New Hero System Players And Game Masters

[steriaca]

Basicly, the question is this: In the digital age where paper is getting extremly expensive, and would-be role players would rather have a joystick in the hand than a pencel and a fist full of D6es, how can any of us old-timers atractnew gamers? How can Hero Games make such things easyer for us to do so?

 

I realy do not think Champions Online is working as a 'you played the video game, now play the real thing' way. To joystick jockies, it is the real thing and 'Champions Offline' is fake.

[RexMundi]

Re: New Hero System Players And Game Masters

 

You can have my books and dice when you pry them from my cold dead hands......

 

~Rex.....denies the digital age another inch of ground....

[steriaca]

Re: New Hero System Players And Game Masters

 

You can have my books and dice when you pry them from my cold dead hands......

 

~Rex.....denies the digital age another inch of ground....

 

Dateline Kenosha, year 2063.

 

The worlds last roleplayer died today. The athorities are still haveing a hard time removeing the archaic random number generators and dead plant parts from his manipulation digits. Film at 11.

[Escafarc]

Re: New Hero System Players And Game Masters

 

Dateline Kenosha, year 2063.

 

The worlds last roleplayer died today. The athorities are still haveing a hard time removeing the archaic random number generators and dead plant parts from his manipulation digits. Film at 11.

 

That will lead to the creation of the PnP RPG reenactors. They dress in dirty comic inspired t-shirts and hangout in someones basement/garage eat authentic junk food playing a game made up of a mish-mash of rules from a dozen different systems.

[steriaca]

Re: New Hero System Players And Game Masters

 

Now that most of the jokes out of the way, the real question...how to help our hoby out so the above does not happen?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: New Hero System Players And Game Masters

 

If we could figure out how to make the game appealing to young Japanese girls* we could start a new golden age of role playing.

 

*one of the most influential trendsetting groups in the world.

[RexMundi]

Re: New Hero System Players And Game Masters

 

Smash the computers and tablets? Dunno what can be done really. I've Zero Interest Forever in a PDF product. It could be the best game product ever produced, and I would most likely never bother with it because it's not a book.

The Only time I've purchased a PDF is to give it away as a gift either to Soldiers on my care package list, or other folks I know (again, splinter of a niche market) that desire the entire world to be assimilated by the digital age. Of course these people also demand the PDF cost like 5 bucks tops, so they have plenty of them to fill up their up to a thousand dollar or more PDF reading electricity sponge....

 

Gotta get the players young. Used to be back in the day with the Demo Teams we'd hit up schools, scouts, youth centers and other like functions, run games and demonstrate the other positive aspects of the hobby as well. Such a pain to do nowadays though. I've gotten so tired of tripping over technology that I haven't bothered to push a demo for anything even at a major convention in about 3 years now. Some Hobby Stores still have some gaming areas and that's not a bad hook to get a few people going then some word of mouth as well, but around here the Card Players and the Card Funk have driven off all the board gamers and RPGers. Guess it was just easier back in the days before everything became instant gratification and facebook style socialization ....

 

~Rex

[thewomble]

Re: New Hero System Players And Game Masters

 

If we could figure out how to make the game appealing to young Japanese girls* we could start a new golden age of role playing.

 

*one of the most influential trendsetting groups in the world.

 

They are??? Too bad RPGs definitely fall into the "ick, otaku" category for the more fashionable young women...

[steriaca]

Re: New Hero System Players And Game Masters

 

If we could figure out how to make the game appealing to young Japanese girls* we could start a new golden age of role playing.

 

*one of the most influential trendsetting groups in the world.

 

It could help if the rules were translated to japanies. Then replace all the artwork with bishojen(sp?) artwork and sell them in butler cafes.

[Martin2]

Re: New Hero System Players And Game Masters

 

There is probably no way back to the "good old days of roleplaying".

 

Even when I started 26+ years ago it was a minority hobby.

 

Is sort of started in school and Uni and just som eof us did not give it up after school and Uni .

 

There are more interesting hobbies to have then these things connected to books and rules and throwing dice to come up with these answers to what you do. Its all about getting the computer to do things for you (and your friends are Avatars and they all look a lot better than your real friends ).

 

In my case if you need players they travel. One of mine travels about 60 miles round trip to play a game, one makes a special trip and it must be 160+ miles from Wales to Oxford so one player literally moves countries to play and other make 40 miles and 10 miles round trips. We have two wives that now turn up to play the game. My two kids are 3 and 5 so a bit young to play yet and I have not started brain washing them yet .

 

We have to supply to the old players who are still playing and probably the new players who were dragged into it by being friends of the older players.

 

Who knows how to revitalise the roleplaying gaming industry?

 

Air burst nuke to fry all the computers?? But then that would wipe out the internet ordering so you would have to make sure you have gaming stores full stocked so when the hordes of computer players want something to do you can supply them with the game that started their computer games.

[thewomble]

Re: New Hero System Players And Game Masters

 

Firstly, invite your non-gaming friends to take part in a game. Every year you can introduce several people to the hobby and to our favourite game. If we all did this, Hero would be in great shape.

 

Secondly, run an event at a con.

 

Thirdly, keep buying Hero products, support Kickstarters etc so that the game is still in print and getting support for decades to come.

 

Fourthly, spread the word online by participating in forums, blogging, mentioning Hero on Facebook or whatever. But don't kid yourself, doing the first one I mentioned will be way more effective at helping the game.

[djkester]

Re: New Hero System Players And Game Masters

 

Spend time with younger generations of your family and friends. Go out and do stuff with younger people. Of my current gaming group 2 are in their 20s, 1 30s and 3 40s. Being older than 40 means you remember what it was like to play these games and can show others how much fun they are. I suggest hosting a game. Also, go to conventions and run games.

[bluesguy]

Re: New Hero System Players And Game Masters

 

My gaming group is myself (GM), my wife (we played a long time ago and then stopped), our two teenagers (17 & 14), a woman and her son (14) from church and a new member who is a friend of my son's (also 17). The teenagers are hooked.

[Susano]

Re: New Hero System Players And Game Masters

 

Smash the computers and tablets? Dunno what can be done really. I've Zero Interest Forever in a PDF product. It could be the best game product ever produced' date=' and I would most likely never bother with it because it's not a book. [/quote']

 

I think this is a bad attitude to have. There's going to be more and more PDF-only material coming out as paper gets more expensive, along with printing and shipping costs. Also, I can have PDFs of all my rulebooks on a tablet device, have them handy at the gaming table, and look up a rule, modifier, or question quickly (usually via a search function.) And if the question is carry 6-8 rulebook or one tablet, well, the tablet is going to win out. Not to mention, as is the case with Kazei 5, the paper book is B&W, while the PDF is full color.

 

And cost is a factor. Core rule books are often $40-$60.00. Heck, supplements for Dark Heresy, Shadowrun, and others are $44.95 each! If the PDF is $19.95, then I'll buy that, unless the book is so critical, I'll want the paper version.

 

That said, I like books and like to have a physical book in my hands. But as a GM? PDFs and tablets are powerful tools to have on hand. Not to mention a tablet becomes a great experience enhancer. Load it with images, sounds, and other things and you can make your adventure even more immersive. Not to mention pulling off such tricks (if you're running the right setting) of emailing players files as they find them (or having someone email the PC a file and send it to the player!) And considering the tablet I want to get starts at around $400 or so, and with the added keyboard is only around $550, it's a steal (esp. when compared to Apple's $600+ iPad [and I'm an Apple fan].)

 

I also think the appeal of tabletop gaming is the idea that you're able to experience a world geared towards you. When play Skyrim, for example, you're playing in a pretty nice, well-detailed world, but it's still a specific game world If you don't like fantasy, then you're stuck. You could play Fallout 3, but that's post apoc. So... what next? In addition, tabletop games are cooperative, and not in the same fashion as, say Team Fortress 2, Call of Duty, or any other FPS or RTS games. The best analogy would be things like World of Warcraft or Champions Online, except your tabletop FTF game is going to be even more interactive, and cooperative, then the computer version. You don't need to worry about leveling up, or PVP team killers, or cheat codes, or servers being down, or... Well, you get the idea.

 

Curiously, video games can be a great gateway to tabletop. My Left 4 Dead Hero games have worked both ways—people interested in Hero after playing, or people who want to try L4D. Early reports of the Half Life Hero game I've been helping develop have done much the same. I don't think computer and console games are going to automatically turn their nose up at table top RPGS, but I do think they need to be show how it can be a different (not better, just different) experience for them.

[RexMundi]

Re: New Hero System Players And Game Masters

 

I think this is a bad attitude to have. There's going to be more and more PDF-only material coming out as paper gets more expensive' date=' along with printing and shipping costs. Also, I can have PDFs of all my rulebooks on a tablet device, have them handy at the gaming table, and look up a rule, modifier, or question quickly (usually via a search function.) And if the question is carry 6-8 rulebook or one tablet, well, the tablet is going to win out. Not to mention, as is the case with [i']Kazei 5[/i], the paper book is B&W, while the PDF is full color.

 

And cost is a factor. Core rule books are often $40-$60.00. Heck, supplements for Dark Heresy, Shadowrun, and others are $44.95 each! If the PDF is $19.95, then I'll buy that, unless the book is so critical, I'll want the paper version.

 

That said, I like books and like to have a physical book in my hands. But as a GM? PDFs and tablets are powerful tools to have on hand. Not to mention a tablet becomes a great experience enhancer. Load it with images, sounds, and other things and you can make your adventure even more immersive. Not to mention pulling off such tricks (if you're running the right setting) of emailing players files as they find them (or having someone email the PC a file and send it to the player!) And considering the tablet I want to get starts at around $400 or so, and with the added keyboard is only around $550, it's a steal (esp. when compared to Apple's $600+ iPad [and I'm an Apple fan].)

 

I also think the appeal of tabletop gaming is the idea that you're able to experience a world geared towards you. When play Skyrim, for example, you're playing in a pretty nice, well-detailed world, but it's still a specific game world If you don't like fantasy, then you're stuck. You could play Fallout 3, but that's post apoc. So... what next? In addition, tabletop games are cooperative, and not in the same fashion as, say Team Fortress 2, Call of Duty, or any other FPS or RTS games. The best analogy would be things like World of Warcraft or Champions Online, except your tabletop FTF game is going to be even more interactive, and cooperative, then the computer version. You don't need to worry about leveling up, or PVP team killers, or cheat codes, or servers being down, or... Well, you get the idea.

 

Curiously, video games can be a great gateway to tabletop. My Left 4 Dead Hero games have worked both ways—people interested in Hero after playing, or people who want to try L4D. Early reports of the Half Life Hero game I've been helping develop have done much the same. I don't think computer and console games are going to automatically turn their nose up at table top RPGS, but I do think they need to be show how it can be a different (not better, just different) experience for them.

 

I see your point. Bottom end set up to read all those PDF's some people seem to like is around 500 to 600 bucks for functionality during play (We tried the all Tablet Idea on the Demo Teams, rolled with iPad's so a bit more cash there. 6 Team GM's during that so, Right there, is around $3900 bucks), PLUS the PDF's.

 

Now, aside from the fact I despise reading Lots of Material on a computer screen of any type, and most of them simply slow me down to much in terms of being able to flip right to I want (Unless I book mark this and that then adjust view then shift to these formats etc etc etc as opposed to, Open Book to Presence Attack.) I can buy, enough copies of the book to GIVE each of my players a book or books, for the cost of the silly thing I need to read the PDF (Figure what, 6 copies of Vol1+vol2 equals the cost of 1 Low End iPad).

 

My Book doesn't need to be plugged into a wall or have the need to have extra batteries laying around and or cords everywhere that get tripped over when folks gotta go to the can. I need minimal light to read it. It doesn't kill my eyes to do so (provided it's not piles of glossy pages that I have to read under CSL light...). Someone steals my book I'm out 40 bucks give or take, I spill a beer on it I need a paper towel to fix it. I drop my book I pick it up. I drop my book off the top of the Hyatt in Indianapolis, I go down into the Alley and pick it up...

 

I get that people that are into the tablet/puter thing and the PDF's like stuff like that. I like Aspects of it. I like digging through sites that host things like character sheets and stuff, I keep a couple of the PDF's on the computer if I need to print A Page of something. But heck only like 3 in 10 games bother with online forums like this, and of that batch, only a few folks are toting around 600 plus in machinery to read their 200 plus worth of PDF's. I'll keep on keeping on with my 100 bucks worth of books.....

 

~Rex....says his demand is for a book. If the suppliers don't want to make a book, that's their loss. Nature abhors a vacuum, and while the cost may go up, books are not going away anytime soon. Double the price of the books as they stand now and they are STILL cheaper by far then the lowest end comfortable tablet loaded with the same number of PDF's and even with the crappiest of book quality will outlast the digital witchery as well.

[Manic Typist]

Re: New Hero System Players And Game Masters

 

If you drop it off that building, you'll probably pick up a very damaged book. Whereas with a PDF, you have that forever. You can download it anytime, anywhere, and reproduce it as much as you want.

 

So, you can print off copies to keep for referral during games, for example.

[RexMundi]

Re: New Hero System Players And Game Masters

 

If you drop it off that building, you'll probably pick up a very damaged book. Whereas with a PDF, you have that forever. You can download it anytime, anywhere, and reproduce it as much as you want.

 

So, you can print off copies to keep for referral during games, for example.

 

If you say so. I've only got One Computer so if I toss that off a Roof, I don't have a PDF anymore. My 5th Ed that went off the top of the Hyatt as a "Look how tough this book is PDF guy!" ended up with a dinged Corner. No ones gonna risk a 600 buck at the low end machine that way so it was an easy bet to win.

 

Printing a PDF, costs me the same as buying the book. Though about reprinting Vol.1 + 2 but per page even in Black and White it's not worth it, since now I have the COST of the PDF on top of the Cost of the Machine to Read it On Top of the Cost to Print it then the Cost to Bind it.... Just rather buy a new Vol 1+2 and take the rest of the cash to Vegas for a weekend of Fun.....

 

Making a zillion copies to hand out for free doesn't exactly help repeat business either. Granted, I've passed out more then a few PDF's here and there. Especially for my care package list overseas in Afghanistan right now. Their Request though was for more BOOKS, so Instead of picking up the Kindle Fire I was looking at the other day, I grabbed the last two sets of Vol 1 + 2 over here and another basic book and an APG with a touch of store Credit to round it out and a Trade in of an old Game Book (ever try trading in an old PDF? No Market for it) I still had gas money in my pocket and a nice gift for friends of mine playing HERO in Foxholes.

 

Sticking with Books. You guys like the PDF's, I'm fine with that feel free to pick them up and use them, but my money is for Books, it goes further that way.

 

~Rex

[mallet]

Re: New Hero System Players And Game Masters

 

I'm a book guy, but I have an Ipad and a couple of the other players in my group do as well. As they become more common, and the prices drop, eventually almost everyone will have one, just like most people now have smart phones.

 

So, if you want to know what will help bring people into table top gaming? APPs and Programs! This may sound cheesy, but they are the way of the future.

 

What someone needs to do is make an app/program that combines Hero Designer, plus Hero Roller, combined with a combat program that tracks BODY, STUN, END. That is wi-fi linked among the players and GM.

 

That would be the ultimate RPG tool.

 

Imagine everyone playing the game buys the app/program for, say, $30. A moderate initial investment, but then everyone has their character right in front of them when they play.

 

The Gm start the combat, adds in the players info straight from thier PAD's wirelessly, brings up the pre-made NPCs and boomb. Your are ready to go. The players screen flashes when it is your turn to act, you pick you actions and attack, hit roll, and it tracks damage, END, etc... for you and the NPC's.

 

Between combat, the GM can send images, maps, etc... to the players so everyone is all on the same page, etc...

 

It is already possible to play fast, action, video games by wi-fi with people near you, and if it can be real time interactive like that with all the graphics and actions then it should be easily (ie, cheaper) to do the same thing with mainly static sheets and images for a RPG.

 

 

Basically it automates all the book keeping, which turns so many people off table top RPGs, making it nice and simple, while still having everyone in a room, playing and interacting to the GM's adventure.

 

That type of system would/will win over at least some computer rpg gamers, who normally would want to deal with "learning" the rules, and tracking data on a sheet of paper.

[Alleyne]

Re: New Hero System Players And Game Masters

 

Hi, hi. Younger than 25 y/o player here and just thought I'd give my input.

 

PDFs are the future. I'm saying it blatantly because, well, that is the truth :/

 

Being able to Ctrl+F and then type it what you're looking for is a huge boon, and allow for more flow in a game. You have to introduce new people to the game if you want to hobby to survive. Thats that. Period. Hook line and sinker people at conventions, go to a game shop that normally doesn't do that type of game, but come in with your lappy/tablet/books and offer to GM and see if they have a blast or not.

 

The nice thing about RPG players, as opposed to other species of nerd, is that 'our' endeavors require us to be social and to expand it and keep that endeavor alive we should strive to be even more sharing!

[MisterVimes]

Re: New Hero System Players And Game Masters

 

There is really no reason you can't have it both ways. Around our gaming table we have people with books and kindles and iPads and laptops and we all use our resources the way we like. As far as how to deal with the dwindling number of player, everything goes in cycles, RPGs are not dead and not dying, you just need to cast farther afield. There is as much "I need to get off the computer" sentiment as there is "yay computers" attitude. At the end of the day we game at a table because of the social interaction. Much like any social behavior, if you can't find people, create them. Recruit them from your other social activities just like you recruit people from gaming to your other hobbies.

[Manic Typist]

Re: New Hero System Players And Game Masters

 

[quote=RexMundi;2292120

 

Sticking with Books. You guys like the PDF's, I'm fine with that feel free to pick them up and use them, but my money is for Books, it goes further that way.

 

~Rex

 

It's fine that you stick with books. I like them too. However, to be blunt, you are mistaken and you are being disingenuous. The money literally does not go further that way. It's the reverse, and it all has to do with the fact that you have access to the book for forever (essentially) and can reproduce it (infinitely).

 

Here's the thing. You already have a computer. That's a default. You're using one right now. So, that means that the cost of the machine is irrelevant. Even if you throw it off a building, you can go print your books (for LESS than the cost of the book unless you're allowing yourself to get ripped off, I managed to print two copies of each volume for free at my school library), and on top you don't have to pay shipping, which DEFINITELY ensures that printing it (and putting it in a binder yourself) is cheaper.

 

The PDF is tougher. Why? Because it's invulnerable. If you accidentally delete it, well, you can download it again from the HERO site or go download it from your email or wherever else you were smart enough to back it up.

 

Trade-ins? Bad business, that. Usually it means you're already losing, unless the item is truly worthless to you. So I'll see your extremely reduced trade-in value and raise you the savings of the PDF initial price and the need to never buy the book again.

 

As an aside, please don't misrepresent me as suggesting that you give away copies. I said table copies. That way not everyone has to crowd over the same book, but you can have them placed evenly throughout the room for easy access of all. You could LEND one for a couple of days to let someone decide if they want to buy a copy from HERO Games.

 

PDFs just literally are economically superior (for the customer) in essentially every way. This isn't a criticism of the books, it just is. The appeal of books? The smell, the heft, the color. That, however, is a personal preference thing, not a quantifiable feature that can be measured. That's why I buy the bundle, so that I can have my nice GM copy and then refer to the PDF when I need to find something fast, or when I'm traveling (they are weightless, after all), etc.

[thewomble]

Re: New Hero System Players And Game Masters

 

Hi, hi. Younger than 25 y/o player here and just thought I'd give my input.

 

PDFs are the future. I'm saying it blatantly because, well, that is the truth :/

 

Good to see a younger player around here. Heck, I'm not ancient in my 30s, but I've been playing Hero since the 1980s so that puts me in the older majority.

 

Just wondering, how did you get into Hero system?

[maxinstuff]

Re: New Hero System Players And Game Masters

 

I have to agree with RexMundi on this - PDF's as a medium has some serious flaws.

 

I am a young guy (generation y) and I HATE reading PDF's - especially ones that are more than a few pages long. The technology has a long way to go before it's feasable to read PDF's without further damaging my already suffering eyesight (incidentally - damaged from looking at screens all day long).

 

When there is an easily flipped through, searchable, non-eysight damaging device for reading PDF's I will be straight onto it. The Kindle is on the right track - but it still really struggles with the sidebars and artwork etc.

 

Besides, for me one of the biggest appeals of this hobby is that you can sit down with some friends, with pen and paper and dice, and not an electronic device in sight - and get your game on.

 

I feel something is really lost from the game when all the electronics start coming into it - and what if your reader of choice runs out of batteries, or your internet is down, or it's a power blackout? I suppose you just bust out monopoly

 

With all that said - PDF's are absolutely indispensable as a back-up medium. If my book is lost in a fire or gets drowned somehow - I can have another printed. PDF/hard copy combo FTW.

[The Engineer]

Re: New Hero System Players And Game Masters

 

PDF vs Book: I prefer books, but if space/carrying capacity is an issue PDFs work just as well. I don't see the problem here, guys.

 

Getting people into the hobby: Same way you got into the hobby, most likely. Someone sat down and said "here, let me show you this wondrous hobby of mine. I think you'll enjoy it." then provided a good experience. That last part is the important one, as that's gonna shape the impression.

[Susano]

Re: New Hero System Players And Game Masters

 

PDF vs Book: I prefer books' date=' but if space/carrying capacity is an issue PDFs work just as well. I don't see the problem here, guys.[/quote']

 

Same here. I never said I was anti-book. If I go to GenCon, I'm buying books, not PDFs. But I was also arguing that PDFs can (and are) invaluable as a GM's tool and make the task of GMing (esp. at something like GenCon) much easier. I also think to dismiss PDFs out of hand is a huge mistake, as there is a lot of PDF-only material out there, and some if it is down0right dirt cheap, if not free.