Combining post-apocalypse and accidental uplift

[Steve]

"Rise of the Planet of the Apes" is an interesting way to create a post-apocalypse setting.

 

 

Scientists invent retrovirus intended to cure Alzheimers, and apes exposed to as part of testing it gain human-level intelligence. But the virus causes human pandemic and brings about the end of human civilization.

 

This is an example of a soft apocalypse with a twist because it creates a successor race to mankind to inherit the earth. With a retrovirus that uplifts animals as the cause of a human apocalypse, how far could you take that? Increasing an ape's intelligence is one possibility. How about uplifted dogs, cats, or dolphins?

 

A forced evolution of a non-sentient species creates a competitor for mankind, which makes it even harder for humanity already dealing with massive death tolls from a disease.

 

But how far could you take such an uplift? How about evolving a non-biped into a biped?

 

One thought I had for a campaign setting was for a space-born virus to descend upon earth and cause mass death among humanity while evolving specific animals to sentience and maybe a bipedal structure. Could this be done in a more fantastic science-fiction setting without devolving into Gamma World silliness?

 

[sinanju]

Re: Combining post-apocalypse and accidental uplift

 

Well, Poul Anderson's 1953 novel Brainwave might be one way of doing it. In that novel, he postulated that life on earth evolved while the solar system (our section of the galaxy, or the galaxy, I forget how big the area) was passing through a region of space in which there was...resistance is the best way I can put it...to the physical processes involved in intelligence. Eventually we passed out of that region of space.

 

The result was that humans all became supergeniuses--and animals acquired human- or near-human intelligence as well. This did not go well, especially amongst domesticated animals who were now smart enough to realize how we were treating them, and how flimsy our methods of control were (after all, they depend on the animals being, well, ANIMALS and not all that bright. Now they were bright--and in many cases much bigger/stronger than their human captors.

 

All those supergeniuses invented FTL travel in short order we went out to explore the universe, and found that most worlds were populated by low-grade morons. Not having developed intelligence in the face of such resistance, their brains were weak and flabby by comparison.

 

Another alternative is Vernor Vinge's A Fire Upon The Deep, in which he posits that the laws of physics change depending on how are you are from the galactic core. Near the center, in the Unthinking Depths, intelligence is impossible, and most technology doesn't work. In the Slow Zone, where earth is located, intelligence and high tech are possible, but some tech (FTL travel, for instance) is impossible. The Beyond, along the very rim of the galaxy, permits ultra-tech to function, including AIs, FTL travel and pretty much any "magic tech" you care to name. Beyond THAT, out beyond the edge of the galaxy is the Beyond, where godlike entities exercise unimaginable intelligence and power.

 

If the boundaries of such zones were to change, that could radically alter a game world.

[Christopher]

Re: Combining post-apocalypse and accidental uplift

 

The problem with eolving most non-ape animals is that they lack hands with opposable thumbs.

 

Raccoons or Squirrels are among those that would benefit the most. In the sea octupi/squid could become the best tool wielders but that might not be enough fight intelligent doplhins.

So perhaps the doplins/whales enslave the seas? Or they become diplomats between the surface and deep sea, due to being air-breathing mamals that life in the sea?

 

One question is what this uplifting would do to the food chain of intelligent Predators (Lions, Sharks, Doplhins) with their prey now being intelligent/sentient too? Would this cause moral dilemmas for them?

[Nolgroth]

Re: Combining post-apocalypse and accidental uplift

 

Well there were the Supermutants and Ghouls from Fallout 3. There is lore within the game that indicates somebody "uplifted" the supermutants.

[Christopher]

Re: Combining post-apocalypse and accidental uplift

 

Well there were the Supermutants and Ghouls from Fallout 3. There is lore within the game that indicates somebody "uplifted" the supermutants.

AFAIK both were created by the "Forced Evolution Virus" (FEV)

[Nolgroth]

Re: Combining post-apocalypse and accidental uplift

 

AFAIK both were created by the "Forced Evolution Virus" (FEV)

That's how I understand it. In Fallout: New Vegas there is a reference to a Master who had some sort of direct hand in the development of 1st Generation supermutants. I never played Fallout and Fallout 2, so I can only glean from the lore available in Fallout 3 and New Vegas.

[Steve]

Re: Combining post-apocalypse and accidental uplift

 

The FEV sounds like just the thing I was looking for. If its effects have a certain randomness due to the virus mutating from environmental effects, I could use it to explain mutant humans and animals. If it had an intelligent design to it, there could also be different strains of the virus.

 

Some humans could even end up arguably improved (one of the virus strains mutates to upgrade humans but has a tendency to also induce insanities in most, like megalomania as seen in Khan Noonian Singh).

[Christopher]

Re: Combining post-apocalypse and accidental uplift

 

That's how I understand it. In Fallout: New Vegas there is a reference to a Master who had some sort of direct hand in the development of 1st Generation supermutants. I never played Fallout and Fallout 2' date=' so I can only glean from the lore available in Fallout 3 and New Vegas.[/quote']

The master was the main antagonist of the second part of the first fallout game. I heard there is even a computer that explains the FEV in detail, but I never got that far.

[clsage]

Re: Combining post-apocalypse and accidental uplift

 

Hmmmmm....I am struck with the idea of this:

 

http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptationscreatures/movies/dark_seeker.html

 

or this:

 

http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptationscreatures/movies/infected.html

 

or just maybe one of these:

 

http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptationscreatures/movies/livingdead.html

 

http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptationscreatures/fiction/solanum_zombie.html

 

confronting a modified version of this:

 

http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptationscomic/mno/mnoaxewell.html

 

(yeah, Axewell Tiberius is a bit much....But it's the only intelligent ape link I could find on short notice.... )

 

And potentially some "immune humans" stuck in the middle.....

 

I kind of like it!

 

-Carl-

[Shadow Hawk]

Re: Combining post-apocalypse and accidental uplift

 

Well' date=' Poul Anderson's 1953 novel [b']Brainwave[/b] might be one way of doing it. In that novel, he postulated that life on earth evolved while the solar system (our section of the galaxy, or the galaxy, I forget how big the area) was passing through a region of space in which there was...resistance is the best way I can put it...to the physical processes involved in intelligence. Eventually we passed out of that region of space.

 

The result was that humans all became supergeniuses--and animals acquired human- or near-human intelligence as well. This did not go well, especially amongst domesticated animals who were now smart enough to realize how we were treating them, and how flimsy our methods of control were (after all, they depend on the animals being, well, ANIMALS and not all that bright. Now they were bright--and in many cases much bigger/stronger than their human captors.

 

All those supergeniuses invented FTL travel in short order we went out to explore the universe, and found that most worlds were populated by low-grade morons. Not having developed intelligence in the face of such resistance, their brains were weak and flabby by comparison.

 

"Brainwave" also had a neat comment on how the dinosaurs became extinct... They had evolved before the Earth had entered the 'reduced IQ' zone. When Earth entered the zone, they became litterally 'to dumb to live'.

[Tasha]

Re: Combining post-apocalypse and accidental uplift

 

The problem with eolving most non-ape animals is that they lack hands with opposable thumbs.

 

Raccoons or Squirrels are among those that would benefit the most. In the sea octupi/squid could become the best tool wielders but that might not be enough fight intelligent doplhins.

So perhaps the doplins/whales enslave the seas? Or they become diplomats between the surface and deep sea, due to being air-breathing mamals that life in the sea?

 

One question is what this uplifting would do to the food chain of intelligent Predators (Lions, Sharks, Doplhins) with their prey now being intelligent/sentient too? Would this cause moral dilemmas for them?

 

Polydactylism is now a fairly common mutation for housecats (at least there is a steady breeding line of cats with the mutation). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polydactyl_cat

Cats with that mutation have extra fingers on their paws. Most cats with it seem to exhibit better dexterity with their paws. Using their extra fingers like a thumb to pick up things.

 

Oh for a funny look at a world of intelligent animals where Carnivores kill and eat Intelligent Herbivores. http://www.kevinandkell.com/

[Christopher]

Re: Combining post-apocalypse and accidental uplift

 

Polydactylism is now a fairly common mutation for housecats (at least there is a steady breeding line of cats with the mutation). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polydactyl_cat

Cats with that mutation have extra fingers on their paws. Most cats with it seem to exhibit better dexterity with their paws. Using their extra fingers like a thumb to pick up things.

As I understand it the unusual postition of the extra toe(s) makes it impossible to shorten the claw on them, thus running danger of causing wounds. So it seem this mutation would also make the cat less likely to survive without someone who cares for it.

[Lucius]

Re: Combining post-apocalypse and accidental uplift

 

As I understand it the unusual postition of the extra toe(s) makes it impossible to shorten the claw on them' date=' thus running danger of causing wounds. So it seem this mutation would also make the cat less likely to survive without someone who cares for it.[/quote']

 

This would seem to be true of some, but not all, polydactyl cats.

 

http://www.messybeast.com/poly-cats.html#minor

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary thinks someone needs to uplift homo sapiens to full sentience

[Tasha]

Re: Combining post-apocalypse and accidental uplift

 

This would seem to be true of some, but not all, polydactyl cats.

 

http://www.messybeast.com/poly-cats.html#minor

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary thinks someone needs to uplift homo sapiens to full sentience

 

Yeah I am pretty sure all of the polydactyls on the Hemmingway estate don't get their extra claws clipped. In fact them impression I get of those cats is that they are somewhat feral (but still people friendly).