Star Wars Hero: Why should I? (or not)

[Christopher]

Re: Star Wars Hero: Why should I? (or not)

 

I'm new to Hero System but an old hand at WEG Wars. I think easier to acquire play balance when designing races and templates as more useful races and templates would be measured by the points paid for them. The hardest part' date=' at first, would be turning Jedi powers into Hero System powers.[/quote']

Practically hero already has most of the powers:

Telekinesis, Characteristics/Movement as Powers, Overall Skill Levels, Deflection/Relfection. Usually there are only problems when people try to mimic very small/minor things or things with a granularity far below what hero supports (anything with less than +/- 10% of success isn't possible).

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Star Wars Hero: Why should I? (or not)

 

Here's the definitive Star Wars/HERO compilation thread by TheQuestionMan:

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/30644-Star-Wars-Hero-Resources?highlight=star+wars

[Dr Divago]

Re: Star Wars Hero: Why should I? (or not)

 

Sustaining Lightsaber combat allone means -2d6 to any action. Every otehr force power means anotehr -1. And as far as I understood' date=' this one Meditation Power only provides you a +6 to rolls, not +2d6 (if you manage to sustain it 6 hours and wake up in time...)[/quote']Well, don't whanna go deep into d6 system but lightsaber combat is ONE power so it's only -1D (as for 2nd ed revised and correct); Meditation is up to +6, but it's not too difficult to achieve if a jedi meditate helped by a medical droid/medic mate in his cargo freighter during hypespace travel (not really difficult in a player group)

Battle Meditation increase combat-related stats for a while and another one link N people and all togheter get +1D / three people linked (don't remember exactly the name... battle coordination?)

plus Enhance Attribute increase up to +3D to attribute for one round (or +1D for three round that's even simpler) and does'nt count as an active power

Concentration is +4D to one single skill roll (-1D for extra action for a total of +3D but it's very difficult to do in combat and you can't take other actions)

those powers come from "Star Wars RPG second edition revised and correct", "Guide to [Thrawn Trilogy]" and from "Tales of the Jedi Companion"

also, binding to own lightsaber (again, tales of the jedi companion) give +1D

 

btw, i totally agree d6 system is ok for Civil War campaign (ep IV-VI) where jedi need to stay hidden, are very rare, can't retrieve a master or an holocron (master substitute), have great difficulties finding powers, etc

but in Clone Wars (ep II-III) campaign, or Old Repubblic campaign (KotOR and KotOR2... i don't mention Old Republlic game 'cause i did not play it), or Tales of the Jedi campaign... it has to be veeeeeery easy to be a powerful Jedi. And way too powerful compared to a non jedi

this is why i think hero could be more... equilibrate...

 

of course there are a lot of way to stop a jedi; even a "simple" Droideka is a big menace (but it seems to me that Droideka got nerfed after ep I...)

 

Damages Weapons when touching the blade (i.e. when user blocks). Blade is energy' date=' only the part in the hand is attackable.[/quote']well, it's a focus; OAF in my opinion, and you can disarm, attack it or like.

of course, damage weapons when touching the blade is a good thing

maybe a better way could be building it like a damage shield 1m... or just handle it as a special effect same way i do with a flame sword spell in fantasy

but at the moment i'm not arguing how to make it

just asking...

I think that rule is mostly for superhero-campaings.

as a GM i'll permit it for lightsaber combat...

[Christopher]

Re: Star Wars Hero: Why should I? (or not)

 

Well' date=' don't whanna go deep into d6 system but lightsaber combat is ONE power so it's only -1D (as for 2nd ed revised and correct); Meditation is up to +6, but it's not too difficult to achieve if a jedi meditate helped by a medical droid/medic mate in his cargo freighter during hypespace travel (not really difficult in a player group)[/quote']

Afaik (don't have the rulebook handy) it counted at -1d6 for each Force Specialty (Sense, Controll, Alter) used to activate the power. So Lightsaber combat wich requires Controll and Sense, counts as two actions to maintain.

The only exception was, that you could activate it over the course of two turns (one roll per turn) without the second roll incurring the -1d6. But actualyl maintaining it in following turns counted as two actions.

[Dr Divago]

Re: Star Wars Hero: Why should I? (or not)

 

Here's the definitive Star Wars/HERO compilation thread by TheQuestionMan:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/30644-Star-Wars-Hero-Resources?highlight=star+wars

yeah, i know it

however, at the moment i'm just arguing if it worth spending time on it or just use my time to my superheroic campaign and use d6 system whenever i'll need it...

[Tasha]

Re: Star Wars Hero: Why should I? (or not)

 

It could be argued that the Light Saber is actually only Restrainable. You can disarm a Jedi, but they TK their weapon right back into their hands. You can make it a "Real Weapon" to reflect the need for upkeep and the fact that a Saber can be destroyed. Though I think that Anakin was rocking a couple of dice of Unluck to make his life "interesting". I never saw any other jedis lose/have their sabers destroyed (yeah Darth Maul, but his was only damaged and one blade still worked). So it's possible that only Anakin was that unlucky.

 

BTW Light Saber Deflection isn't just Missile Deflection/Reflection. IMHO Missile Deflection/Reflection is when the Jedi is Actively deflecting bolts with a mind toward reflection. The automatic deflection that happens when a Jedi's saber is on should be modeled with Extra DCV vs Ranged Attacks.

 

I really don't think that you have to make Jedi Head and Shoulders above a Non PC in power. Even in the New Republic Era, it's possible for regular people to kill Jedi. Heck that's just what happened at the end of the Clone War when the Clones got their Order to Kill the Jedi. I would recommend making the PC's bigger than life (ie more powerful than all but the elite opponents) ie They cut through Stormtroopers like butter, but the Elite Stormtroopers should give them a challenge.

 

Again I wouldn't stress too hard about making Light Sabers the unstoppable wands of destruction that too many fans assume they are. Remember that it took quite some time for Qui-gon and Obi-Wan to cut a hole in the shielded bulkhead in EP I. So keep them balanced against blasters DC wise and make up the difference in Armor piercing and Penetrating.

 

Also, the Droids from the Trade Federation army are weak, but under good leadership (ie General Greavous) they are a danger in large numbers. Also there are huge numbers of droids and less than a hundred Jedi that can fight. It seems that Jedi cannot deflect Tank blaster shots.

[Christopher]

Re: Star Wars Hero: Why should I? (or not)

 

Again I wouldn't stress too hard about making Light Sabers the unstoppable wands of destruction that too many fans assume they are. Remember that it took quite some time for Qui-gon and Obi-Wan to cut a hole in the shielded bulkhead in EP I. So keep them balanced against blasters DC wise and make up the difference in Armor piercing and Penetrating.

One of the reasons I tend towards double penetrating. It can cut through a 20 ED (Impenetrable, Hardened), 20 Body Bulkhead given time. One that would stop any Blaster or Fire.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Star Wars Hero: Why should I? (or not)

 

It could be argued that the Light Saber is actually only Restrainable. You can disarm a Jedi' date=' but they TK their weapon right back into their hands. You can make it a "Real Weapon" to reflect the need for upkeep and the fact that a Saber can be destroyed. Though I think that Anakin was rocking a couple of dice of Unluck to make his life "interesting". I never saw any other jedis lose/have their sabers destroyed (yeah Darth Maul, but his was only damaged and one blade still worked). So it's possible that only Anakin was that unlucky.[/quote']

 

Jedi don't normally lose their sabers because during their apprenticeship, they have it hammered into their heads that the lightsaber is their lifeline and if they lose it, they are dead meat. Thus with their Force enhanced awareness, they are aware of it at all times and instinctively use TK to get it back if they are disarmed. I think Anakin kept losing his saber because he was arrogant to the point of thinking that he was just "too good" to ever lose his saber or get disarmed, so in the situations where it happened, he wasn't prepared for it like most Jedi who keep this thought in the back of their minds.

 

BTW Light Saber Deflection isn't just Missile Deflection/Reflection. IMHO Missile Deflection/Reflection is when the Jedi is Actively deflecting bolts with a mind toward reflection. The automatic deflection that happens when a Jedi's saber is on should be modeled with Extra DCV vs Ranged Attacks.

 

Years ago when developing my own Star Wars Hero campaign, I came up with Jedi deflection as Missile Deflection with the Uncontrolled Advantage. Basically the Jedi must take his first action to "activate" Missile Deflection, and from that point onward, he/she can deflect blaster bolts and missiles without actually using a phase to do so. Multiple deflection attempts accrue the -2 cumulative penalty as normal, but on the beginning of the Jedi's next action phase, the penalty drops back to zero. The missile deflection turns off either when the battle is done and the jedi deactivates his lightsaber or if the Jedi misses a deflection attempt, at which point the power must be "activated" again. I did not normally allow Uncontrolled to be combined with Reflection...that required an attack action to accomplish.

 

I really don't think that you have to make Jedi Head and Shoulders above a Non PC in power. Even in the New Republic Era, it's possible for regular people to kill Jedi. Heck that's just what happened at the end of the Clone War when the Clones got their Order to Kill the Jedi. I would recommend making the PC's bigger than life (ie more powerful than all but the elite opponents) ie They cut through Stormtroopers like butter, but the Elite Stormtroopers should give them a challenge.

 

That's what I recommend. The Jedi should be built on the same points as everyone else, which is very feasible as long as you allow Jedi to use a Multipower for their Force abilities. Jango Fett was able to kill a couple of Jedi in the Arena battle in AotC. Heck, battledroids were able to kill many Jedi in that fight due to superior numbers and overwhelming firepower. The "average" Jedi is not a superbeing, merely an "enhanced" being capable of some amazing but not quite unimaginable feats. Only the most powerful of Jedi are so powerful that they seem like superheroes. (Yoda, Mace, Obi-Wan etc)

 

In an all Jedi campaign, you can cut loose and let the players run the more powerful Jedi types and get a little crazy on the Force abilities, because you don't have to worry about the non-Jedi feeling left out. That kinda game can be pretty fun.

 

Again I wouldn't stress too hard about making Light Sabers the unstoppable wands of destruction that too many fans assume they are. Remember that it took quite some time for Qui-gon and Obi-Wan to cut a hole in the shielded bulkhead in EP I. So keep them balanced against blasters DC wise and make up the difference in Armor piercing and Penetrating.

 

Lightsabers should be made powerful enough to cut through most mundane materials without too much trouble, yet there should be some materials that give them problems. I personally support a fairly high Damage Class combined with Armor Piercing and/or Penetrating (or Piercing) versus the seemingly more popular option of NND or AVLD does Body. Make a Lightsaber 3D6K APx2 and there's not much armor that can stand up to that. An armored Blast Door with a hardened Defense of 20 and 15 Body may take a few phases to cut through though, which is pretty much how it went down in the movies.

 

Also, the Droids from the Trade Federation army are weak, but under good leadership (ie General Greavous) they are a danger in large numbers. Also there are huge numbers of droids and less than a hundred Jedi that can fight. It seems that Jedi cannot deflect Tank blaster shots.

 

Absolutely. Individually the droids A.I. was inadequate...even stupid. However add in a Droid Control Ship or waysation into the mix and those suckers were dangerous, as seen in the Battle of Geonosia in AotC. With a droid commander capable of having the droids under its command utilize tactics and mass their fire together, 20 droids vs 1 Jedi will usually equal a dead Jedi. Even a Jedi will get hit when the Multiple Attacker penalty to their DCV is -10...

[Christopher]

Re: Star Wars Hero: Why should I? (or not)

 

Absolutely. Individually the droids A.I. was inadequate...even stupid. However add in a Droid Control Ship or waysation into the mix and those suckers were dangerous' date=' as seen in the Battle of Geonosia in AotC. With a droid commander capable of having the droids under its command utilize tactics and mass their fire together, 20 droids vs 1 Jedi will usually equal a dead Jedi. Even a Jedi will get hit when the Multiple Attacker penalty to their DCV is -10...[/quote']

Defense Maneuver II (5 points) can coutner that. And I can easily see them buying defense Maneuver IV, with the Force as SFX.

[Bolon]

Re: Star Wars Hero: Why should I? (or not)

 

I just saw this thread and wanted to comment on the fact that a lightsaber has no stun setting. If hit by a lightsaber, you kill or cut off things. The usage of items as weapons by TKing them at an opponent is actually more light side than dark due to the kill aspect of a lightsaber.

 

Secondly, I was in a SW campaign of the Knights of Old Republic. The GM made up all Jedi powers in a multipower as slots and we bought the slots and slot categories as we gained Exp Points. This gave him a lot of control and us a lot of control. Our disadvantages included a code of Jedi which was what was required to control the dark side aspects. If you started to act evil, you had to atone or turn over your character to be an NPC. Simple.

 

Lastly, Lucas created this world and all should "bow" down to his greatness but he really was not a great storywriter. He relied on some very stupid plot tricks to increase suspense including Anakin losing his lightsaber all the time, made the Jedi superpowerful but careless, and retrowrote the explanation of the force. All this was just done to move his story along since it was weak at times and needed to fit his story arc. The Jedi could feel the pain of a planet dying or Anakin killing sand people from across the universe but not the evil ideas of some weak-minded clones before they killed them. Only a few were able to pick this up when they were hardened veterans of the Clone Wars. Yoda knew instantly and killed them superfast without hestitation to survive. Why didn't all the rest? "Plot Point" Lucas was the best engineer in that moment to create a story as he wanted rather than a natural flow. Watch all the amazing stuff that the individual Jedi do in the Clone Wars and you will wonder why they all dropped their guard and were killed so easily. "Plot Point" It had to go that way for his story to work out even though he filmed it very badly.

[Christopher]

Re: Star Wars Hero: Why should I? (or not)

 

The Jedi could feel the pain of a planet dying or Anakin killing sand people from across the universe but not the evil ideas of some weak-minded clones before they killed them. Only a few were able to pick this up when they were hardened veterans of the Clone Wars. Yoda knew instantly and killed them superfast without hestitation to survive. Why didn't all the rest? "Plot Point" Lucas was the best engineer in that moment to create a story as he wanted rather than a natural flow. Watch all the amazing stuff that the individual Jedi do in the Clone Wars and you will wonder why they all dropped their guard and were killed so easily. "Plot Point" It had to go that way for his story to work out even though he filmed it very badly.

I have to disagree on many levels:

First, the Clones weren't evil. Or hatefull. They were just following a normal order like "storm that hill" or "hold that position".

Second, the Jedi in general did not expected it. Even if they felt that there was a danger, the last place they would have looked would be right behind them. After all, the Clones were their allies, proven in hundrets of battles.

Third, Yoda is just awsome. What was his stated age again, 900 Years? He propably had a powerlevel and understanding of the force better than anyone else, except the emperor. The fact that he singlehandedly overruled the council on the question of taking up Anakin should make obvious that he had a special postion even in the Jedi Council.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Star Wars Hero: Why should I? (or not)

 

Defense Maneuver II (5 points) can coutner that. And I can easily see them buying defense Maneuver IV' date=' with the Force as SFX.[/quote']

 

absolutely. However from the description of the Jedi order in the Republic era before The Purge, a lot of Jedi had stopped concentrating on the more martial aspects of their training and concentrated more on the diplomatic aspects, which is why they were killed by battledroids and such. Those Jedi who didn't neglect the combat aspects of their training survived. I would say that those Jedi who didn't neglect their training bought Defense Maneuver, those who did likely did not purchase it, and mainly would rely upon the standard Force enabled Danger Sense and their ability to dodge....which while effective at most times, wouldn't work as well when faced against a lot of battledroids coordinating their fire.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Star Wars Hero: Why should I? (or not)

 

And now for your viewing pleasure: The second baddest MotherForcer in the galaxy....

 

http://youtu.be/7A07WNupEXk

 

This is how I like to run my Star Wars games

[Christopher]

Re: Star Wars Hero: Why should I? (or not)

 

During a training with Coutn Doku Greivous was instructed:

"If you plan to take on the best of the Jedi, you need suprise, fear and intimidation on your side. If one part is lacking, you better retreat."

After just beating Shaki + 3 Jedi Redshirts and successfully abducting the Cancelor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_K-Rkx23x

 

He kind of forgot for a moment:

 

Directly after that Scene the first "Clone Wars" series ends and episode 3 starts. And Yes, Windu is badass...

[Dr Divago]

Re: Star Wars Hero: Why should I? (or not)

 

BTW Light Saber Deflection isn't just Missile Deflection/Reflection. IMHO Missile Deflection/Reflection is when the Jedi is Actively deflecting bolts with a mind toward reflection. The automatic deflection that happens when a Jedi's saber is on should be modeled with Extra DCV vs Ranged Attacks.

 

I really don't think that you have to make Jedi Head and Shoulders above a Non PC in power. Even in the New Republic Era, it's possible for regular people to kill Jedi. Heck that's just what happened at the end of the Clone War when the Clones got their Order to Kill the Jedi. I would recommend making the PC's bigger than life (ie more powerful than all but the elite opponents) ie They cut through Stormtroopers like butter, but the Elite Stormtroopers should give them a challenge.

well the balancing and "not making jedi too powerful than PC" is the reason i'd like to use Hero System vs d6 system

in my idea, lightsaber is a weapon: thus can be destroyed, stolen, lost or like. ofc, is a focus... OAF or maybe OIF 'cause you can't just declare a disarm to take over a lightsaber from a jedi

 

i'd stick to a lightsaber as a 3-4 DC of killing attack plus some level of penetrating (and maybe AP?); penetrating would cover most of the sfx where jedi effectively cut through enemies' armors but still can't cut a fighter in half; also, a 20 ED armored door could not stop a jedi with a lightsaber if he got enough time to cut the door one body per phase

 

i like your idea of "extra DCV vs Range" for simply casual blaster deflection; and if a jedi whant to reflect or actively deflect (ie when he need to defend some helpless guy from blaster shots) he need to buy power deflection and reflection.

also, to increase damage or other "combat prowess" (like the aforementioned Defense Maneuver) he need to buy it as jedi powers or jedi-only talents

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Star Wars Hero: Why should I? (or not)

 

This is how I built a Lightsaber in 5e if intended for a cross-genre game:

 

45 Lightsaber: (Total: 138 Active Cost, 45 Real Cost) Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Armor Piercing (+1/2), Penetrating (x3; +1 1/2) (52 Active Points); OAF (-1), STR Minimum 10 (STR Min. Cannot Add/Subtract Damage; -1), No Range (-1/2), No Knockback (-1/4) (Real Cost: 14) plus Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Armor Piercing (+1/2), Damage Shield (Offensive; Only vs. targets touching the blade; +3/4), Continuous (+1), Penetrating (x3; +1 1/2) (86 Active Points); OAF (-1), Linked (Killing Attack - Ranged; -1/4), Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Only vs. objects touching the blade; -1/4), No Knockback (-1/4) (Real Cost: 31)

 

In 6e the +1/2 Level of AP would be x2AP but that might be counterbalanced by the changes to "Damage Shield" (being folded into the Area Affect Advantage via "Surface").

 

It's effectively a 2d6 KA that does 1dKA vs. any non-energy based HTH weapon used to block it. It will do 1-2 points of Body vs. nearly anything.

Battle-Droid's shields would need to be built with enough Hardened & Impenetrateble to stop it as well.

Of course, if only intended for a Star Wars game you could just trade out the AP & Penetrating for NND/AVAD defined as other sabers and forcefields.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Star Wars Hero: Why should I? (or not)

 

He did survived that encouter with the Sarlac. And he managed to follow them to Bespin.

And you should see how his father (he is actually his fathers clone - along with the entire republic clone army) in the prequels, he fought Kenobi to a standstill. Also, the writeup I have for WEG Star Wars and all other accounts sugest he is "awsome" at what he does.

 

He survived the Sarlacc because of the novel Bounty Hunter Wars-which then became cannon.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Star Wars Hero: Why should I? (or not)

 

What game effects has "being half wookie" and how does this affect the starting Atribute dice? How about not having the wookie life debt? This is the difficult factor when chaging races in WEG.

In hero, I can give you an answer to this down to the last point.

 

No-its only as difficult as the Gm and player makes it. Using hero has some better guidelines, but that doesn't mean that it can't be done in WEG. Btw, you still have to determine what value you choose some of the things a half-wookie has. You can buy life debt at minor, major, or total unless a GM detrimines what it should be, but between two different GM's the value could be different.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Star Wars Hero: Why should I? (or not)

 

Hero is so superior for playing Star Wars, it's not even funny.

 

Really?

 

Item 1) Increase the staring dice a group of jedis start out with. As for speed and actions. On the surface Hero does have the adavantage here. But then depending on heroic vs superheroic builds can have an effect on speed. not saying that it isn't possible, but I haven't seen too many heroic builds past speed 4. And if you want the Jedis to be more competant, give them more dice, force points and character points.

 

Item 2) Change it.

 

Item 3) Change it. as with item 2, you can always can a rule or delete it. As Steve Long once posted to me, its not like the Gaming Police are going to jump out and arrest you if you change a rule. (Well at least hero wouldn't at the time!) Now again where hero is better, especially if your unsure of change, is by having a point system, things should be easier to spot balance, but as we know, that still isn't fool proof.

 

Item 4) Maybe if the aliens are rubberskinned, yeah they're fairly simple. Anyhthing complex, WEG is absolutely easier. Lets see to make an alien, you just put down what the racial min/max is (remember that human is 2d/4d so you shouldn't go much higher, and if one stat is higher another should be lower) give it special abilities, and by that you right down what it does, and try to give it story factors to even it out. Note that the shoulds are guidelines not a rule. WEG creation is way easier to abuse, but still alot easier to do than Hero system. And no restrictions? There is none in WEG, in hero technically there is none, but lets be reasonable, your not going to give someone a carte blanc in character creation. tHere are certain builds that can wreak havoc with a game. I once built (for a supers game) a ghost-like character that had desolid-affects physical world, and then I added life support while my character was desolid. He never had to become solid during the game.

 

Item 5) Again add dice as you want.

 

Now I'll give you a reason why WEG can be superior to Hero. Do to its fast and loose nature, you can adapt, create, and change on the fly. If you don't like it fine, then its not your cup of tea.

[mkultra]

Re: Star Wars Hero: Why should I? (or not)

 

Apparently' date=' this "immunity" isn't even an absolute.[/quote']

Only a Sith deals in absolutes:).

[Dr Divago]

Re: Star Wars Hero: Why should I? (or not)

 

Only a Sith deals in absolutes:).

you know, i had to +1 rep for this!!

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Star Wars Hero: Why should I? (or not)

 

Only a Sith deals in absolutes:).

 

Apparently George Lucas didn't think this line out logically. And after watching the interview with Oprah, I just sadly shake my head. Oprah asked him about god and he contradicted himself at least three times.

[Zen Archer]

Re: Star Wars Hero: Why should I? (or not)

 

Only a Sith deals in absolutes:).

 

Do or do not; there is no Try - Yoda.

 

Hmmm...

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: Star Wars Hero: Why should I? (or not)

 

Star Wars Hero Resources

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/30644-Star-Wars-Hero-Resources

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: Star Wars Hero: Why should I? (or not)

 

Part 2 Downloads