What defines a Superhuman?

[SSgt Baloo]

In the Junior Superheroes discussion thread, a debate has arisen about just what constitutes a superhuman. Some folks are arguing that any character built on fewer points than the guidelines in the rulebook isn't superhuman, despite the possession of powers that ordinary humans can't possess. Others (myself included) argue that point total doesn't matter. You could (theoretically) build a 300-point cab driver without any super-abilities whatsoever. He might be the world's smartest, strongest, quickest ex-Navy Seal cabdriver with multiple degrees in science, medicine, and philosophy, but without any ability that any other "normal" person can possess for an outlay of the correct number of points and GM's permission.

 

What do you say? What defines "superhuman"?

[megaplayboy]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

Well, it looks like there are two viable alternatives for what constitutes "superhuman" within an RPG context:

1. "Abilities beyond those of mortal men"(i.e., superhuman stats, any kind of powers, several talents, etc.)

2. Overall capabilities beyond even those of heroic humans(i.e., being built on 300 points or more)

 

Generally, I'd lean towards the first definition, but would say that it gets harder to argue the further away you get from the second definition(i.e., the weaker overall the characters get by comparison with heroic humans, the less "superhuman" they appear to be--essentially they just become "humans with unique abilities").

[Gent]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

The Champions genre book seems to agree with megaplayboy's first definition. In the "Creating Your Superhero Setting" section, it mentions that many superhumans aren't powerful enough to function as superheroes/villains. Also, that same section refers to martial artists, gadgeteers, and the like as not being superhuman, even when they equal superhumans in point value.

[Maccabe]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

That depends on the genre. In a Dark Champions campaign your cabbie might be considered superhuman, in Fantasy Hero a STR of 25 could be considered superhuman. Maybe a quick definition of "superhuman" would be anyone who easily surpasses what the average "normal" in a setting can do. Mind you that "superheroic" would be possessing any ability that is found outside the realm of our reality.

[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

In my experience, most narcissists are built on 300 points, but they don't do a very good job fighting crime. Even when they're actually hired to fight crime, you get way too many people's faces being rammed into things to count as policing work.

 

It's also the case that you can have quite impressive powers on a normal build. Selling back your CHAR from 10 to 8 will give you more than enough points to fly, for example. A careful use of limitations within a power framework will turn your 20 points into more than enough to impress the rubes. You won't be effective in a fight, but if the other supers are built on the same range of points, that won't be obvious.

 

You will have to hide from VIPER and the MARS team, but that's another story.

[megaplayboy]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

Well, any human can speak multiple languages, but someone who was fluent in 100 different languages would clearly qualify as "superhuman", imo. Ditto for someone with a 17- roll in 35 different sciences or scholarly disciplines. Someone with peak normal STR, DEX, CON and OCV/DCV, who knows 25 different martial arts maneuvers, is arguably superhuman. If someone is within the limits of human capability, but at those limits in far more areas than real-world humans are capable of, they're still superhuman(beyond human capability).

 

But you could technically have an incompetent character(-20-25 points) who has 10 meters of flight, or a 30 STR--does that mean they're now "superhuman"? Most humans are more capable than them in most areas, but they have this one unique ability. That was sort of my point with the second definition. If you make teen superheroes too weak, are they really still superheroes at all? But what "too weak" means will be a matter of personal taste.

[phoenix240]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

IMO, Superhuman means literally that: the character in question does something that is not possible for a human being to accomplish in reality: Fly on their own power, read minds, etc. It doesn't require that they automatically be better overall than most of the other people in the setting. Real life humans have pulled off some pretty amazing accomplishments. With highly skilled but arguably "normal" characters (Batman, most of the characters in Watchmen and allot of Pulp Adventurers, for example) there is a gray area. I would call them cinematic or larger than life rather than superhuman though. If you're a superhero is defined by how you use your abilities and the style of the setting.

[Gent]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

But you could technically have an incompetent character(-20-25 points) who has 10 meters of flight' date=' or a 30 STR--does that mean they're now "superhuman"? Most humans are more capable than them in most areas, but they have this one unique ability. That was sort of my point with the second definition. If you make teen superheroes too weak, are they really still superheroes at all? But what "too weak" means will be a matter of personal taste. [/quote']

I would argue that it does. A quadriplegic telepath is not going to don tights and become a superhero, but he is nonetheless superhuman for being a telepath. In fact, if he had a mental blast, he could fight crime, albeit only crime happening just outside his window.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

My definition of 'superhuman' requires abilities that 'just a human' can't have. If you have super-powers, you're a super-human. The character's point total is irrelevant, because the character (and the game world in general) are not aware of his point total, or even that he's made up of points. A 10 point character with 2" of Teleportation is a superhuman. Whether or not he decides to be a superHERO (using his powers for the greater good and protection of innocents) is another matter entirely.

 

(And yes, by this definition, Batman is not a superhuman.)

[phoenix240]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

(And yes, by this definition, Batman is not a superhuman.)

 

Neither is Capt. America (technically) and a large number of other comic book characters. I'd say there were SuperHEROES though since they use their abilities for the greater good in larger than life ways, use a colorful alter ego, etc.

[Christopher]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

Well, any human can speak multiple languages, but someone who was fluent in 100 different languages would clearly qualify as "superhuman", imo. Ditto for someone with a 17- roll in 35 different sciences or scholarly disciplines. Someone with peak normal STR, DEX, CON and OCV/DCV, who knows 25 different martial arts maneuvers, is arguably superhuman. If someone is within the limits of human capability, but at those limits in far more areas than real-world humans are capable of, they're still superhuman(beyond human capability).

 

But you could technically have an incompetent character(-20-25 points) who has 10 meters of flight, or a 30 STR--does that mean they're now "superhuman"? Most humans are more capable than them in most areas, but they have this one unique ability. That was sort of my point with the second definition. If you make teen superheroes too weak, are they really still superheroes at all? But what "too weak" means will be a matter of personal taste.

I totally agree with Megaplyboy on this. Your 10 meters flight might be nice, mr. 100 point boy. But don't even try to escape a 175 point Viper goon, he'll get you anyway.

[phoenix240]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

I totally agree with Megaplyboy on this. Your 10 meters flight might be nice' date=' mr. 100 point boy. But don't even try to escape a 175 point Viper goon, he'll get you anyway.[/quote']

 

Well, that would depend on how the campaign is scaled. Viper "goons" are built to be a challenge to Champions Universe scaled player characters. They're like Spec Ops soldiers with Science Fiction weapons. Heck, the way their built they'd be hard to handle for a number of Street level supers I've seen. So I guess they're not superhuman now either?

 

And actually, depending on the situation and the role playing and tactics, where he put his other points, etc Mr. 100 point boy just might escape. I never get this weird contempt that some seem to have for lower powered characters and campaigns. You don't have to be playing a Godling to have fun or play a hero or adventurer or even a superhuman.

 

Bascally, I really disagree with the idea you lose "superhuman" status because there is someone (or allot of someones) more talented than you in more mundane areas because "all" you can do is something impossible. Superhuman doesn't equal "I win" by any means. In a realistic world, a single well trained human sniper that caught them off guard could possibly kill most of the X men or a bomber or similar assassin. That doesn't make them not superhuman. A guy that could fly under his own power would be a miracle in the real world. No one would be rolling their eyes because he couldn't bounce bullets off his chest or outfight experienced Delta Force commandos with his eyes closed.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

Neither is Capt. America (technically) and a large number of other comic book characters.

 

No arguments.

 

I'd say there were SuperHEROES though since they use their abilities for the greater good in larger than life ways, use a colorful alter ego, etc.

 

I prefer to reserve the 'super-' prefix for characters who either have superpowers or use super-technology. So, Iron Man and Green Lantern would qualify as Superheroes, despite not being superhuman, but Batman and Captain America would not. I like to use the term 'Paranormal' for them. Para- meaning 'beside' rather than super-'s 'beyond'. But it's by and large semantics.

[phoenix240]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

No arguments.

 

I didn't mean to come across as argumentative. I agree with what you were were saying. Sorry if it came off the wrong way.

[phoenix240]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

Actually, in a way the so called "goons'' are an example of how formidable you can make low point total characters. Change the SFX, switch around some limitations to make their abilities innate and you'd have superhumans. And dangerous ones at that.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

In one campaign I ran, "Superhero" was applied to anyone who stepped into that role, regardless of innate ability. A "normal" with training, talent and/or equipment could become a superhero. Superpowers ran the gamut from Incredibly powerful to practically useless. Anyone with a superpower was "superhuman" by definition, without regard to who might be able to beat them up.

 

"Super" is semantics. Don't assume your players have the same definitions as you do and you might save some grief later on.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

Actually, Most of my superheroic campaigns used the definitions I laid out above. Basically, any normal, with training, talent, and dedication can rise to "Superheroic" levels of competence. No-one can train themselves into having superpowers. That requires genetics, magical, supernatural or scientific intervention, or some other means which "normals" don't have at their disposal. By that definition, Captain America is superpowered, but Batman isn't. They're both superheroic.

[megaplayboy]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

Hmm...seems to me, it might be useful to have some sort of intermediate term, which would help to distinguish those with "combat-ready" superpowers from those with either very low-level combat-useful powers, or noncombat-only powers. If your only power is to generate illumination equal to a 100 watt lightbulb, great, you're "superhuman", but you're nowhere near ready to go fight bad guys or even teenage skate punks. What about "superhuman" vs. "superpowered" or "superpowerful human"?

[phoenix240]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

Why does strictly combat ability determine if you're a "superhero" or not? A telepath that stops crimes, solves them and assists people with his powers isn't a hero? Or a pacifist brick that uses his strength and resilence as a rescue worker and, sometimes, living sheild isn't a superhero? I'm not trying to be obnoxious or preachy but I don't like the idea that a character's superhero status is determined mostly by who they can beat and how many problems they could solve with violence.

[megaplayboy]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

Why does strictly combat ability determine if you're a "superhero" or not? A telepath that stops crimes' date=' solves them and assists people with his powers isn't a hero? Or a pacifist brick that uses his strength and resilence as a rescue worker and, sometimes, living sheild isn't a superhero? I'm not trying to be obnoxious or preachy but I don't like the idea that a character's superhero status is determined mostly by who they can beat and how many problems they could solve with violence.[/quote']

 

Well, you could have a heroic character, ala Sherlock Holmes, who primarily relies on their deductive abilities and other non-combat skills...but a 175 point detective will have substantially greater capabilities than a 25 point one.

I'd point out we're ostensibly talking about a game-relevant definition of "superhuman", not one for "superhero". And how do we differentiate someone with a 60 active point multipower and 5 slots worth of mental powers from a guy with 3d6 telepathy? Both are "superhuman", according to definition 1--but then the problem is that it's an overbroad descriptor. It's like saying a guy with a 26 STR and a guy with 150 STR are "both superstrong". Technically correct, but functionally useless for making any distinctions.

 

Defining "superhero" is actually trickier than defining "superhuman", imo, because you have to define it both in terms of what "superhuman" means, and also in terms of how you differentiate a "superhero" from a "hero". In the system it's even trickier, because "heroes" are defined partially in terms of a point range(175-275). If you want to run a "superhero" game in that(or even below that) point range, it becomes increasingly challenging to make all those distinctions meaningful the lower you go.

[phoenix240]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

I'd point out we're ostensibly talking about a game-relevant definition of "superhuman"' date=' not one for "superhero"..[/quote']

 

Ah, well, your post referred to "fighting badguys" so I thought you were talking about superheroing rather that just being superhuman. I thought we were talking about our personal definitions of "superhuman" however, outside of the game.

[Tasha]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

My definition of 'superhuman' requires abilities that 'just a human' can't have. If you have super-powers, you're a super-human. The character's point total is irrelevant, because the character (and the game world in general) are not aware of his point total, or even that he's made up of points. A 10 point character with 2" of Teleportation is a superhuman. Whether or not he decides to be a superHERO (using his powers for the greater good and protection of innocents) is another matter entirely.

 

(And yes, by this definition, Batman is not a superhuman.)

 

I agree mostly with your defination, but would add that anyone with more than one primary stat over 20 and/or a spd over 4 would also qualify as a superhuman. That would also include Captain America and Batman. Both of them have a great deal of their primaries over 20 and also have other abilities that put them over the top. ie Cap's ability to throw and bounce that shield all over the place is just superhuman. Also, Doc Savage is also plainly superhuman. Doc having got his abilities through a lifetime of training(and also though good genetics IMHO), and Cap from the Super Soldier Serum. Batman is just Batman.

 

I think that the sheer number of specialities that both Bats and Doc have make them superhuman. Normal people don't tend to be that good in that many specialities esp ones that take many years of schooling before they are considered competent. That is on top of the day to day training that both undertake to keep them in tip top condition.

[Tasha]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

I would argue that it does. A quadriplegic telepath is not going to don tights and become a superhero' date=' but he is nonetheless superhuman for being a telepath. In fact, if he had a mental blast, he could fight crime, albeit only crime happening just outside his window.[/quote']

 

I had a paraplegic character that while she didn't wear tights. She did fight crime from her wheelchair. She was a Telekinetic, it was quite fun playing her. Probably the first of my characters that were close to being normal in Dex/Spd, but had other powers. So they were street level heroes in feel, but with enough DC and Def to play with "regular" supers.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

I didn't mean to come across as argumentative. I agree with what you were were saying. Sorry if it came off the wrong way.

 

You didn't, that was just my way of saying 'I agree with you'. As in, 'I have no argument against what you say'.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

 

I agree mostly with your defination' date=' but would add that anyone with more than one primary stat over 20 and/or a spd over 4 would also qualify as a superhuman. [/quote']

 

This is more campaign-dependent, I think. If someone has no super-powers, I would be hard pressed to let any of their primaries exceed 23 in my game, and even if their stats are above NCMs, nobody will call them superhuman in-character because characters can't see their numbers. Dex 23, 26, whatever ... nobody in my game world would ever call Batman a superhuman. If you perform medical tests on him, there are no genetic alterations, odd blood chemistries, unusual brainwaves, or anything else. Hmm. Maybe I should make a Distinctive Feature part of being superhuman? You can't undergo many kinds of medical examinations without getting caught ...