mayapuppies Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Is there any inherent advantages or weaknesses (or both) to insectile compound eyes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escafarc Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Re: Compound Eyes Increased Arc of Perception? You can catch Flies with two fingers(one on each hand) by coming at it from both sides at the same time, it can't tell which way it's coming from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mayapuppies Posted April 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Re: Compound Eyes Would that be 360 or 240? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Re: Compound Eyes Is there any inherent advantages or weaknesses (or both) to insectile compound eyes? Judging from Wikipedia (in english and german): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compound_Eye#Compound_eyes 240° Arc of Perception. Maybe even 360°. That also means easier to flash (because it hared to look away). The are good at detecting "Fast Movement". They have a much higher "Framerate" - 250 instead of 60 Hz, wich increase reaction time considerably, but if the body can get along is anotehr question. Resolution is a lot weaker than single eyes, so range modifiers are worse (propably up to doubeled). I am not certain how they sleep/how they eyes work when sleeping. They certainyl can't close thier eyes (this might be worth something as Complication) Otherwise I could not find many differences Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mayapuppies Posted April 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Re: Compound Eyes How's this? Compund Eyes: Increased Arc Of Perception (240 Degrees) with Normal Sight Vulnerability: 1 1/2 x Effect Sight Based Flashes (Uncommon) Physical Complication: Compound Eyes (Frequently; Greatly Impairing). Notes: This character cannot see objects clearly if they are more than a few feet away. When using a ranged attack, all of the character's range modifiers are doubled. Compound Eyes: Lightning Reflexes (+1 DEX to act first with All Actions) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Re: Compound Eyes Also iirc while the compound eyes are great for targeting I don't believe that they can focus too good so they see little detail. Try looking through one of those cheap clear kalidoscopes? You see abut 4 to six images of something, so maybe a penaly to perceive fine detail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Re: Compound Eyes Also iirc while the compound eyes are great for targeting I don't believe that they can focus too good so they see little detail. Try looking through one of those cheap clear kalidoscopes? You see abut 4 to six images of something' date=' so maybe a penaly to perceive fine detail?[/quote'] I don't think those caleidoscopes are a good comparsion. After all you see through them with your single eye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Re: Compound Eyes How's this? Compund Eyes: Increased Arc Of Perception (240 Degrees) with Normal Sight Vulnerability: 1 1/2 x Effect Sight Based Flashes (Uncommon) Physical Complication: Compound Eyes (Frequently; Greatly Impairing). Notes: This character cannot see objects clearly if they are more than a few feet away. When using a ranged attack, all of the character's range modifiers are doubled. Compound Eyes: Lightning Reflexes (+1 DEX to act first with All Actions) Seem legit. I'd buy that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Re: Compound Eyes I don't think those caleidoscopes are a good comparsion. After all you see through them with your single eye. True and I think that bugs really can't either. And if they can, imagine the image with with your one eye and try it with two, alittle more confusing . (You know scientist tell us how animals see, wonder if they do the same thing? ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ockham's Spoon Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Re: Compound Eyes Animals with compound eyes do detect movement very well, but they can't see fine detail well. Essentially you have a limited surface area for light reception in the eye. Humans use that area for a single image with fine detail resolution. Insects replicate the same image with each eye facet many times, but that means the resolution of each image isn't as good. When you go to swat a fly though, the movement coming toward it gets multiplied by all the facets that catch it, so the movement is easy to see. The fly might not be able to tell whether you are using your hand or a newspaper to swat it, but it hardly cares as long as it gets away. A digital analog would be that a human has a camera that takes a single picture with 10 megapixel resolution. The fly's camera takes 100 identical pictures with 0.1 megapixel resolution each. Yes I pulled those number out of thin air, but you get the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Re: Compound Eyes Animals with compound eyes do detect movement very well' date=' but they can't see fine detail well. Essentially you have a limited surface area for light reception in the eye. Humans use that area for a single image with fine detail resolution. Insects replicate the same image with each eye facet many times, but that means the resolution of each image isn't as good. When you go to swat a fly though, the movement coming toward it gets multiplied by all the facets that catch it, so the movement is easy to see. The fly might not be able to tell whether you are using your hand or a newspaper to swat it, but it hardly cares as long as it gets away.[/quote'] I've heard they can't see the movement of a fly swatter, because of the net structure. They see it, they just don't understand that it is moving towards them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Re: Compound Eyes Flies have tiny brains, and so a limit to the amount of processing poser they can devote to resolving the images. If you have a human sized creature with compound eyes and a much bigger visual processing cortex then you might get all of the advantages and none of the disadvantages. In other words, you can probably justify whatever you want, in terms of senses and complications, and call it 'compound eyes' Cool - I'm managing to fit twice as much unhelpful into half as much text! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Re: Compound Eyes ...to make up for it, and support what Christopher found on Wikipedia: http://www.d.umn.edu/~olse0176/Evolution/insects.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Re: Compound Eyes I've heard they can't see the movement of a fly swatter' date=' because of the net structure. They see it, they just don't understand that it is moving towards them.[/quote'] Then why do they fly away right before I hit them? And the question is-do they see chopsticks coming at them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 Re: Compound Eyes I just realized that they could actually have serious resistance to being flashed: When flashing a human you only have to hit two targets that a close togehter and even look in the same direction. Now, with a 240° Vision and Dozen/hundreds of eyes this might not work that well anymore. If you flash his left 120°, his right eyes are not affected at all. He just needs to turn his head. Especially useless a most bright light flashes. Each eye has only a very, very small field of Vision. So most of his eyes never have a chance to see the flash, despite looking in the general direction. Of course this does not needs to have an effect. Bright light could actually confuse his brain very strongly, so even if 95% of hsi eyes are okay his brain part for optical processing is fuzzy for a few seconds (the Flash effect), so it is still a matter of choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted April 22, 2012 Report Share Posted April 22, 2012 Re: Compound Eyes I've read that the compound eye is a great navigation device. Bees see in the ultraviolet, meaning they can see the sun even on a cloudy day. A bee takes her bearings by what facets of her eye the sun is visible in. If the sun appears in new facets, or vanishes from facets that were seeing it, she knows she is off course and can correct for it. That's also why moths move in circles around a light. They're trying to fly straight by keeping what they take to be the moon in the same set of eye-facets, which keeps one on a straight course if the light source is a celestial object but if the light is in fact a candle flame... Lucius Alexander In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ockham's Spoon Posted April 24, 2012 Report Share Posted April 24, 2012 Re: Compound Eyes I've read that the compound eye is a great navigation device. Bees see in the ultraviolet, meaning they can see the sun even on a cloudy day. A bee takes her bearings by what facets of her eye the sun is visible in. If the sun appears in new facets, or vanishes from facets that were seeing it, she knows she is off course and can correct for it. That's also why moths move in circles around a light. They're trying to fly straight by keeping what they take to be the moon in the same set of eye-facets, which keeps one on a straight course if the light source is a celestial object but if the light is in fact a candle flame... Lucius Alexander In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni I've always wondered about that. Thanks for the info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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