage to supernatural beings and creatures?

 

 

You can build a weapon that does more damage to supernatural creatures if you wish. Champions/Hero System is an effects based system. The player decides what they want and uses the rules to design the ability and get a cost for it in character points. Your questions is one about a setting more than the rules themselves.

 

 

Also would the shape shifting be Cellular and/or Makeover?

 

 

Again, it depends on the effect you want. Makeover seems a little pointless if he just has the one form, IMO.

[Christopher]

Re: Help

 

Hello.

 

>>I wanted the weaknss which occurs in the daytime and sunlight to weaken some of his characteristic such as strength and speed.

>>Would I need to have the powers and abilities the monstrous form he has Linked?

The herogames Complication "Succeptibility" would mean, he looses power as long as he is in the effect. Like Superman to Kryptonite or Humans and too few air.

You can link it to a Shape-Shift that only works out of daylight, make it OIAID, or make a Multiform that only works out of Daylight. Maybe give the Monster Form an "Involuntary Transformation" (to normal Form; when in Sunlight).

 

>>As a Godling (Minor god) turned into a supernatural monster what would be his strength if he can lift say 50 tons in humanoid form and say 80-100 tons in monstrous form?

Take a look at the STR chart. But general doubling the lifting weight is not more than +5 STR and I think you want to go for a bigger change.

 

>>Are there weapons in champions that do more damage to supernatural beings and creatures?

Only if said being has a Vulnerability (Complication) against the weapon/type of damage.

 

>>Also would the shape shifting be Cellular and/or Makeover?

>>Which would be the right sense group for the shape shifting?

Shape Shifting is basically fooling Sense Groups, but not changing abilites. Usually having different DNA can just be part of the SFX for Multiform, Shapeshift or OIAID.

Asuming we are talking about super-genre, a simple facemask (or glasses!) is enough to protect your ID even from your wife/girlfriend (that you regulary rescue in heroic id). So as long as nobody witnesses the change, he should be okay.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Help

 

I new to the Champions. I use to play Heroes Unlimited and Rifts. I wanted the weaknss which occurs in the daytime and sunlight to weaken some of his characteristic such as strength and speed. Would I need to have the powers and abilities the monstrous form he has Linked? I new to the game. Which would be the right sense group for the shape shifting? As a Godling (Minor god) turned into a supernatural monster what would be his strength if he can lift say 50 tons in humanoid form and say 80-100 tons in monstrous form? Are there weapons in champions that do more damage to supernatural beings and creatures? Also would the shape shifting be Cellular and/or Makeover?

 

HERO can be a real challenge when coming from a different system. You have a range of assumptions in your head about what you will find and how things work.

 

Now. What you have, if I have been following this right, is a minor godling who, in the dark (or during the night) turns into a monster. becoming the monster increases his physical attributes.

 

What you have to decide is, does his personality change when in monstrous form.

 

If it does then I think you are pretty much consigned to the multiform route - you build the godling and the monster separately giving them the powers skills and characteristics they need and then topping off the complications to reflect the changed personality.

 

If it does not then you are simply adding powers to the character when it is dark. In the strength example you gave a strength of 55 lifts about 50 tonnes and strength 60 lifts about 100 tonnes. lifting strength is geometric in HERO, each +5 STR doubles the lift capacity and adds 1D6 to the damage. As Christopher says, if you want to make the change significant then you might want to add more than 5 STR. However, for the build purposes that +5 STR is bought with the limitation, not during the day. I would probably give it a -1/4 limitation and so the 5 STR would cost 4 points (5/1.25).

 

You could simply build all of the added powers of the monstrous form in this fashion.

 

Does the godling have control? Could he, for example, decide not to take the monstrous form in the dark or is it imposed? If it was imposed then I might change the limitation to 'only in monstrous form -1/2' and have a complication of PHYS LIM: 'Always takes monstrous form at the fall of night'

 

HERO is very flexible but that means you have to think of everything. If you want a particular sword to do more damage to a supernatural being then you must remember to build that into the being e.g. VULNERABILITY - 2x BODY when struck by Excalibur. That way, you do not have to make Excalibur anything extraordinary - it is a sword with a perk - it is Excalibur and will damage such creatures more than other swords that appear equally well forged.

 

If you want a supernatural being to be unable to be vulnerable to turning, then you build it into the creature and it all depends on the skill of the cleric performing the exorcism.

 

HERO is, when it comes down to it, all about the GM planning ahead as far as he is able. The more he can do this then the better the game.

 

 

Doc

[TheNaga]

Re: Help

 

He was once minor god but his father turned him from a minor god into a supernatural monster as punishment for the killing his mother and twin sister. He thought by killing and eating his mother and twin sister he could gain more power.

 

After reading the following I want him to be more savage in his Monstrous Form. In Heroes Unlimited he has the super ability Monstrous Form. Character using the power Monstrous Form is more savage and monstrous. This means the character's alignment is reduced by one step.

 

In Heroes Unlimited his Physical Strength is 30 and Supernatural. With the Achilies Heel he has in Heroes unlimited his strength score is 15 during the day. Characters with Supernatural Strength can carery 300 x P.S. and lift 500 x P.S. in Heroes Unlimited I have find that in Heroes Limited character character with Supernatural Strength are weak compared to character in superhero comics. Even my Cro-Magnon demigod which I choose the power of Supernatural Strength for him get gest a bouns of 30 +26 to P.S. plus his 1D6+3 P.S for being a demigod and 20 to P.S. due to his Mega-Power (Demigod in Heros Unlimited get a Mega-Power in which I choose Temendous Strength for him) comes out to a P.S. of 106. That means he can Carry 31,800 (15.9 tons) and Lift 53,000 (26.5 tons). That is weak for a game based on comics in which character can have the ability lift 100 tons. This demigod is my strongest character. I forget to mention that unlike Champions in which you can increase your Strength in Heroes Unlimited he can not every increase his strength becuase it is Supernatural.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Help

 

My general strategy in translating characters from other systems is to ignore basic mechanics in favour of the feel of the character. How strong is 30 Supernatural Strength (or 106), not in terms of "he can lift 30,000 kg or lb, but in terms of combat effectiveness? Is that a low damage Brick level of STR, mid-level or higher than a PC is likely to have?

 

You say that he's your strongest character. If using the Champions Universe, Grond has STR 90 - that's much stronger than any PC and pretty much any other NPC villain, and fully strong enough to stand against a typical group of PC's. One punch will likely stun most PC's, and a couple will lay most of them out.

 

If 30 STR is strong enough that STR alone is a viable attack power, then (if using typical CU power levels), that's probably a 60 STR or so. If it backs up other attack powers (such as a Claws killing attack) he may be able to get by with a 30 STR (if all it does is back up the claws) or a 40 - 50 STR (STR as a viable, but not overly powerful, attack).

 

You seriously reduce the number of responses you are likely to get when you describe characters using a stat block from another game. Many Hero experts will look at that, say "don't play HU, so no sense responding" and move on.

[Palmate]

Re: Help

 

with the information provided you are most likely looking at Multiform with no conscious control. in the multiform you can add additional Complications to make him more savage, things like lack of empathy or the like.

Additionally if the multiform has powers then you can include them there.

 

Palmate

[TheNaga]

Re: Help

 

I was saying that in Heroes Unlimited character are not strong like they are comics. My Cro-Magnon demigod I mentioned is a different character who happen to even have stronger scorewise then Hercules.

 

Right now the damage he does is not that great. I want him to be really be strong since he never lost his godly strength even as a supernatural monster I want his strength level to be no less then 40 ton.

 

He looks like the following in Monstrous Form. I am thinking of make his arms in Monstrous Form end claws hand instead of serrated blades of bone shaped like the claws of a praying mantis.

 

Monstrous Form: He is a malefic humanoid that stands thirteen feet tall. His is thickly muscled body is covered in mottled sickly yellow-green chitinous plates. His huge oval head is bestial in appearance and low slung between his shoulders. The horizontal axis of the head is the longest. The back corners of his skull have an enormous pair of backward-pointing spikes that are six inches long; these are surrounded by three smaller spikes. The ears resemble the wings of a bat. In the center of his forehead is a shining star. The large eyes flicker with black fire. His long heavy powerful jaws are rimmed with six inches long razor sharp tusk-like teeth. Curving out from both sides of the neck is a set of four horns which protect the neck and shoulder. Six nightmarish looking tentacles protrude from his back. The tentacles split at the end, into three radial "fingers." On both shoulder is large eye that is the same color as the eyes on his head. The arms end in serrated blades of bone shaped like the claws of a praying mantis. The serpentine tail is prehensile and measures five feet in length. The legs resemble the hind legs of a powerful predatory creature. Each large foot has six toes with an extra joint. Each toe ends in a large thick crimson claw.

[Christopher]

Re: Help

 

I was saying that in Heroes Unlimited character are not strong like they are comics. My Cro-Magnon demigod I mentioned is a different character who happen to even have stronger scorewise then Hercules.

 

Right now the damage he does is not that great. I want him to be really be strong since he never lost his godly strength even as a supernatural monster I want his strength level to be no less then 40 ton.

 

He looks like the following in Monstrous Form. I am thinking of make his arms in Monstrous Form end claws hand instead of serrated blades of bone shaped like the claws of a praying mantis.

Juzst decide on two things:

- what powerlevel do you have/want to play him in

- what are his superpowers, described like in it is done in wikipedia for superheroes

Give us these things, and we can tell you how to build it.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Help

 

The simple answer is that, if you want the demigod to be the strongest one in the game, you need to decide what the maximum STR in your game will be. Using CU figures, Grond's 90 STR comes to mind. Set your demigod's STR at 90, and we have Thor and the Hulk at equal STR. If you want him to be stronger, use 95 or 100. But you have to set your game's parameters - he can only be "the strongest" once you define the STR ranges in your game.

 

Telling us his Heroes Unlimited stats is useless to most of us without context for "what is actually high in Heroes Unlimited". The character's abilities need to be described in English for most posters here to translate that into Hero terms. Not "He has 105 STR in Game System Z" or "He gets +27 to Hand to Hand damage" or even "He can lift 40 Tons". How strong is he compared to the rest of the characters/creatures in that game? Is his STR damage in the same range as most characters who rely on STR for damage? Is it a bit higher? A lot higher? The highest there is?

 

And, as noted above, because Hero is flexible, you will also need to define the parameters of your game. An outrageously high STR for a fantasy game will be far too low in a Supers game. Supers games also vary. Most of us, discussing Supers, will default to "standard supers" levels, but we have no way of knowing if that's how you plan on running your game.

[TheNaga]

Re: Help

 

I know that he will always have the ability to regenerate health and limbs in both forms. I would like him to gain due to his eyes being pucked out and the empty eye sockets were set aflame with black fire the ability to see the invisible. I would like to have one or two darkness based powers (I see him having light based powers as a minor god).

 

He has tentacles in Monstrous Form which can manipulate weapons and or things. The tentacles split at the end, into three radial "fingers." I was thinking in Monstrous Form he has the following listed below this paragraph which give him a second bite attack with the mouths and the mouths have a breath weapon. He has greater resistance to damage in his Monstrous Form due to his mottled sickly yellow-green chitinous plates. He has telescopic nightvision in Monstrous Form. I kno for a fact that I want the Monstrous Form to be able to lft 20 tons more then the Human Form which can lift say 35-55 tons. He is faster in Monstrous Form.

Located in the center of his chest are three huge eyes that have red irises and black scleras. Below these eyes is a huge vertical set of jaws set inside a huge horizontal set of jaws.

 

Could I get some him in fixing up his history. What follows is all I have on his history so far.

 

History: He was kicked out of Thor because he killed his twin sister and mother. In front of the rest of the pantheon he belonged to, his father forced his evil to manifest. His father said "Reveal your evil self to ever one present my son." After that he turned from a beauty looking godling into an ugly monster. First his arms turned into nightmarish tentacles that reach almost to the ground. Next black, glowing veins appeared and they ran throughout the skin which become withered and mottled green and blue-violet in. After he was finished changing, his eyes were plucked out by his father and the empty eye sockets were set aflame with black fire. Finally his father scorched his wings so that they are now charred down to the bone.

[Christopher]

Re: Help

 

I know that he will always have the ability to regenerate health and limbs in both forms.

Regeneration, with Can Regrow Limbs adder.

 

I would like him to gain due to his eyes being pucked out and the empty eye sockets were set aflame with black fire the ability to see the invisible.

That is difficulty.

Generally, Senses linked to the Sight group are affected by all Sense-Affecting powers agaisnt the sight group (Including invisibility). Unless a campaign rules says somethign different or the Invisbility was bought very cheap.

But you could buy a idependent Sense (one not tied to any Sense Group), that would be pretty much immune to any sense affecting powers (except a Invisbiltiy/Flash explicitly for that sense). Downside is that it is expensive and you need to define "what" he can exactly see with that sense (and thus, what he can't see with it).

You can get some points by selling back your normal sight (35, I think), but that might not be as good as it sounds first.

 

I would like to have one or two darkness based powers (I see him having light based powers as a minor god).

Darkness is a SFX. What Game effect are you aming at? If it is an area effect, should he or his allies be immune to it?

 

He has tentacles in Monstrous Form whihc can manipulate weapons and such. The tentacles split at the end' date=' into three radial "fingers."[/quote']

Extra Limbs, Inherent (+1/4). 6 Real Cost that give you 1-100 Arms (as many as you like) with full STR exertion and manipulation each.

But that does not mean you get any extra attacks or actions, or a are better at using multiple arms at once (that requires Ambidexterity; OCV Bonuses, only to offset Multiattack penalties; autofire for punches; a form of combined attack).

 

I was thinking in Monstrous Form he has the following list below this paragraph which give him a second bite attack with the mouths and the mouths have a breath weapon.

Having more than one attack per phase with different weapons is a form of Multiattack or Combined attack. Multiple attacks with one attack is Autofire Advantage.

 

He has greater resistance to damage in his Monstrous Form due to his mottled sickly yellow-green chitinous plates.

More Resistant defenses (not to be mistaken for normal Defenses with Resistant Advantage).

 

He has telescopic nightvision in Monstrous Form.

Nightvision form Enchanched Senses and Telescopic for Sight group.

Nightvision could already be done with his "see invisibile things" power, as that woudl be unaffected by lighting.

 

I kno for a fact that I want the Monstrous Form to be able to lft 20 tons more then the Human Form which can lift say 35-55 tons. He is faster in Monstrous Form.

60 STR - 100 Tons

58 STR - 75 Tons (a guess)

55 STR - 50 Tons

50 STR - 25 Tons

45 STR - 12.5 Tons

43 STR - 18.75 Tons (a guess)

 

Don't forget that you can push your STR up to 10 Points (4 times the lift)

 

When you say increase Speed: Only running or running and reaction/action ability?

[TheNaga]

Re: Help

 

The simple answer is that, if you want the demigod to be the strongest one in the game, you need to decide what the maximum STR in your game will be. Using CU figures, Grond's 90 STR comes to mind. Set your demigod's STR at 90, and we have Thor and the Hulk at equal STR. If you want him to be stronger, use 95 or 100. But you have to set your game's parameters - he can only be "the strongest" once you define the STR ranges in your game.

 

Telling us his Heroes Unlimited stats is useless to most of us without context for "what is actually high in Heroes Unlimited". The character's abilities need to be described in English for most posters here to translate that into Hero terms. Not "He has 105 STR in Game System Z" or "He gets +27 to Hand to Hand damage" or even "He can lift 40 Tons". How strong is he compared to the rest of the characters/creatures in that game? Is his STR damage in the same range as most characters who rely on STR for damage? Is it a bit higher? A lot higher? The highest there is?

 

And, as noted above, because Hero is flexible, you will also need to define the parameters of your game. An outrageously high STR for a fantasy game will be far too low in a Supers game. Supers games also vary. Most of us, discussing Supers, will default to "standard supers" levels, but we have no way of knowing if that's how you plan on running your game.

The Cro-Manon Demigod (has the same name as my screen name) I mentioned who had 106 which I plan to make in future was the strongest character in that game and even stronger then Hercules. The character in this post is super strong but not that strong.

[Christopher]

Re: Help

 

The Cro-Manon Demigod (has the same name as my screen name) I mentioned who had 106 which I plan to make in future was the strongest character in that game and even stronger then Hercules. The character in this post is super strong but not that strong.

The Bricks in the 400 point liga should not have more than 60 Points of battle worthy STR (the DC cap is in the way). But you can always take extra STR with Limitations, like concentration or extra time so using/activating it does not help you in combat or is a bad idea.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Help

 

The Bricks in the 400 point liga should not have more than 60 Points of battle worthy STR (the DC cap is in the way). But you can always take extra STR with Limitations' date=' like concentration or extra time so using/activating it does not help you in combat or is a bad idea.[/quote']

 

I would have said that that is a game design decision. My last game was in the 400 point group and the highest STR in the group was 80. We got on OK. It all depends on the parameters of the game.

 

Hugh is right, the first thing to do is set what the best STR in your game is going to be - it does not really matter if that is 30, 60 or 90. All other decisions can be based off how close you are to being the strongest in the game.

 

Doc

[TheNaga]

Re: Help

 

What whould be some good way to give him the power over darkness? He was a a godling a stronger when the light from the sun could reach him and had light based powers. As a godling he very attractive with four arms, three paris of wings made out of light, and three eyes.

 

 

Here is what I have so far.

 

Life Support (Expanded Breathing; Immunity: All terrestrial diseases; Longevity: Immortal; Safe in Intense Cold; Safe in Intense Heat)

 

Running +4m (18m total), x32 Noncombat (24 Active Points); Conditional Power Power Only Works In Darkness (-1/2), Only In Monstrous Form (-1/4)

 

Bio-Regeneration: Regeneration (1 BODY per 5 Minutes), Can Heal Limbs (17 Active Points); Conditional Power Power Only Works In Darkness (-1/2), Only In Monstrous Form (-1/4)

 

+10 BODY, Inherent (+1/4) (12 Active Points); Conditional Power Power Only Works In Darkness (-1/2), Only In Monstrous Form (-1/4)

 

Density Increase (400 kg mass, +10 STR, +2 PD/ED, -4m KB) (8 Active Points); Conditional Power Power Only Works In Darkness (-1/2), Only In Monstrous Form (-1/4)

 

+8 CON (8 Active Points); Conditional Power Power Only Works In Darkness (-1/2), Only In Monstrous Form (-1/4)

 

 

+20 STR (20 Active Points); Conditional Power Power Only Works In Darkness (-1/2), Only In Monstrous Form (-1/4) (Modifiers affect Base Characteristic)

 

Psychological Complication: He will kill those who made fun of how he looks. (Common; Total)

Notes: The more fun a person makes of his looks the more painful that person’s death will be by him.

 

Hunted: Father Frequently (Mo Pow; Watching)

 

Psychological Complication: He wants to become a god again. (Common; Strong)

[TheNaga]

Re: Help

 

What could be some reasons a godling would cast out of his home? How would his father good about ppunishment where he is turned in a more monstrous looking form? why would he have a monstrous humanoid form and a non humanoid for?

[TheNaga]

Re: Help

 

What are some monsters that are monstrous worms in appearance or half worm/half humanoid? How much would I need to put into running if he could run at least 55 mph in his human/humanoid form and 65 mph in his true form?

 

I would like him to be able to make a sword and an axe created out of darkness. Would a weapons made out of darkness be armor piercing? He can create a cloud of impenetrable (people can not see out of or into this cloud) darkness.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Help

 

Since there is no such thing as a weapon "made out of darkness" in the real world, what such a weapon could do is entirely up to you. This is the case with about half of your questions.As to the running it would depend on what the character's SPD is. I'm pretty sure there is instructions in the book for converting meters per turn to mph/kph. Do you have the rule book?

[TheNaga]

Re: Help

 

Yes I do. Where would I look in the rules book then?

 

Would having highly flexible prehensile nightmarish looking tentacles in place of arms allow him to use items that humans can use?

 

I am going g to make him have only one form from now on. He is either going to be a worm or slug from the waist down. Are there any half humanoid/half worm creatures in any of the 5th or 6th edition books?

 

How much of a complication would the following be? In the center of his forehead is a shining star-like wound that trickles a seep of foul blood. The wound drips the seep of foul blood at least once a minute.