Unofficial Advanced Player's Guide 3 Survey.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Unofficial Advanced Player's Guide 3 Survey.

 

What Derek said. More options for handling money in-game would be nice, though. I don't know that straight money-to-points conversions will work all that well, though.

[steriaca]

Re: Unoficial Advance Players Guide 3 Survay.

 

You might want to consult the 2nd APG' date=' and 4th and 5th edition Ultimate Mentalist books. The 2nd APG did have mental martial arts maneuvers in it, in a section either just before or just after the Social Combat rules.[/quote']

 

Just got APG2, so I have at least looked at thoes rules. Don't have eather copy of The Ultimate Mentlist. What I was thinking of is a system like one pages 92-105 of the Hero System Martial Arts book, but for mental powers.

[gojira]

Re: Unofficial Advanced Player's Guide 3 Survey.

 

I was thinking it would work for a lot of situations, like fantasy and space opera, where realistic numbers are hard to pin down. For everything else, the sample historical price list would help pin down realistic price ranges.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Unofficial Advanced Player's Guide 3 Survey.

 

MetaPower rules: Rules for using given powers to create 'new' powers with effects we mostly all can agree on.

Examples: Boost (Aid, Cost Endurance to Maintain, -1/2), Boon (Aid, Delayed Fade Rate (1 Centery, +4), Limited Power (All Points Fade When A Certan Action Or Set Of Actions Happens, -1), Aid Others Only (-1)), Destroy (Drain, Delayed Return Rate (1 Centery, +4), Limited Power (All Points Return When A Certan Action Or Set Of Actions Happens, -1)), Instant Change (Cosmetic Transformation, Area of Effect (Surface, +1/4), No Range (-1/2)), Suppress (Drain, Cost Endurance To Maintain, -1/2), Transfer (Drain, Unified Power -1/4, and Aid, standard effect: same result on dice as Drain roll, Trigger (when using Drain, no time to activate, resets automaticly, +1), Linked (to Drain, -1/2), Unified Power -1/4).

 

These are just power builds, rather than new rules, which I think Steve has tried to avoid in APG's. They'd be good for a Powers book, though, such as a Superpowers, High Sci Fi Tech or Grimoire book.

 

Secondary Endurance rules: Buying a second END stat for certan campains where things like 'eveyone can tap into magic' is common (MANA)' date=' or where 'eveyone can tap intio mental energys but fee can use it' are common (Mental Endurance, MEND), or where 'eveyone can tap into C'hi' are common (CHI). This in not exactly the same as requiering eveyone to buy an Endurance Reserve, for if the reserve runs dry, it then goes directly to STUN (like normal running out of END).[/quote']

 

This seems like a good APG topic, but could also be a good inclusion in a setting book.

 

Sanity rules: The SAN charateristic' date=' and what is the starting value, and how to damage SAN for thoes who can't wait for Horror Hero 6ed.[/quote']

 

Another good one for genre, setting or APG.

 

Expanded Weapion Familiarity list: Can I buy WF: Power Tools for my undead killer of foolish teenagers' date=' please?[/quote']

 

Perhaps the rules for improvised weapons could be expanded - ie why do I take a -3 to hit if I swing a knife at you (with no WF) but no penalty for swinging a chair or a broken bottle. WF Rules for improvised weapons, please!

 

Mental Martial Arts' date=' build rules: I just got Hero System Martial Arts, and I always pondered how to use thoes rules to buy Mental Martial Arts. It must be possable.[/quote']

 

Again, good fodder for an APG or a Mentalist campaign setting (along with that PsiEnd stat).

 

New Advantage: Awsome Power. This advantage' date=' for +1/4, adds +1d6 to all Presence Attacks used right after the attack (along with other adds to Presence). For an aditinal +1/4, it adds another +1d6, and it can go on forever if the GM wishes.[/quote']

 

OK. My 60 AP Multipower gets another slot for 1d6 Blast, Awesome Power (+11), so I add 44d6 to my PRE attacks after using it. While anyone not fleeing in abject terror stands there, slack-mouthed, I'll switch to my 12d6 Blast and Multiple Power Attack.

 

New Limitation: Lackluster Power. This limitation lessens Presence Attacks by -1d6 for each -1/4 bought with it. It is oveous that you can't buy both Awsome Power and Lackluster Power for the same power.

 

In that case, maybe I need a VPP so I can put Lackluster Power on my non-Awesome blast to reduce the real point cost, and I'll buy a high AP limit on my VPP. hmmm...60 point pool, 60 point control cost (cosmic +2, Blasts only -2) and I can swap between 1d6 Awesome (+44d6 PRE attacks) and 24d6 Lacklustre (-4d6 PRE attacks) at will.

 

While I like the general idea of the "Awesome Power" advantage' date=' it seems like just buying extra PRE, offensive only, linked to Power X(-1/2 level), would be a lot cheaper, at 2.5 points per +1d6 PRE attack. If you got to add a quarter or half of the base points of the power to your PRE attack, it might be more worthwhile. Ditto for the limitation--if it reduced your PRE attack by 25% or 50%, it'd be more worthwhile.[/quote']

 

That seems more reasonable - buy a Linked bonus to PRE attacks (Lacklustre sounds like a very tiny side effect). Or Awesome should add, say, 1d6 PRE attack for, say, every 2 DC's of the power (12d6 Blast costs 75 points, adds 6d6 PRE attack which would cost the same 15 points bought under Megaplayboy's model).

 

I think APG's should focus on actual rule changes or additions (a lot of which should be caution or stop sign abilities) designed to do things the system can't do, or can only do in a very difficult/arbitrary/kludgy manner.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Unofficial Advanced Player's Guide 3 Survey.

 

I think, when I suggested Reality Alteration as a new power, I had in mind that simulating the effects of altering physical reality is actually pretty kludgy--you need a Power Framework like a VPP or Multipower, and powers like Transform, Telekinesis, and Change Environment, and then have to work up a bunch of funky advantages and limitations for them. So if there were some way to approximate all that, or to have some kind of "standardized" or specialized Power Framework, with a set of consistent rules/guidelines and appropriate advantages and limitations, that might be helpful. Done properly, you could even simulate a Wish, without that mother-of-all-mechanics-dodges that's currently suggested.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Unofficial Advanced Player's Guide 3 Survey.

 

Hmmm...I guess I shouldn't suggest "EDM, UAA, AoE, Megascale, IPE" for Reality Aleration...

[gojira]

Re: Unofficial Advanced Player's Guide 3 Survey.

 

Not unless you also want to suggest a write up for "b*tch-slap."

 

The GM's Prayer: "Let us pray the GM's Prayer. Lord, please pray for the soul of this player-b!tch and guide my GM hand and make it strong, Lord, so that she might learn a player's place. Amen."

[megaplayboy]

Re: Unofficial Advanced Player's Guide 3 Survey.

 

A summary of the ideas proposed thus far:

 

1. One thing that might be cool is a "version translator." A set of official guidelines for converting characters from each previous edition of the HERO System into the 6E rules...

2. The only thing I would like is a skill system I came up with: Basically each skill would be written as a -/+ to a characteristic roll (1 point is a -4, 2 points -2, 3 points is 0, +2 points/+1) Then in play the GM would decide which characteristic best represents the skill needed, For instance Demolitions might be INT, or DEX based, or could be used to Identify a type of bomb with an INT roll. Another example is that Acrobatics might be used to know who won the Olympic Gold in 92...

3. I would add 'Secondary Endurance' in the stats section (if it is not covered in APG2, that is). That is for the 'eveybody can tap into, but not eveyone knows how to use' campains (Chi, in martial arts centered campains, Mana for Fantacy Hero, Mentel Endurance for 'psichic wars' campains, ect.

4. I would proably have a guide to creating 'metapowers' (new powers based on using existing powers and tweeking them, like my version of Instant Change).

5. Options for simulating 'Transfer' better.

6. Alcohol and recreational drugs. Seriously--what are the effects of mild to severe intoxication and/or being "high", in game terms?

7. Mental illness.

8. Reviving the "stress level" and PRE attack effects from 4th edition Horror Hero.

9. The Diceless Hero option. Maybe along with "Point-less Hero".

10. Adjusting real-world objects to a superhero setting(essentially, making it easier for supers to punch through tank armor, shrug off heavy artillery etc.)

11. Damage options--exponential and semi-logarithmic damage progression(with benchmarks); collateral damage; brick tricks like hand claps and shockwaves; extended stunning(e.g., for every 5 stun over the "stun number", -1 to CON roll to recover from being stunned, penalties if you're still being attacked, etc.); non-stun/body damage(e.g. punching someone in the solar plexus to reduce their endurance, hitting them in the arm or leg to reduce mobility/cv, etc.)

12. Relationship rules--obviously an optional rule, but something to at least give the option to flesh out and mechanically resolve dating, relationships/marriage, even physical intimacy.

13. Vehicle rules--terrain effects on movement; visibility; more detailed rules for what happens to the occupants when a vehicle crashes or has a collision; sailing ships and oared vessels; tracked vs. wheeled vs. "walking" vehicles; fuel/range; etc.

14. Modern and futuristic mass combat; fleet (space/naval) combat variants; aerial/space combat variants; superpowered beings in mass combat

15. Perk options--Popularity; more money options(maybe including Access, equipment, etc.); Follower loyalty levels; "Ablative" contacts(i.e., it's like a Favor, with charges, or a contact with a diminishing roll)

16. Talents--"Poker Face"(bonus to gambling, acting, persuasion), "Ladies Man/Man's woman/People pleaser"(bonuses to charm, conversation, persuasion, et al.), "Gift for Gab", "Fast Learner"(variant on cramming), Unlimited Potential(in a campaign with NCM, this represents the ability to exceed them without paying a penalty, for one or more stats), etc.

17. Powers--Reality Alteration, Advantage: Permanent Effect, Advantage: Automatic Effect(e.g., attack automatically hits, automatically does damage/full damage, etc.), Defense: Effect Avoidance, Advantage: Noncombat CV(i.e., this allows attack/defense at combat CV values while moving at noncombat speeds), etc.

18. Alternate d4, d8, d10, d12, d20 & d100 rules.

19. & an acknowledgement of Extraordinary Characteristic rolls

20. I would add that I would love to see more self-contained powers, basically taking an effect that currently requires several advantages and limitations chained together to achieve the effect.

 

Basically, do away with the need to remember such complex builds and restait the effect you want to achieve as a single unified power build

21. Poison Power

22. Disease Power

23. Also, I would take a close look at all of the HeroGlyph articles as I don't think all of those interesting optional powers have been carried forward.

24. MetaPower rules: Rules for using given powers to create 'new' powers with effects we mostly all can agree on.

Examples: Boost (Aid, Cost Endurance to Maintain, -1/2), Boon (Aid, Delayed Fade Rate (1 Centery, +4), Limited Power (All Points Fade When A Certan Action Or Set Of Actions Happens, -1), Aid Others Only (-1)), Destroy (Drain, Delayed Return Rate (1 Centery, +4), Limited Power (All Points Return When A Certan Action Or Set Of Actions Happens, -1)), Instant Change (Cosmetic Transformation, Area of Effect (Surface, +1/4), No Range (-1/2)), Suppress (Drain, Cost Endurance To Maintain, -1/2), Transfer (Drain, Unified Power -1/4, and Aid, standard effect: same result on dice as Drain roll, Trigger (when using Drain, no time to activate, resets automaticly, +1), Linked (to Drain, -1/2), Unified Power -1/4).

25. Or, at least, make Instant Change a power again

26. Secondary Endurance rules: Buying a second END stat for certan campains where things like 'eveyone can tap into magic' is common (MANA), or where 'eveyone can tap intio mental energys but fee can use it' are common (Mental Endurance, MEND), or where 'eveyone can tap into C'hi' are common (CHI). This in not exactly the same as requiering eveyone to buy an Endurance Reserve, for if the reserve runs dry, it then goes directly to STUN (like normal running out of END).

27. Sanity rules: The SAN charateristic, and what is the starting value, and how to damage SAN for thoes who can't wait for Horror Hero 6ed.

28. Expanded Weapon Familiarity list: Can I buy WF: Power Tools for my undead killer of foolish teenagers, please?

29. Mental Martial Arts, build rules: I just got Hero System Martial Arts, and I always pondered how to use thoes rules to buy Mental Martial Arts. It must be possible.

30. New Advantage: Awesome Power. This advantage, for +1/4, adds +1d6 to all Presence Attacks used right after the attack (along with other adds to Presence). For an additional +1/4, it adds another +1d6, and it can go on forever if the GM wishes.

31. New Limitation: Lackluster Power. This limitation lessens Presence Attacks by -1d6 for each -1/4 bought with it. It is oveous that you can't buy both Awsome Power and Lackluster Power for the same power.

1. While I like the general idea of the "Awesome Power" advantage, it seems like just buying extra PRE, offensive only, linked to Power X(-1/2 level), would be a lot cheaper, at 2.5 points per +1d6 PRE attack. If you got to add a quarter or half of the base points of the power to your PRE attack, it might be more worthwhile. Ditto for the limitation--if it reduced your PRE attack by 25% or 50%, it'd be more worthwhile.

 

32. Some ideas for handling money in game worlds, and ideas for converting Active Points and Real Points into money. Convert Resource Pools into Money and go from there; there should be a one to one function like $5000 per character point in the resource pool. Let the rest falls where it will.

 

33. Plus a list of historical prices for as much stuff as we can get our little mitts on. I'll throw in modern prices too, on the basis that they'll be historical as soon as the work is published, and therefore fit right in with the other historical stuff. Plus some future tech prices. Post-Apoc, High Tech, grim and gritty, trade rules for games like Traveller, cyberwear.

34. I think, when I suggested Reality Alteration as a new power, I had in mind that simulating the effects of altering physical reality is actually pretty kludgy--you need a Power Framework like a VPP or Multipower, and powers like Transform, Telekinesis, and Change Environment, and then have to work up a bunch of funky advantages and limitations for them. So if there were some way to approximate all that, or to have some kind of "standardized" or specialized Power Framework, with a set of consistent rules/guidelines and appropriate advantages and limitations, that might be helpful. Done properly, you could even simulate a Wish, without that mother-of-all-mechanics-dodges that's currently suggested.

 

I think we could wait until we get X number of ideas(50? 101?) to start a new thread trying to write those up, or we could wait until a set deadline(a week? the end of the month/first of next month) and do it. I'd suggest we try to get to 101 ideas by the end of the month. At (spitballing here) 1000 words per idea, we'd have enough material for a 200 page book, which is about the ballpark for an APG.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Unofficial Advanced Player's Guide 3 Survey.

 

35. rules clarification/explanation for "spirit Transforms"--what the heck are they, and how do they differ from physical or mental transforms?

[megaplayboy]

Re: Unofficial Advanced Player's Guide 3 Survey.

 

36. Diceless mental powers--you make an attack roll, modified by the level of control you want to get. The target rolls to "block". In the event the command level is in the "strongly against" or "goes against strong/total psych complications" or equivalent thereof, they also get an EGO vs. EGO breakout roll, with appropriate bonuses. Breakout rolls would be EGO vs. EGO, with bonuses for control level. If the mentalist makes the roll by more than what's needed, then for every 1 over, the target suffers a penalty to their breakout roll. Targets can push their EGO and apply overall levels to the breakout roll attempts, and if they have HAPs or the equivalent, they can add those or ask for a re-roll.

37. Diceless PRE attacks--you roll your PRE roll, adjusted for modifiers. Targets roll their EGO or PRE rolls, adjusted. However much they blow it by indicates the level of effect.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Unofficial Advanced Player's Guide 3 Survey.

 

38. Alternate stats, primary and secondary. Essentially a list of possible alternate stats, and what one could do with them--e.g., Sanity, Mana, Sex Appeal, Initiative and Agility(to replace DEX), Perception, Social Combat Value(s), Spirit, Manipulation, the social stats suggested in Social Combat rules, Magic Defense, etc.

39. Expanded Kingdom rules--new maneuvers, notes and suggestions for how to calculate STR of military units and how to integrate with mass combat rules

40. The full list of "Universal" Talents--covering every possible skill aggregation, including TF, WF, AK, KS, Contacts, etc.

41. Extending the Growth table up to 8km height(the beginning level of Enter the Macroverse according to The Ultimate Metamorph)

42. Expanding the Heroic Action Points rules to allow more options than just influencing dice rolls.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Unofficial Advanced Player's Guide 3 Survey.

 

43. "Realistic" Knockback rules--to complement the realistic throwing distance rules. If a 100kg person is punched by a STR 60 opponent(64kj) and 1/4 of that energy(minimum)(16kj) is converted into momentum pushing the target back, that's going to impart a velocity of about 18m/second to the targeted person. That's roughly 40mph. If the 60 STR opponent pushes and haymakers, that's x64 the kinetic energy, which should "realistically" translate into x8 the velocity, meaning the target is thrown backwards with an initial velocity of over 300mph! At sufficiently high damage levels, realistic knockback would result in the sound barrier being broken(about 21 DC), orbital velocity being achieved(30+ DC), or even low level relativistic speeds being attained(50+ DC, equivalent to being punched full force by Pre-Crisis Superman).

44. "Realistic" damage effects of high-level attacks on humans, vehicles and other objects. Basically, if you want to Iron/Rust Age up your campaign, options to make superhuman damage levels more lethal.

[steriaca]

Re: Unofficial Advanced Player's Guide 3 Survey.

 

What I can say is...wow...what a list MegaPlayboy. Humm...seeing that "Awsome Power" is not that good as an advantage, what do people think as a 5 point adder to attacks for +1d6 PRE Attack after you use the power?

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Unofficial Advanced Player's Guide 3 Survey.

 

What I can say is...wow...what a list MegaPlayboy. Humm...seeing that "Awsome Power" is not that good as an advantage' date=' what do people think as a 5 point adder to attacks for +1d6 PRE Attack after you use the power?[/quote']

 

I think it would be easier to just buy +5 PRE. For the same cost, you'd get that +1d6 PRE Attack all the time.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Unofficial Advanced Player's Guide 3 Survey.

 

I think it would be easier to just buy +5 PRE. For the same cost' date=' you'd get that +1d6 PRE Attack all the time. [/quote']

 

And +1 with PRE rolls, plus 5 presence defense.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Unofficial Advanced Player's Guide 3 Survey.

 

45. Open-ended dice rolling. E.G., roll 3d6 reversed(i.e., higher is better), if you roll a 16, 17 or 18, roll and add the results of 2d6. If you roll an 11 or 12, roll and add another d6. This would replace the "always hits on X/always misses on Y" rule.

46. Magical combat--a set of maneuvers/techniques to represent magical dueling. Attack spells, counterspells, etc.

47. Rules for "casual" use of other stats besides STR.

48. Attack Versus Rare Defense(AVRD)--+2 for Rare(1 in every 6-12 opponents has it), +3 for Very Rare(1 in 20-30), +4 for Extremely Rare or Unique Defense(1, period).

49. Expanded Life Support immunity list(e.g., alien diseases and poisons, temporal shifts, reality shifts, etc.)

50. Extended Longevity options--(maybe a range from 1 to 7 points instead?--1 pt = 2x, 2= 4x, 3=8x, 4= 16x, 5= 32x, 6=64+x, 7 = immortal/unaging)

[megaplayboy]

Re: Unofficial Advanced Player's Guide 3 Survey.

 

51. More on simulating Absolute Effects, with different approaches(explicit Advantages and power levels, vs. relative absoluteness)

52. Haymakering martial arts maneuvers, and generally combining maneuvers.

53. Possession variant: body swap(not sure if this is already listed in APG 1).

54. Using transformation attacks on inanimate objects(like vehicles and bases).

55. "Absolute" Skills--i.e., an Amber-esque approach to skill mastery.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Unofficial Advanced Player's Guide 3 Survey.

 

New one, inspired by a discussion on the Cool Guns for Your Games thread:

56. New advantages for blasts and killing attacks, that would increase the chances of causing bleeding, disabling and/or impairing wounds(without necessarily increasing overall body damage)

57. More combat effects for Change Environment, in line with the above--bleeding, disabling, impairing, causing knockback, other power effect levels, etc.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Unofficial Advanced Player's Guide 3 Survey.

 

New one, inspired by a discussion on the Cool Guns for Your Games thread:

56. New advantages for blasts and killing attacks, that would increase the chances of causing bleeding, disabling and/or impairing wounds(without necessarily increasing overall body damage)

57. More combat effects for Change Environment, in line with the above--bleeding, disabling, impairing, causing knockback, other power effect levels, etc.

 

I like these. In general, I'd like a bit more systemic support for optional rules and more ability to manipulate said optional rules.

You indirectly raised a good idea... "Does Knockback" could be easily tweaked to act as a broader advantage: Uses Optional Rule X, where X isn't normally active in a given campaign.

[steriaca]

Re: Unofficial Advanced Player's Guide 3 Survey.

 

Humm...how much of a limitation is "Does Knockdown" in a game which uses Knockback?

[megaplayboy]

Re: Unofficial Advanced Player's Guide 3 Survey.

 

Humm...how much of a limitation is "Does Knockdown" in a game which uses Knockback?

 

Probably a quarter lim, though I think "does no KB" is also a quarter.

[gojira]

Re: Unofficial Advanced Player's Guide 3 Survey.

 

Yes. Like "Stun Only," Knockdown might be useful as often as it is a hindrance. -0 overall.

[steriaca]

Re: Unofficial Advanced Player's Guide 3 Survey.

 

Yes. Like "Stun Only' date='" Knockdown might be useful as often as it is a hindrance. -0 overall.[/quote']

 

Yes...that is proably how it should be officialy done.

[JmOz]

Re: Unofficial Advanced Player's Guide 3 Survey.

 

changing lims and advantages to a +/-x.x to create more variety in limitations (Costs END to activate .3, Non persistant .2)

[dmjalund]

Re: Unofficial Advanced Player's Guide 3 Survey.

 

changing lims and advantages to a +/-x.x to create more variety in limitations (Costs END to activate .3' date=' Non persistant .2)[/quote']makes the chart a lot bigger tho