Reloading a revolver

[tcabril]

I know it takes 1/2 a phase to pop in a new clip to an automatic weapon but how long does it take to reload a revolver (i.e. the 6 cartridges) or a shotgun or lever action rifle.

 

I can't seem to locate the ruling on this.

 

Thanks

Todd

[Christopher]

Re: Reloading a revolver

 

This is part of the Charges Limitation on the Weapon. In lack of any value, I would say a half phase as well.

 

There exist "fast loaders" for revolvers and a "half phase" for a normal Human (SPD 2) is around 3 seconds of game time.

[Tom Carman]

Re: Reloading a revolver

 

Going by memory here... In 4th Edition Western Hero, it took a phase to replace a spent revolver cylinder with a loaded one (these were old-style cap-and-ball revolvers). With metallic cartridges and a fixed-cylinder revolver, you could reload (extract and replace) 2 chambers per phase, more with a DEX roll.

[Christopher]

Re: Reloading a revolver

 

When you combine a swing out cylinder:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolver#Swing_out_cylinder

 

With a Revolver Fast Loader:

 

And a scucessfull Quick Draw Roll (to half the time needed to reload), it should not take a tops a full phase.

 

Older models could be like the first muskets:

They take up to a full turn/bullet to reload, so it's an out of combat action.

[tcabril]

Re: Reloading a revolver

 

Would it be unreasonable to say that it would take 1/2 phase to reload a cartridge and if one had Fast Draw - maybe reload 2 cartridges per 1/2 phase?

 

I recently came across a 4th editon Western Hero campaign book at a bin for old RPG stuff at a gaming store. I grabbed it for $5 but it is in pretty good shape.

 

I am considering a Western Hero type game - with PCs having only 175pts to build characters on - shoud be cool.

[Christopher]

Re: Reloading a revolver

 

So you are basically converting 4E tables to a 6E game?

My knowledge/books only goes back as far as 5E.

 

But generally:

The default time to change a "Clip" of charges is a Full Phase. A clip is defined as "however many charges the weapon can hold at once".

There are modifiers to the Charges Limitation if changing clips takes longer (-1/4: 2 Full Phase; -1/2: Turn).

A succesfull Fast Draw roll reduces that time by half.

[Tom Carman]

Re: Reloading a revolver

 

The cap-and-ball revolver cylinders were loaded from the front like a musket, with a built-in rammer to seal the bullet in: a time-consuming process. A detachable cylinder is effectively an early implementation of a "clip". At a reload rate of 2 cartridges per phase, then 1 per half-phase is reasonable. This allows those nicely cinematic scenes of loading a single round to fire RIGHT NOW!

[Christopher]

Re: Reloading a revolver

 

The cap-and-ball revolver cylinders were loaded from the front like a musket' date=' with a built-in rammer to seal the bullet in: a time-consuming process. A detachable cylinder is effectively an early implementation of a "clip". At a reload rate of 2 cartridges per phase, then 1 per half-phase is reasonable. This allows those nicely cinematic scenes of loading a single round to fire RIGHT NOW![/quote']

That is simply the GM "pro-rating" the reload time based on special effect. The same way he could pro-rate the recovery of a Endurance Reserve.

If the full reload takes two Full phases, then with a Quick Draw Roll, a half phase and the right special effects a character could load that pump-action shootgun half. The same trick would not work with a heavy mg with belt-feed.

 

There is also the option to extend ammo clips with Heroic Action Points. (cinematic ammo capacity)

[Beast]

Re: Reloading a revolver

 

there are also 1/2 moon clips

it is a piece of thin steel that hold 3 bullets(for a 6 shooter)just above the base

they in effect turn a revolver in to a clip based gun

most modern revolvers will eject all the rounds quickly(no time)

Speed loaders and 2 1/2 moons take a phase to reload 1/2 if you make a fast draw roll

[tcabril]

Re: Reloading a revolver

 

I was not intending to convert the 4th edition Western Hero to 6th edtion - rather just poking around for ideas.

 

I am looking at what "naked" advantages would be allowable. So far I think Double Knockback would be fine but I am up in the air about Autofire - it may be very unrealistic for a Western campaign. I know people will immediately go for the whole "fan-firing" Hollywood schtick but historically it was not really ever done (at least according to Wild West Tech on the History Channel)

[brionl]

Re: Reloading a revolver

 

It depends on the revolver. Modern double action revolvers have the swing-out cylinders that you can reload fairly quickly.

Old-west single action revolvers, even with the cartridges you do one at a time. Poke the old cartridge out slip in a new one, flip to the next hole. Goes fairly quickly, but I would still say 3 or 4 phases total. And then there are the ones like bend in half like the Smith & Wesson No 3 (Also variations Schofield or Russian) and the Merwin-Hulbert where you can reload to whole cylinder at once. But they were fairly rare.

Cap and ball percussion revolvers, some of them you can replace the cylinder fairly easy, some of them it's a major evolution. So it depends on the model. Like in "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly". When he hears the guys with spurs in the hallway and has to put his pistol back together real quick. That's a cartridge revolver but it's a conversion of a percussion revolver.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Reloading a revolver

 

First I am assuming this will be a somewhat cinematic game. With a speed loader I'd say one full phase, same as a "clip". This could be dropped to 1/2 phase with a Fast Draw roll. I probably wouldn't make it more than 2 phases with a manual reload, dropped to 1 phase (or 1 1/2 if you prefer) with FDraw. I base single rounds or less than fully loaded off the numbers I chose for with and without a speed loader. EDIT: This is assuming you are emulating Western movies/fiction to some degree.

[Tom Carman]

Re: Reloading a revolver

 

A couple shots of rapid fire would be reasonable with fanning or a lever-operated gun. Maybe even with a double-action revolver on a DEX-based roll; but only a real automatic weapon could fire faster.

 

Ultimately, the reloading speed depends on the era and the design of the revolver. Cap-and-ball loaded so slowly that it was reasonable to carry extra cylinders. A fixed-cylinder pistol like a single-action Colt Peacemaker had a "loading gate" to load rounds one at a time: you might have to be really good to load 4 bullets in a phase through that. Top-break and side-swing-out revolvers can use the various sorts of speedloaders, but those are noted as being less sturdy and may require more maintenance.

[RexMundi]

Re: Reloading a revolver

 

I was not intending to convert the 4th edition Western Hero to 6th edtion - rather just poking around for ideas.

 

I am looking at what "naked" advantages would be allowable. So far I think Double Knockback would be fine but I am up in the air about Autofire - it may be very unrealistic for a Western campaign. I know people will immediately go for the whole "fan-firing" Hollywood schtick but historically it was not really ever done (at least according to Wild West Tech on the History Channel)

 

 

Bob Munden and a few other folks would disagree.......

 

 

He's got more then a few demo vid's on youtube, plus you can find the Stan Lee's Real Super Human's episode with him in it.

 

~Rex ....This is a good vid for showing (you can time it) the loading of a SA .45 Old School.

[tcabril]

Re: Reloading a revolver

 

That vid is awesome!!!

However I was not stating that it was never done - accuracy is what I was getting at

 

What I remember from Wild West Tech was that yes one could fan fire a weapon but the accuracy was for naught. I honestly don't know much about firearms more than I never want to be hit by one!

 

What I am gearing toward is campaign with the feel of the TV series Magnificent Seven (and the movie of course). During gunfights they are always ducking down and reloading so I was just trying to get the timing down for Hero System.

[RexMundi]

Re: Reloading a revolver

 

If you watch the Super Humans episode you'll see Bob Mundan can punch the X Ring with every shot with a grouping that shocks pro's, And, does it all from a hip draw and shoot with a single action .45 You can find piles of Bob Munden vid's on youtube most of them off that page I posted or his own channel there. SO, not only Fanned, but from the Hip, and all in a 2 inch group for the most part. Dead Center. That's about as accurate as you can get and Bob's not the only one that can do it. There's an Entire Competive edition of shooting for it as well. Should see the Lever Action Rifle stuff.

 

~Rex

[Duane From RI]

Re: Reloading a revolver

 

I think if you want the feel of The Magnificent Seven whereby you have to duck down and reload, then go with that. Rules are nice but the BEAUTY of Hero system is that YOU THE GM are allowed to make your own rules. You aren't being arbitrary here. If your players want to know why they need to take time to reload, show them a clip from Magnificent Seven and tell them that this is what you are going for. If someone asks you if he can fan his pistol and put six shots center mass, ask him what movie he is basing his idea on. Tell them that Quick and the Dead is out of bounds, tell them that you are little more cinematic than Unforgiven, but not quite as cinematic as Silverado.

My point is the target FEEL is the defacto rule.

[Vondy]

Re: Reloading a revolver

 

I can slide 2 loose cartridges into revolver cylinders in approx. 2-3 seconds. I can load all six chambers revolver in normal revolver 7-8 seconds. I would argue a person who knows what they are doing and are inured to pressure in tight situations could load 2 cartridges per phase. With a speed loader I've worked it until I load as fast as I can a magazine for a semi-auto. For an old West game it depends on whether you go pre or post cartridge. The old cap and ball guns could take a turn per chamber (hence carrying 2 revolvers is a good idea). Going into the 1880's cartridges that are basically "modern" become the norm. Something else to keep in mind is that the pre-cartridge revolvers took longer to open and close than those of the latter Old West and beyond, and sometimes you had to take the cylinder out, load it, and replace it.

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Reloading a revolver

 

there are also 1/2 moon clips

it is a piece of thin steel that hold 3 bullets(for a 6 shooter)just above the base

they in effect turn a revolver in to a clip based gun

most modern revolvers will eject all the rounds quickly(no time)

Speed loaders and 2 1/2 moons take a phase to reload 1/2 if you make a fast draw roll

 

I'd personally go with one full moon clip.