Knuckle Sammich Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 I built a villian NPC as the first super powered enemy to face off against my group, and was wondering if in your opinion this group of powers and tactics are too abusive... 1) Stand back in a crowd during a heist and target the heros with a 2d6 ranged BOECV EGO Drain. 2) When the NPC notices that her target is suffering from negative EGO, she'll hit them with a 1d6 Telepathy to give commands that the hero must roll vs the modified EGO to not follow. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 Telepathy only talks to people and reads their thoughts. If you want to command people, use Mind Control. If you want to command people easily, use Mind Control on low-EGO targets... but use Mind Control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 You could work it that way, I suppose. I'd rather just go the straight Mind Control route. This egoist could also be providing the rope to hang themselves this way...OK, gets hero to neg EGO, tells them to attack hero X. Hero Y is on to the scheme, tells him "Attack whoever gave you your last command!" and neg EGO hero goes and pastes the egoist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insaniac99 Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 Originally posted by Chuckg Telepathy only talks to people and reads their thoughts. If you want to command people, use Mind Control. If you want to command people easily, use Mind Control on low-EGO targets... but use Mind Control. here's what he means, low ego people are EXTREMELY suggestable, and negative ego people will jus do whatever they are told, doesn't matter by who really, so then using Telepthy the character tells the mech driver (who has a windowed cockpit) to attack the Viper agent, and the Agent's biggest weapon is now their enemy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insaniac99 Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 Originally posted by Supreme Serpent You could work it that way, I suppose. I'd rather just go the straight Mind Control route. This egoist could also be providing the rope to hang themselves this way...OK, gets hero to neg EGO, tells them to attack hero X. Hero Y is on to the scheme, tells him "Attack whoever gave you your last command!" and neg EGO hero goes and pastes the egoist. yep. that woudl be the downside... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phydaux Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 Well, I think it's a GREAT idea. Just be sure to limit yourself to 2D6 of Ego Drain. You'll avarage a 7 on 2D6. This will drain most heros to an EGO of 3 (10 - 7 = 3) and even high EGO heros and PCs (EGO 15-18) down to around a 10. For those really high EGO heros you just hit them twice with the Drain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutsleeve Posted October 22, 2003 Report Share Posted October 22, 2003 not a good idea imho all a hero would have to do is give the person a countering command such as whoop on that bad boy over there and then use an hearing flash so the character cant recieve any more commands the egoist gets a whoopin and you dont have to worry till the ego drain wears off because all you have to do is keep the guy flashed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insaniac99 Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 Originally posted by cutsleeve not a good idea imho all a hero would have to do is give the person a countering command such as whoop on that bad boy over there and then use an hearing flash so the character cant recieve any more commands the egoist gets a whoopin and you dont have to worry till the ego drain wears off because all you have to do is keep the guy flashed. here is the thing though, you give the command through Telepathy, and the otehrs don't know WHY the guy is doing somehting so weird, they didn't see the ego drain, and they don't know aobut the Telepathy, so they just see the guy all the sudden attacking someone he normally wouldn't for no reason, and they would think that he is Mind controlled if it is form a known super, so they would think commands wouldn't work, so they just say things like "snap out of it" which does nothing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateMousje Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 Originally posted by phydaux Well, I think it's a GREAT idea. Just be sure to limit yourself to 2D6 of Ego Drain. You'll avarage a 7 on 2D6. This will drain most heros to an EGO of 3 (10 - 7 = 3) and even high EGO heros and PCs (EGO 15-18) down to around a 10. For those really high EGO heros you just hit them twice with the Drain. Except EGO is 2 character points per point, and drain works off cp... a drain of 7 is only 3 (and a half, usually rounded in players favor) EGO. Maybe 4-5 shots to drain an average 10 (those post-12s...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phydaux Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 Originally posted by cutsleeve not a good idea imho.... feh! A clever combination of Mind Control, Telepathy and Invisible Effect would take care of all this. How about this - EGO Drain, ECV Based & Invisible Effect, then an Invisible Effect, ECV Based Hearing Flash, THEN Invisible Effect Telepathy to make the hero your Meat Puppet. I think you could fit all this nicely in a Multipower, along with Telescopic Vision OAF Binoculars so you can hit the hero from five blocks away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutsleeve Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 mind control with cumulative and invisible power affect would be better in my opinion. plus basically what you are doing is using 2 or 3 powers to simulate one Mind control. put a cumulative affect on mind control and you have an attack that you can keep hitting someone with and it will eventually take effect add invisible advantage and the person wont notice he is being attacked. plus your spending 5 points per d6 of base mind control and 10 points per d6 for base drain. then you also have to buy telepathy for 5 points per d6 of base telepathy. Plus if i where gm i would say that your based on ECV drain would be counterable by power defence and mental defence leaving you in a worse boat then straight mind control which i supressed by only mental defense. Ypu also have to consider that you are trying to build a roundabout version of mind control as a GM i would be very wary of allowing it when its just duplicating mind control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zornwil Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 Depending on the heroes' mix of abilities, it should be great. I think you just have to be careful/prepared if they get defeated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 Invisible Power Effects is the key here. Without it, the Hero in question knows where the Drain is coming from and can go paste the NPC (standard operating procedure vs. mentalists). With IPE, nobody knows anything until it's all over. So, as presented (without IPE), I wouldn't find this too abusive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuckle Sammich Posted October 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 Depending on the heroes' mix of abilities, it should be great. I think you just have to be careful/prepared if they get defeated. I introduced the NPC (Haywire) in the last session during an armoured car heist, she drained the EGO of the driver and told him to swerve into oncoming traffic. She stood back in among the bystanders while her ally and 2 henchmen were preparing to blow the doors off when the 3 PCs showed up. She immediately started draining the flying brick once she saw him almost knock out her ally in one punch, and commanded him to pick up his friend and throw him at the other. Seeing that the PCswere getting the short end of the stick I went easy on them. I had her command the brick to rip the doors off the armoured car, and after that told him to fly home as fast as possible. When the session ended in mid-combat things were looking bad for the PCs. I was careful when I built the NPC to not make her sadistic, or the game would turn into a bloodbath, I gave her an overconfident, cruel demeanor that has more fun toying with her victims. I predict the villians getting away without any money and the players howling for a rematch. BTW, about 20 minutes after the game ended I realised I was taking off EGO point for point which means the game would have gone differently for a round or two. The pitfalls of being a new Hero GM I guess.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuckle Sammich Posted October 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 Invisible Power Effects is the key here. Without it, the Hero in question knows where the Drain is coming from and can go paste the NPC (standard operating procedure vs. mentalists). With IPE, nobody knows anything until it's all over. Arrg! I forgot about IPE (the NPC doesn't have it.) So things will really change next game. I thought most mental powers were already invisible unless the Visible limitation was taken with the power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 Don't sweat it, mistakes get made all the time. It sounds like you did the right thing during the session, which is what counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateMousje Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 Originally posted by Knuckle Sammich Arrg! I forgot about IPE (the NPC doesn't have it.) So things will really change next game. I thought most mental powers were already invisible unless the Visible limitation was taken with the power. They are... but BOECV powers don't count as true mental powers. BOECV's description specifically notes that the power is still visible if it normally is, and doesn't grant mental awareness. Hm... I suppose I should check the FAQ to see if it becomes visible to mental awareness Anyways, nothing says you can't retroactively give your NPC IPE and/or another 2d6 drain if you want to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorItron Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 The aforementioned Drain / Flash / Mind Control (or Telepathy) power combos would work well against normals. Many supers would be immune, though, since just a little Power Defense, Flash Defense, or Mental Defense could completely negate part of the combo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffreyWKramer Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 Re: Too Cheap of a Power Combo? Originally posted by Knuckle Sammich 1) Stand back in a crowd during a heist and target the heros with a 2d6 ranged BOECV EGO Drain. 2) When the NPC notices that her target is suffering from negative EGO, she'll hit them with a 1d6 Telepathy to give commands that the hero must roll vs the modified EGO to not follow. Well, as others have summarized: Keep in mind that the BOECV EGO Drain is still visible, unless it is bought with Invisible Power Effects. BOECV does not automatically provide all qualities of Mental Powers, including automatic Invisible effects. It does become visible to Mental Awareness, though. Keep in mind also that even if the power itself is Invisible, the character will still be aware of its effects, and will probably do something about this long before his or her EGO goes negative. Even on a maxed roll, the 2d6 EGO Drain will drain a maximum of 6 EGO a shot, so unless your PCs have the EGO scores of hamsters, they will get to react before they get Drained down to zombie-land. In summary, the basic idea is sound, but to work it effectively, the villain has to spend a lot more points. I'd still tend to go with Mind Control in most situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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