Tactical Analysis: Gravitar

[Dr. MID-Nite]

As Gravitar is the baddie in my next game session, I spent time going over her character sheet to see what kind of fight she was going to put up. Some of my observations are noted...

 

Strengths: 1) Gravitar has massive defenses. With just her standard gravitic shield she is sitting pretty on 54 PD/ED...enough to shrug off average rolls on 15d6 attacks. If she decides to turn on her Damage Negation field too, she's nearly invulnerable to conventional harm.

 

2) Telekinesis- She has two variations on this...one being area of effect. High strength TK poses a lot of problems for many groups.

 

3) Can fight while blind-Gravitar has Spatial awareness and a Detect Gravity power which effectively let's her fight while blind.

 

4) Exotic Attacks- NNDs...Indirect..Double KB...Flight UAA(including an AOE one), Gravitar has many ways to bring the hurt.

 

Weaknesses: 1) Average stats across the board...She's not weak in any of them, but she's not that great either. If you get past her defenses(admittedly difficult), she's not that hard to take down.

 

2) No Life Support....NONE! That means she falls ridiculously easy to certain attacks...like gas. I'm not sure if this is an oversight..or working as designed. Lots of characters have NNDs that work vs. LS....just check out the villain books.

 

3) Overconfidence-especially bad when combined with #2.

 

4) No Mental Defense-Not as much an issue as with no LS, but still a worry.

 

Other stuff:

 

1) She has a Barrier...this might protect her from all those NND attacks that drop her like a bad habit. Don't use Barrier much..will have to re-read the power entry.

 

2) Lots of levels-She'll hit all but the best DCV characters...,and she has plenty of AOE attacks to wipe them out.

 

 

Comments welcome

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Tactical Analysis: Gravitar

 

Looks pretty spot-on ... she's one of those 'Achilles Heel' type supervillains. Her weakness is that lack of defense against exotic attacks like NNDs, Ego Attack, and similar.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Tactical Analysis: Gravitar

 

She trounces most purely physical types, especially when she's played smart.

 

There are many threads about her 5E version. Some of that tactical analysis no longer holds water, but most of it should still be spot on. She's even tougher now, but her missile deflection arguably works differently and Flashes are no longer a threat.

 

She still has no knockback defense, no hardened/impenetrable defenses, no power defense, no life support and mentalists still crush her in many situations.

[Christopher]

Re: Tactical Analysis: Gravitar

 

For Weakness 2:

She could combine her Barrier with her indirect attacks. It could easily be "the way" to beat her to bring your NND behind her Barrier and she would be less dangerous if she couldn't use her full arsenal.

 

I tricky part can be how what NND is affected by that barrier. Generally barrier are not gas-proof by default, but they stop anything a normal wall would stop. Your gas grenade and "Knockout breath" would still be stopped at the barrier. But if you fire any are of effect NND against the barrier it would explode at it, but it's area of effect could still go through it.

 

One way to break a barrier are Penetrating attacks - they still insta kill a barrier unless it has equal amount of Impenetrable.

 

You could try to lower her powers with a plot device. Maybe a "gravity stabilisation field" that supresses all gravtic powers in an area? Is easier if she has Unified, but still works with expanded or variable effect.

 

I am not a fan of "Flight UAA". I think that moving foes on distance should simply be left with Telekinesis. It feels like cheating bricks out of thier defenses against movement (high weight and/or strenght).

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Tactical Analysis: Gravitar

 

Remember that Gravitar not only has a wide range of Powers, she can employ several types of attacks simultaneously, including formidable AOE attacks and ones requiring little or no Endurance. This makes her ideal for taking on entire teams of opponents, such as when she defeated Eurostar by holding most of them down with her heavy-gravity field, simultaneously holding Durak aloft where his Strength was useless, while using another gravitic Telekinesis to rip out Fiacho's cybernetics.

 

Gravitar's EGO and ECV are high enough to offer a fair degree of protection from standard-strength mentalists. I imagine anyone who used a Mental Power attack on her, and didn't take her down with it right away, would be subject to an immediate and devastating counterattack. Just holding a mentalist face-down on the ground would keep many of them from targeting her.

 

Gravitar has a pretty high "Gravity Manipulation Tricks" Power Skill roll which might allow her to improvise counters to some attacks vs. exotic defenses. For example, I remember the Marvel villain Graviton, with virtually the same type of power set, countering a gas attack by increasing the weight of the gas causing it to sink to the ground.

 

There's also this reminder from Gravitar's "Powers/Tactics" description in Champions Villains Vol. 1, p. 45: "Although almost no one knows it, Gravitar is also a skilled technologist. She won’t resort to building devices to enhance her powers in most situations — she doesn’t think she needs to, and doing so would cheapen her victory — but she may use gadgets in her schemes of world conquest, turn an adversary’s robots or computers against him, and so forth."

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Re: Tactical Analysis: Gravitar

 

I'm revising her origin for my campaign and in general making her a bit more like Marvel's Graviton(no secret ID, revels in using her power, not a mutant etc) So some of the comparisons to Gravtion are valid. I do remember when he first took on the WC Avengers. They beat him I recall through stealth and trickery...as they didn't have the raw power to take him down.

[Greywind]

Re: Tactical Analysis: Gravitar

 

When he first faced the Avengers, he did take them all out.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Tactical Analysis: Gravitar

 

I'm revising her origin for my campaign and in general making her a bit more like Marvel's Graviton(no secret ID' date=' revels in using her power, not a mutant etc) So some of the comparisons to Gravtion are valid. I do remember when he first took on the WC Avengers. They beat him I recall through stealth and trickery...as they didn't have the raw power to take him down.[/quote']

 

The fight I know best, they mostly beat him by playing on his big weakness of being a skirt-chaser ...

[Christopher]

Re: Tactical Analysis: Gravitar

 

I'm revising her origin for my campaign and in general making her a bit more like Marvel's Graviton(no secret ID' date=' revels in using her power, not a mutant etc) So some of the comparisons to Gravtion are valid. I do remember when he first took on the WC Avengers. They beat him I recall through stealth and trickery...as they didn't have the raw power to take him down.[/quote']

Gravitons fight with the Animated Series Avengers was the Epic "first level". They managed to get out of binds (like Ironman thrown into space or Thor pushed into the ocean floor) because somebody always managed to surprise Stun him.

 

The only could take him down with coordinated attacks and what seemed like a Pushed + Haymakered Lightning bolt from Thor. He was a littlebit singed after that.

[Epiphanis]

Re: Tactical Analysis: Gravitar

 

None of Gravitar's offensive powers are effective against Desolidified characters not specifically vulnerable to gravity.

 

She's got an easily activated Enrage, which effectively nullifies her Damage Negation and Barrier powers while in effect, leaving her very formidable but not completely impossible DR. Probably of more use is that Enrage causes her to forego her formidable AoE and multiple attack capabilities for more individually focussed attacks. One hardy opponent could draw her fire while more vulnerable teammates exploit her weak mental and power defenses or use NND attacks.

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: Tactical Analysis: Gravitar

 

True, but that better be a VERY hardy single opponent, as she can lob 20 DC attacks at him/her without pushing.

 

If someone can go intangible or project an image/mental illusion of a character that's not really there, it would be a great way to get her wasting her attacks harmlessly. Even better if there's enough coordination to make it seem that figure is the source of the attacks that are actually getting through to hurt her.

[phoenix240]

Re: Tactical Analysis: Gravitar

 

So she's an opponent that has to be outwitted instead of out muscled. Nice.

[Christopher]

Re: Tactical Analysis: Gravitar

 

True' date=' but that better be a VERY hardy single opponent, as she can lob 20 DC attacks at him/her without pushing.[/quote']

There are options such as "Interference". Even if it does not fully negate the attack, it might just soften it enough.

 

If someone can go intangible or project an image/mental illusion of a character that's not really there' date=' it would be a great way to get her wasting her attacks harmlessly. Even better if there's enough coordination to make it seem that figure is the source of the attacks that are actually getting through to hurt her.[/quote']

Wouldn't an illusion fail because of her Spartial Awareness? Don't have the writeup so I have no idea wich sense group it uses (but propably none).

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Tactical Analysis: Gravitar

 

So she's an opponent that has to be outwitted instead of out muscled. Nice.

 

Yep. Unless you've got enough muscle that the whole 'when all you have is a hammer' strategy actually works.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Tactical Analysis: Gravitar

 

Wouldn't an illusion fail because of her Spartial Awareness? Don't have the writeup so I have no idea wich sense group it uses (but propably none).

 

You are correct, "no Sense Group" (CV 1 p. 47).

[Bloodstone]

Re: Tactical Analysis: Gravitar

 

Gravitar's EGO and ECV are high enough to offer a fair degree of protection from standard-strength mentalists. I imagine anyone who used a Mental Power attack on her' date=' and didn't take her down with it right away, would be subject to an immediate and devastating counterattack. Just holding a mentalist face-down on the ground would keep many of them from targeting her.[/quote']

 

She has to id the source of the attack first though...

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Tactical Analysis: Gravitar

 

She has to id the source of the attack first though...

 

Is it not still part of Mental Powers under 6E, that if a Mental Power attack fails the target immediately knows the source of it?

[Bloodstone]

Re: Tactical Analysis: Gravitar

 

Is it not still part of Mental Powers under 6E' date=' that if a Mental Power attack fails the target immediately knows the source of it?[/quote'].

 

Sure, if you mind blast her, she's going to know the source and come for your head.

 

But with Mind Control or Mental Illusions she will only realize the source of the attack after she breaks out.

 

She's only DMCV of 8 and 25 EGO.

[Christopher]

Re: Tactical Analysis: Gravitar

 

She's only DMCV of 8 and 25 EGO.

Only? You call that "only"?

That is better then some Mentalists out there.

 

I can see a Mind Blast working - if she doesn't dodged that phase (wich would afaik affect her DMCV as well). But overall I don't think that is what i would call an "archilles heel".

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Tactical Analysis: Gravitar

 

You are correct' date=' "no Sense Group" (CV 1 p. 47).[/quote']

 

Yeah, that's a rule I don't use. Everything goes in a Sense Group, sorry. That said, an Image would probably fail, but a Mental Illusion would work.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Tactical Analysis: Gravitar

 

Only? You call that "only"?

That is better then some Mentalists out there.

 

Yes, I call that "only".

 

In this instance, we're talking about taking on a 1400+ pt master villain that in cannon defeats whole teams of experienced supers like Eurostar.

 

If the GM expects the PC's to survive, let alone have a shot at victory, they're going to need to be more than rank amateurs here.

 

However, a 25 EGO and 8 DMCV opponent should be defeated by a smart, well built, starting level mentalist more often than not.

 

So add some experience onto that and I will stand by my previous statement about mentalists crushing her.

 

I can see a Mind Blast working - if she doesn't dodged that phase (wich would afaik affect her DMCV as well).

 

Dodge only increases DCV, not DMCV

[phoenix240]

Re: Tactical Analysis: Gravitar

 

Its all relative but I think that, given the Champions Universe, Bloodstone has a point.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Tactical Analysis: Gravitar

 

No question that EGO and DMCV is an area where Gravitar is less defensively impressive; but IME the Breakout roll you get from an EGO of 25 is rough on starting-level mentalists. But a mentalist operating on Gravitar's level, like Menton or Arvad, could pretty much play her like a flute.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Tactical Analysis: Gravitar

 

No question that EGO and DMCV is an area where Gravitar is less defensively impressive; but IME the Breakout roll you get from an EGO of 25 is rough on starting-level mentalists.

 

I just don't see it as that bad.

 

12d6 is a typical 60 AP cap starting level mentalist's Mind Control or Mental Illusions.

 

The dead average roll on 12d6 is 42. That instantly knock's her breakout roll down from a 14- to an 11-. On a slightly above average roll of 45, we knock her down to a 10-.

 

Now, I would expect an experienced mentalist to probably have a few more dice to toss around, but even if they do not, they can always Haymaker from a safe distance to add +4d6 to Mind Control or Mental Illusions.

 

She can't perceive the attack, detect it's source, has no mental powers. Any levels go into OMCV and you don't have to worry about her counter attacking your reduced DCV (or DMCV since she has no mental powers). The delayed nature of the attack may even work in your favor.

 

Anyhow, average roll on 16d6 is 56. That's EGO +30 effects... or a reduced Breakout roll of 8-

 

And that's before we do anything like like Drain her EGO (a basic 4d6 drain reduces her to 11 EGO. Remember, she has no power defense either) or use Change Environment to reduce those Breakout rolls further (at a cost of 3pts per -1 penalty, it's worth looking into...).

[Christopher]

Re: Tactical Analysis: Gravitar

 

Dodge only increases DCV' date=' not DMCV[/quote']

I was almost certian that most thigns that affect DCV also affect DMCV. But apparently that only goes for certain halvings.

 

No question that EGO and DMCV is an area where Gravitar is less defensively impressive; but IME the Breakout roll you get from an EGO of 25 is rough on starting-level mentalists. But a mentalist operating on Gravitar's level' date=' like Menton or Arvad, could pretty much play her like a flute.[/quote']

 

I just don't see it as that bad.

 

12d6 is a typical 60 AP cap starting level mentalist's Mind Control or Mental Illusions.

 

The dead average roll on 12d6 is 42. That instantly knock's her breakout roll down from a 14- to an 11-. On a slightly above average roll of 45, we knock her down to a 10-.

Yes, for a EGO+0 effect.

Wich would mean you get her to attack person X over person Y, when there is absolutely no one out there who is a danger.

 

Now, I would expect an experienced mentalist to probably have a few more dice to toss around, but even if they do not, they can always Haymaker from a safe distance to add +4d6 to Mind Control or Mental Illusions.

 

She can't perceive the attack, detect it's source, has no mental powers. Any levels go into OMCV and you don't have to worry about her counter attacking your reduced DCV (or DMCV since she has no mental powers). The delayed nature of the attack may even work in your favor.

To attack from beyond sightrange with Mental Powers you need Mind Scan effect of EGO+10 (35 Roll).

With a decent amount of minions and innocents (more than 10) in the area, I wish you luck gettign that lock-on against DMCV 8 (while you are at -2 too -4).

 

Anyhow, average roll on 16d6 is 56. That's EGO +30 effects... or a reduced Breakout roll of 8-

 

And that's before we do anything like like Drain her EGO (a basic 4d6 drain reduces her to 11 EGO. Remember, she has no power defense either) or use Change Environment to reduce those Breakout rolls further (at a cost of 3pts per -1 penalty, it's worth looking into...).

For the drain, don't forget Barrier. It stops drains dead in 6E.