Help with a VPP

[JmOz]

Ok, designing a VPP, I am making it for a super soldier type who has access to a whole arsenal of weapons.

 

60 Pool

up to 60 Active Points (Control Cost: 30)

+2 Cosmic (This will allow him to change his weapons in the field, for others he is carrying)

-1/2 Limited Power, the powers chosen are based on what is available in the armory and what his commanders will allow him to have

-1/2 Limited Power: All Powers cannot have a real cost over 30 points: This is essentially a variation of Variable Limitations, requiring the power to be small or take up to -1 in limitations

-1/4 Predetermined Load. This limitation is basically that even though the character has a cosmic VPP he still has to decide on his powers and can only change them at a base, he can just go way over the pool cost with what he carries.

 

My main question is do you think the value of the limitations is appropriate, or am I double dipping any?

[Escafarc]

Re: Help with a VPP

 

I don't think you need Cosmic for this, just the 0-phase part. In fact I would drop that too.

[Escafarc]

Re: Help with a VPP

 

Now that I got my book: The skill roll would represent the "-1/2 Limited Power, the powers chosen are based on what is available in the armory and what his commanders will allow him to have" make it based on PRE. So I would drop that too

 

I've done the max Real points just like that before.

 

The "Predetermined Load" seems right. I'd also add the Focus limitation.

 

EDIT: on further thought the skill roll would take care of the "Predetermined Load" if the roll is miss either the commanders didn't authorized it or the character didn't pack it for the mission.

[steriaca]

Re: Help with a VPP

 

Humm...what if he encounters and kills an enimie? Can he be able to scavage the enimies equipment? Even add it to his weapion catch? If the device is 'to advance', will goverment 'top men' grab it for themselves?

 

Equipment scavaging happens all the time in war. The VVP should reflect this, if this charater is in a war campain (like, say, during WW2). Heck, some eleat specalist solders are ment to be lightly armed, but salvage the enimies weapions, equipment, and suplies.

 

Just food for thought...

[Christopher]

Re: Help with a VPP

 

One of the APG's has rules for "equipment pools", but those are more a tool of campaign definition.

 

I woudl simply build it as Gadget VPP, the first example VPP on 6E1 412. Since the "only in laboratory" already rules out changing in combat, you can simply leave the skill roll out. You only need a skill when you can change it in combat.

[JmOz]

Re: Help with a VPP

 

Cosmic is needed,

 

Without it he would only be able to carry 60 real points, instead of only being able to use 60 real points at a time but carry more.

[Ice9]

Re: Help with a VPP

 

Looks right, although if it's actually just weapons, the "limited type of powers" might be more than just -1/2. I would say that something like "only military gear" would be -1/2.

Predetermined load sounds about right, assuming he can carry a medium-large number of things. If he only carries a few, this could be higher.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Help with a VPP

 

Ok, designing a VPP, I am making it for a super soldier type who has access to a whole arsenal of weapons.

 

60 Pool

up to 60 Active Points (Control Cost: 30)

+2 Cosmic (This will allow him to change his weapons in the field, for others he is carrying)

-1/2 Limited Power, the powers chosen are based on what is available in the armory and what his commanders will allow him to have

-1/2 Limited Power: All Powers cannot have a real cost over 30 points: This is essentially a variation of Variable Limitations, requiring the power to be small or take up to -1 in limitations

-1/4 Predetermined Load. This limitation is basically that even though the character has a cosmic VPP he still has to decide on his powers and can only change them at a base, he can just go way over the pool cost with what he carries.

 

My main question is do you think the value of the limitations is appropriate, or am I double dipping any?

 

It seems about right if the "commanders will allow" provision is enforced.

 

I would value the first two at about -3/4.

The last one might be worth more that -1/4 if it means more than just trading out "this set of multipower slots at the base" as you've discussed previously in "utility belt" threads (like this Green Arrow update I did a while back).

 

It's worth noting that none of the listed Limitations will actually affect slot costs.

[Kraven Kor]

Re: Help with a VPP

 

-1/2 Limited Power: All Powers cannot have a real cost over 30 points: This is essentially a variation of Variable Limitations, requiring the power to be small or take up to -1 in limitations

 

I would just use Variable Limitations, but not a major issue.

[Christopher]

Re: Help with a VPP

 

How about simply a attack Multipower with Variable SFX and Variable Advantage Slots?

 

I one thought about a hero that can transform his weapon into any possible weapon (even in the middle on an attack) and while my first thought was a VPP for every weapon, I later realised that a Mutlipower with a Reach, OCV, DCV and different attacks slots - combined with some naked advantages like Autofire (fast strike) and AOE Selective (can break blocks) - can get me exactly the same result with less problems in the writeup...

 

As long as there is only a small amoun of powers you plan to use (KA's, HTH-Attack, Blast, Entangle, Flash) a Multipower is way better than an VPP.

[Escafarc]

Re: Help with a VPP

 

Cosmic is needed,

 

Without it he would only be able to carry 60 real points, instead of only being able to use 60 real points at a time but carry more.

No, all Cosmic let's you do is change the VPP as a 0 phase action and without a skill roll. 6E1 page 411

[Orion]

Re: Help with a VPP

 

I always handle these things different than most of you, mainly because I don't want to bother figuring points all the time. Works out the same in the end though. Have a list, general or specific, of the items he can carry. Decide how many of these can be carried at any one time based on strength, stealth requirements, etc. Then just let the player reconfigure on the fly as needed. Don't worry about a VPP and keeping the points the same all time. Sometimes the character is 400 points, sometimes he's 425, just because he picks up a different weapon load. Limit the effectiveness of the character, and therefore the power balance within the party, by what equipment is available to him, not by the points or power framework.

[Ice9]

Re: Help with a VPP

 

No' date=' all [i']Cosmic[/i] let's you do is change the VPP as a 0 phase action and without a skill roll. 6E1 page 411

That's the point - assuming he's using weapons that are ~60 AP, then whenever he switches weapons, he's switching the VPP. Which means that without Cosmic, dropping his pistol and drawing a grenade launcher would take a full round action and require a skill roll.

[Escafarc]

Re: Help with a VPP

 

That's the point - assuming he's using weapons that are ~60 AP' date=' then whenever he switches weapons, he's switching the VPP. Which means that without Cosmic, dropping his pistol and drawing a grenade launcher would take a full round action and require a skill roll.[/quote']

So? It still doesn't alter what powers can be in the VPP or where it can be changed or how much "equipment" can be carried which is what I'm talking about. I still don't think it needs "Cosmic".

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Help with a VPP

 

So? It still doesn't alter what powers can be in the VPP or where it can be changed or how much "equipment" can be carried which is what I'm talking about. I still don't think it needs "Cosmic".

 

 

The reason for its inclusion has already been explained in the OP

 

..the powers chosen are based on what is available in the armory and what his commanders will allow him to have

Essentially a military issue "utility belt" similar to Batman's.

In the field it functions exactly like a Multipower with slots matching exactly what the character is able to get for each specific mission/adventure.

The key is that what those slots are can change between adventures (visits to the armory).

 

.... this thread might help you understand the reasons better.

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: Help with a VPP

 

I'd tend to go with changing slots requiring a Half Phase Action rather than the Zero Phase of a Cosmic Pool, since presumably the character will have to unholster/unbuckle the new weapon to make its power usable. No skill roll to switch slots is probably appropriate if we're talking pre-existing weapons rather than something new the guy is cobbling together in the moment.

[Escafarc]

Re: Help with a VPP

 

I know what cosmic means. And I don't think it's needed for this. I could see going with 1/2 phase. And the Skill roll would be used torepresent the "-1/2 Limited Power, the powers chosen are based on what is available in the armory and what his commanders will allow him to have" and "-1/4 Predetermined Load. This limitation is basically that even though the character has a cosmic VPP he still has to decide on his powers and can only change them at a base, he can just go way over the pool cost with what he carries." a lot like the "Brownie point" system from the days of old.(I don't remember if it was in D.I., Super-Agents or elsewhere)

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Help with a VPP

 

So it seems that no one has bothered to follow the link I provided in the last post (which has been edited btw).

Doing so would help you understand what the OP is trying to do better.

[Escafarc]

Re: Help with a VPP

 

So it seems that no one has bothered to follow the link I provided in the last post (which has been edited btw).

Doing so would help you understand what the OP is trying to do better.

I wouldn't build a bat-belt with cosmic either.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Help with a VPP

 

I'd tend to go with changing slots requiring a Half Phase Action rather than the Zero Phase of a Cosmic Pool' date=' since presumably the character will have to unholster/unbuckle the new weapon to make its power usable. No skill roll to switch slots is probably appropriate if we're talking pre-existing weapons rather than something new the guy is cobbling together in the moment.[/quote']

 

So how many Multipowers have you built with a Half Phase to change slots Limitation?

[Ice9]

Re: Help with a VPP

 

I know what cosmic means. And I don't think it's needed for this.

Which part don't you think is needed? The ability to change weapons/devices as a zero-phase action' date=' or not having to make a skill roll to do so? If it's actually [i']just[/i] weapons, I could almost see requiring the skill roll (make it Fast Draw), except that the -6 penalty would require increasing Fast Draw extremely high. Once you throw in devices like night-vision goggles, you really do need both those advantages.

 

It sounds like what you're saying is that the "must pick weapon load-out at base" limitation should be considered a substitute for the skill roll, canceling an advantage with a limitation instead of having both. While not unreasonable, this isn't RAW either, and not all GMs would accept it.

 

 

Incidentally, does anyone else think that the Cosmic advantage is confusingly named? Especially since "Cosmic" is given as an example VPP SFX? I've seen more than one player under the impression that it had an effect on what powers you were allowed to have in the pool.

I don't think having both advantages needs a special name, but even if it did I'd rather call it "Reflexive" or "Instant Shift" - maybe "Instinctive", but that has its own baggage.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Help with a VPP

 

Which part don't you think is needed? The ability to change weapons/devices as a zero-phase action' date=' or not having to make a skill roll to do so? If it's actually [i']just[/i] weapons, I could almost see requiring the skill roll (make it Fast Draw), except that the -6 penalty would require increasing Fast Draw extremely high. Once you throw in devices like night-vision goggles, you really do need both those advantages.

 

It sounds like what you're saying is that the "must pick weapon load-out at base" limitation should be considered a substitute for the skill roll, canceling an advantage with a limitation instead of having both. While not unreasonable, this isn't RAW either, and not all GMs would accept it.

 

 

Incidentally, does anyone else think that the Cosmic advantage is confusingly named? Especially since "Cosmic" is given as an example VPP SFX? I've seen more than one player under the impression that it had an effect on what powers you were allowed to have in the pool.

I don't think having both advantages needs a special name, but even if it did I'd rather call it "Reflexive" or "Instant Shift" - maybe "Instinctive", but that has its own baggage.

 

Agreed.

 

"Cosmic", the combo Advantage for VPP's is completely separate from "Cosmic" the special effect. An opportunity to end this confusion of terms was missed in 6e.

[Escafarc]

Re: Help with a VPP

 

The skill roll would be for having the right weapon for the situation(INT based) or to see if the "brass" is going to let me go out and play with their newest toys(PRE based).

[Ice9]

Re: Help with a VPP

 

Ah, I see - Schrodinger's utility belt. That does work, especially for "super planning ability" types like Batman, but I don't think it's what the OP was going for.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Help with a VPP

 

Most if not all Special Forces units are trained on far more variety of equipment than they ever actually take at one time on any single mission. They are also very competent in using each mission specific "Kit" they use. This type of Limited VPP with the "Cosmic(No Skill Roll & 0 Phase to change)" Advantage is the perfect way to model this via a "Variable Mission Multipower" concept. So it might seem too complex for some folks campaigns. That's great, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But it is completely legal according to RAW (Rules As Written).