Christopher Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Re: Cassandra's Corner Except that Hunteds that aren't worth any points are generated within the game itself through play. Then it is closer to giving a physical fit guy and master athlete a Complcaition "Paraphlegic" or jsut adding a Vulnerabiltiy. Complications are a request to the GM to make it part of the story. Not having a complcaitions means there is no request. It might still be a thematic in one or two adventures (just like the bad guys trying to steal the heroes powers/body). But it's decidedly not fair game by any defintion I know of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Re: Cassandra's Corner Yeah, and by that logic it is totally unfair for the GM to create a detective character that specializes in cracking SIDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Re: Cassandra's Corner Yeah' date=' and by that logic it is totally unfair for the GM to create a detective character that specializes in cracking SIDs.[/quote'] As I understad it you say: "Characters have either Secret ID or Public ID. If not I shove one down the players throat for no points." Is that what you wanted to say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice9 Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Re: Cassandra's Corner While it's possible to have a Secret ID tracked down in the course of play, similar to gaining a Hunted, I dispute that not having the Secret ID complication would make it easier. If anything, somebody without the complication might have a better Secret ID, which never causes problems for them. In terms of "difficulty to discover", I would rate it like this: 1) Public ID (with or without the Complication) 2) Secret ID Complication 3) Secret ID, no complication Also note that discovering an ID is not the same as being able to capitalize on it. For instance, an example character with a public ID and no Complication would be a recently arrived alien. He lives at a PRIMUS base, and doesn't have a "normal" job or family. So it's easy to find out who he is, but that doesn't really help his foes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Re: Cassandra's Corner No. Secret ID: Players have to work to maintain it. Gotta find an excuse to get away to change into your jammies. Public ID: Reasonably everyone knows who the character is. You can go into action without having to change into your jammies first, unless your jammies are an aspect of your powers and their SFX. Having neither means you don't have the benefit of either extreme. You are, because of rule mechanics, somewhere in the middle. You aren't getting points for it, so the extent is not and should not be as extreme, but if your archenemy wants to know who you are, it isn't going to be really that difficult to find out. It isn't as cut and dried as "if you want them to know, they do, if you don't, they don't." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice9 Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Re: Cassandra's Corner It's a Complication. Complications don't give benefits. If you have a Secret ID, but not the complication, then your identity is at least as difficult to find as somebody who did take the limitation. Which does not necessarily mean impossible, but it doesn't mean easy either. Just like "Marathon Man", who gets 20m of Running with no limitations can move just as fast as "Super Sprinter" who gets 20m of Running with x3 END. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Re: Cassandra's Corner And I did say that it would require some effort to find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice9 Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Re: Cassandra's Corner Well, if it's as much effort as would be required for someone with the Secret ID Complication, that's fine. If it's easier, then that goes against what Complications mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Re: Cassandra's Corner Having neither means you don't have the benefit of either extreme. You are' date=' because of rule mechanics, somewhere in the middle. You aren't getting points for it, so the extent is not and should not be as extreme, but if your archenemy wants to know who you are, it isn't going to be really that difficult to find out. It isn't as cut and dried as "if you want them to know, they do, if you don't, they don't."[/quote'] You seem to mix up "constant hassle"/"fair game" with "in one adventure". Nobody needs a Hunted Ogre to fight Ogre in an adventure and he won't aquire one jsut because he fought him once. The same applies to the no-ID-Complication-guy: A enemy trying to figure out his true Identity might be a center of one adventure. But that's it. There will be no more repercussions. If the enemy succed he propably looses the vital link and get's some Instant Amnesia once the adventure is over. Or he just stops caring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Re: Cassandra's Corner You seem to be implying a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Re: Cassandra's Corner If the player doesn't want to roleplay the negative side of having a secret ID than he doesn't take the Complication and it really shouldn't be a common issue in the game. Saying it would be easier to discover his SID than someone who does have the Complication makes no sense what so ever. Does that mean it should never come up? No. But you might want to run it by the player first, since they specifically avoided taking an ID Complication and don't seem interested in that aspect of the character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Re: Cassandra's Corner You seem to be implying a lot. Two characters, both have a Secret ID. 1. Has the Secrect ID Complication for 15 Points. 2 Has no Secret or Public ID Complication. Logic implies that: 1. will have frequent problems with with keeping his ID secret, because that is what the player wanted. 2. Will have such problems exaclty in one or two adventures, decidedly not on a regular basis. It's the sam logic that applies to not taking Hunted: US Army, Paraplegic, Distinctive Feature (Big green Rage Monster) or Subject to Orders from Odin. Why is it unfathomable for you that some players don't want to deal with Public or Secret ID's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahuna's bro Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Re: Cassandra's Corner whatof the publi ID hero who nobody beliives to be the hero they consider him a poser pretending to be the hero's everyday persona Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Re: Cassandra's Corner whatof the publi ID her who nobody belies to be the her they consider him a poser pretending to be the heo;s everyday personaI would say the character has a public ID but no Complication for it. They won't get attacked while at home or "off duty" and their family and friends won't be targeted unless they were DNPCs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Holck Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Re: Cassandra's Corner I've got six players so complications are their responsibility to bring to the table not much time is devoted to individual secrete identities I had a player with a public id High Tower FBI who took issue with travailing out of the United States on assignment. Plantmatter ultimately made a bureaucrat roll as the trip was to escort Orca (a super hero friend of Plantmatter and High Tower) while he meet with Smither (wanted for murder geneticist) in Brazil. The complication was presented by the player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Re: Cassandra's Corner I am new to the game so I may not fully understand. I would tend to think that if the player did not take either complication then it should not come up very often. If the gm wants to make it into a recurring plot point he should give the character the complication and the points to use for something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Re: Cassandra's Corner I am new to the game so I may not fully understand. I would tend to think that if the player did not take either complication then it should not come up very often. If the gm wants to make it into a recurring plot point he should give the character the complication and the points to use for something else. That seem to be what everyone thinks - except for Grewind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Re: Cassandra's Corner "Not come up very often" is not the same thing as "never". Disads by their nature, come up regularly. That doesn't mean that other issues related won't come up. You seem to mix up "constant hassle"/"fair game" with "in one adventure". Nobody needs a Hunted Ogre to fight Ogre in an adventure and he won't aquire one jsut because he fought him once. The same applies to the no-ID-Complication-guy: A enemy trying to figure out his true Identity might be a center of one adventure. But that's it. There will be no more repercussions. If the enemy succed he propably looses the vital link and get's some Instant Amnesia once the adventure is over. Or he just stops caring Hunteds generated through game play are part of continuity. Should the game be tossed out totally because "hey, we pissed off a street gang/drug lord/kingpin" and, while none of the characters has it as a Hunted means that it won't come up again? Sounds like you'd prefer a Golden Age campaign where the only thing that matters is "this game" and not "this ongoing campaign." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Re: Cassandra's Corner Hunteds generated through game play are part of continuity. Should the game be tossed out totally because "hey' date=' we pissed off a street gang/drug lord/kingpin" and, while none of the characters has it as a Hunted means that it won't come up again?[/quote'] That is what trading complications is there for. Or making that the center of one additional adventure. Sounds like you'd prefer a Golden Age campaign where the only thing that matters is "this game" and not "this ongoing campaign." None of these requires to force a Secret ID complication on players who doesn't want one (and clearly stated this by not taking one). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 Re: Cassandra's Corner Using it from time to time, isn't forcing it on someone. Continuity in an ongoing campaign is fairly important. I also feel this has taken up more space that it should have in Cassandra's thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 Re: Cassandra's Corner I also feel this has taken up more space that it should have in Cassandra's thread. On that I agree with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 Re: Cassandra's Corner Which brings me to my point. Do you really have to have a secret identity? Not taking a SocL: Secret Identity doesn't mean that your dual identity isn't known to the public, you'd have to take Public Identity for that. It just means that your friends and family know about you being a superhero. You can even take a Rep: Superhero to enjoy the positive aspects of being a crime fighter while avoiding the pitfalls. Cassandra, this point is something I've been thinking about lately. On how we buy things out of habbit more than special effects. For example, if you describe a sword, how often do we leap to OAF automatically? I kinda realized this when I built a belt gadget for Orb. My gut instinct is that it should be OIF, but (as in some old cartoons) I wanted it to be grabbed so it could be taken away by the hero, so i built it as OAF so it would be easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 Re: Cassandra's Corner Let's take a look at wath both complcaitions mean: Secret ID: "The character maintains a secret identity of some sort (for example, a superhero with a costumed crimefighter persona and a normal, everyday, identity)". Danger: "there is a risk that the identity will be exposed, which in turn exposes the character and his loved ones to attack or other problems" Public ID: "The character is well-known to the public for some reason, and information about him can easily be located. His enemies can attack him whenever they want, fans and admirers may mob him at awkward times, and so forth" Now the question is: Where does the average citizen or Police Officer falls? I would say they have a public ID, but without the complication. Very few people ever make it into a TV-Report or Newspaper. Even fewer stay there for enough time. It's easy to find "Office Huxleys" adress, but very few people are interested in finding him. The media isn't intersted in him or his daily routine. There are no fanboys going through his garbage. In short: Officer Huxley does not have a Complication. When you start looking for him, you have to start from scratch. "KS: Famous Police Officers" won't cover him. There is no specialist for "everyday cops with no media coverage" to ask about inforamtion (to start from). You won't find articles with his name on old newspapers microfilms. At worst you might have to hack the Police Computer just to figure out how many "officer Huxley"'s are out there and have to check each of them to find the one you are searchign for. And if you have really bad luck (going in part with the the one you are seachign for does not needs to eat or sleep, has no bank records, no place of living and the like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 Re: Cassandra's Corner I like to keep things simple, which brings me to another point. There are so many options in Champions that one is tempted to use everything. But is that necessary or even desirable. As many of you know I like creating low level characters built on 250 points. 350 Points in theory allows you to build well rounded characters but there is a temptation of create the superhero equivalent of a M-1 Abrams tank. Good to fight with, but lacking personality. Thinking of this too, you it doesn't have to be this way. One suggestion would be that all vehicles and such take a limitation vulnerable to super powers. (Not everyone likes this idea, but if your running the game...) That way you wouldn't have to ramp up the damage levels so high to be effective. Also for tanks and such you could just lower the body needed to break the things. Just cause its in the books doesn't mean you need to take it at that value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Holck Posted April 14, 2012 Report Share Posted April 14, 2012 Re: Cassandra's Corner one can always apply the no name option people that have no name take x2 body that coukd apply to tanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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