Zip-Line Flight

[ErikModi]

I'm curious as to how to build a flight ability defined as zipping around on lines. For example, Batman's various line-launching gadgets, or Spider-Man's web zips from various games.

 

Flight, Only Along Surfaces doesn't quite seem to work since this sort of flight could be used to zip across a gap, for instance. Thoughts?

[Escafarc]

Re: Zip-Line Flight

 

Swinging 6E1 page 292

[ErikModi]

Re: Zip-Line Flight

 

Yeah, that's what I've got now, and it doesn't quite work that way in practice, at least not in the GM's interpretation.

[Escafarc]

Re: Zip-Line Flight

 

Swinging does exactly what you are describing you want to do. How's your GM doing it.

[Beast]

Re: Zip-Line Flight

 

here are a couple of ways that might better simulate those styles using flight

 

batman style: Flight 30m, No Gravity Penalty (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (60 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), Limited Power Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (can only go as high as the local terrain; -1/2)

 

spiderman style: Flight 40m, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (60 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (may only go as high as the surrounding terrain; -1/2), IIF (-1/4)

[ErikModi]

Re: Zip-Line Flight

 

Basically, the GM requires that my character be below the average elevation of the surrounding buildings, since I have to actually swing from point to point. It makes it difficult-to-impossible to chase someone who is, for instance, fleeing across rooftops, since I continuously have to dip below the rooftops the target is fleeing across.

[Beast]

Re: Zip-Line Flight

 

you could us the swing line to the bottom of your arc in 1 phase and in the next the switch it to a super leap(using the swing line as an sling on your character)

over the course of 2 phases you would be moving in a vertical "S" fashion

[rentauri]

Re: Zip-Line Flight

 

What about a multipower with Stretching and Swinging in it? Use the Stretching when you are above and need to hit the lower buildings and flip to Swinging when you are below the higher buildings.

[Christopher]

Re: Zip-Line Flight

 

I'm curious as to how to build a flight ability defined as zipping around on lines. For example' date=' Batman's various line-launching gadgets, or Spider-Man's web zips from various games.[/quote']

They are two totally different things:

Spiderman is really using swinging.

 

But Batmans toys are actually grappling hooks, including a built-in automatic winch, so it would be a form of streching (as you can pull yourself "up" with it).

[ErikModi]

Re: Zip-Line Flight

 

Yes, Spider-Man TYPICALLY uses Swinging. However, in some games, most notably the recent Shattered Dimensions and Edge of Time, he has a "Web Zip" mode of movement. Basically, you tap the "Swing" button (instead of holding it down, as to swing) and he fires a webline to the nearest "perchable" object, and zips across the intervening space.

 

My GM doesn't seem to think this mode of movement is included in Swinging, so I'm curious about building a Flight mode to do so.

[Greywind]

Re: Zip-Line Flight

 

I'd allow it.

[Armitage]

Re: Zip-Line Flight

 

You could use the Fixed Path (-1) Limitation, normally used for trains and other vehicles that have to follow a track. Maybe reduce it to -1/2 since you can alter the path each time you take off and add Extra Time to establish the path. I also remember a Limitation on Flight that I can't seem to find now: Must Land At The End Of Every Phase.

 

EDIT: Found it in Hero System Martial Arts. It's -1/2. I was pretty sure it was Flight used to represent superhuman leaping and found it in the Toad Stance ability, which also has the Limitation Only In Straight Lines (-1/2) which fits with my Fixed Path suggestion.

 

So Flight, Only In Straight Lines (-1/2), Must Land At The End Of Each Phase (-1/2), Extra Time (Extra Phase (?); -3/4), OAF (-1), maybe No Noncombat Movement (-1/4).

[ErikModi]

Re: Zip-Line Flight

 

Hm, that's interesting. Combining the "only in straight lines" with the "can go no higher than surrounding terrain" may work together to replicate this ability quite well.

[Christopher]

Re: Zip-Line Flight

 

Hm' date=' that's interesting. Combining the "only in straight lines" with the "can go no higher than surrounding terrain" may work together to replicate this ability quite well.[/quote']

The usual problems with games.

 

But I just re-read the Swingign rules (6E1 292):

"The character can also move upwards by climbing or pulling himself up his swingline".

and

"At the GM’s option, a character may climb his swinglines or use them to carry himself straight upward at a rate equal to half his Swinging[...]" (this is basically the normal Gravtity penalty).

 

 

There is also a theory that swinging and jumping are actually calcualted based on Flight with Limitations. Juming/Swinging certaily have the advantage of costing fewer endurance (since the base cost is lower) and not being affected by Drain Flight.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Zip-Line Flight

 

As a GM, I would be OK with Flight 20m (uses a zipline, +1). In my game that would mean that the character would be able to fly at 20m as long as he was no higher than the highest points available (not always the rooftop as there are usually pylons etc that can be used, and no bigger gap than 20m beyond zipline points).

 

I would point out to the player that at key points in the story I might cause him to lose line of sight due to the erratic nature of the movement but that is part of the discount I was giving.

 

If the player did not want to take the disadvantages then I would allow him to use the zipline as an SFX of flight with a limited height ceiling (+1/4).

 

That should be the beauty of HERO. You can get exactly what you want, it all comes to negotiating the value of the limitations and what you and the GM are willing to compromise on. If you do not want that to be part of the story then you pay the points to remove that from the story potential.

 

 

Doc

[dmjalund]

Re: Zip-Line Flight

 

if you have unpowered ziplies, you may need the restriction that the end point is lower than your start point (like a 'flying fox')

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Zip-Line Flight

 

That would be another potential limitation but if you use a line to swing, it is possible to use your momentum to get to higher end point.

 

To me it is all about the player's vision of how his character works and the special effects that go along with that. The player suggests mechanics that he thinks would achieve that (with an associated cost) and the GM decides whether he agrees and, if not, what he would require to achieve the vision. If the player has no ability to pay more points then the GM can advise what he thinks the mechanics would achieve and what the limitations of the build (as costed) would be.

 

I do not think it is for the GM to indicate what the vision should be, just to elucidate to the player what are acceptable builds to accomplish certain things (this keeps the lid on things like turning evil etc and possibly indicating that regardless of how the zip-line is built, someone should be able to cut the line....) and how much those should cost.

 

 

Doc

[Christopher]

Re: Zip-Line Flight

 

if you have unpowered ziplies' date=' you may need the restriction that the end point is lower than your start point (like a 'flying fox')[/quote']

I would simply use the "Gliding Only" Limitation.

[ErikModi]

Re: Zip-Line Flight

 

Lots of good input, thank you all!

 

In this conception, the character is strong enough to provide his own momentum simply through muscle power, yanking himself through the air from point to point using the zip lines as leverage. The lines are also part of his symbiotic costume, but that's neither here nor there.

 

Perhaps I can talk my GM into allowing the character's existing Swinging to cover this, since it's MUCH cheaper to build it that way. I do, however, see part of his point. . . Swinging is half the cost of Flight because Flight is more versatile, and Swinging is more limited. . . if a character with 40m of Flight and a character with 40m of Swinging can both traverse the same ground in the same amount of time, what's the benefit for the character who spent twice as much on Flight?

 

Any thoughts on the Swinging vs. Flight conundrum?

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Zip-Line Flight

 

Any thoughts on the Swinging vs. Flight conundrum?

 

It all comes down to what you want your character to be able to do. Swinging is a more limited form of movement - and it is probably easier to limit flight to provide less limitation than it is to make Swinging do more.

 

If you are happy with what Swinging can give you - and your GM will be the ultimate arbiter of that - then go for that option. You might supplement the Swinging with a small multipower of swinging "tricks" that you can pull out of the bag - allowing you to get a few extra metres, or adding to your damage, or tangling an opponent up when you move by them.

 

Doc

[Greywind]

Re: Zip-Line Flight

 

My thing is this: using a swingline, just by virtue of momentum, it is fairly easy to go above the high points of the surrounding environment.

[Martin2]

Re: Zip-Line Flight

 

My thing is this: using a swingline' date=' just by virtue of momentum, it is fairly easy to go above the high points of the surrounding environment.[/quote']

 

Yes Spider man does it all the time.

[rentauri]

Re: Zip-Line Flight

 

May be a problem to get that 40 meter per phase distance on a swing in a place were the buildings are no more than one or two stories tall such as the Suburbs. While you could still swing in that environment I would think the distances would be a lot shorter then you could actually swing.

[Escafarc]

Re: Zip-Line Flight

 

May be a problem to get that 40 meter per phase distance on a swing in a place were the buildings are no more than one or two stories tall such as the Suburbs. While you could still swing in that environment I would think the distances would be a lot shorter then you could actually swing.

 

In 6E(I think it was changed in 5E too) it no longer represents a single swing per phase and no longer limited by the height of the attachment point as long as there is one. You could add those as Limitations if you want.

[Christopher]

Re: Zip-Line Flight

 

Any thoughts on the Swinging vs. Flight conundrum?

Simply put: Flight is that much better. You are not limited by height of the buildings. You might be able to add it to your STR far easier than Swinging. You can stop dead when you need it. It's easier to apply "useable as other form of movement" to it.

A flyer can easily outmaneuver a swinger just by flying upwards....

 

In 6E(I think it was changed in 5E too) it no longer represents a single swing per phase and no longer limited by the height of the attachment point as long as there is one. You could add those as Limitations if you want.

Yes. Like with Jump, one phase using Swinging does not means "one single swing". You can easily do three seperate swings of 5, 10 and 15 Meters with only 30m of Swinging in one Phase.