Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

[esampson]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

I'm sorry that you feel that the discussion is nonsense. You are absolutely correct that comics are a form of art and not reality an I've tried to be really, really clear that I'm not saying you can't enjoy comic books, current comics aren't good, that comics need to be more real, etc.

 

The whole kerfuffle has sprung up from the fact that I said that I found DC to be a bit more superficial (I would now use the word 'over simplified') than Marvel to which people responded 'it isn't superficial at all' and I've been in a position of 'what are you talking about?'.

 

I've tried to make it really clear that I don't think that comic books need to be highly realistic. I've tried to make it clear that I don't think Superman needs to be changed at all.

 

Superman was used as an example to people who say that there isn't a great deal of simplification in certain aspects of DCs comics. I've really tried to restrict my use of him as an example to that purpose and the '4 bomb deathtrap' was an example of how that aspect of his personality was too simplistic to work in the real world (again, because people were claiming that there wasn't any such simplification). Not because I thought he'd be a better character if he were written without that aspect of his personality. Not because I thought he was a bad character. Not because I wanted to see Superman in torment because schools were being blown up.

 

It's basically a situation where I said 'I enjoy the alternative because it has less X' and people have jumped in rather vociferously saying 'the first product doesn't have any X', so I use an example to point out X.

 

You, sir, are completely correct that all the different products out there are full of X. Some have less X than others but they all have it. I never said they shouldn't. I never asked for an "X-less" comic (though I know many people who feel that there is entirely to much X being published by Marvel). My usage of Superman has never been to show that company A has more X in their comic than company B. My usage of Superman was because people were saying that company A doesn't have any X at all.

 

Of course they do! And there's nothing wrong with X! I wish I could have more X! Its the joy of X! X is natural! X is fun! X is best when it's.....wait a minute.

 

Sorry. Starting to digress from my point.

 

Anyway, what you are talking about vis-a-vis competitor products is really along the lines of "I prefer company A's X and their usage of it over company B's" (because let's face it, X itself isn't simple. You have X of character personalities and motivation, X of situations, X of physics which let some people hold up buses by their bumpers, etc.)

 

That's really a preference thing and I can understand that we don't agree on preferences. In fact that was the whole thing this thread was founded upon. Which do you prefer?

[Cassandra]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

Of the two, I would say that Marvel Characters are more "realistic" in terms of power levels. In the Silver Age you had Superman moving the planets around, while Hulk could lift a tank. Personally, and reflected in my designs, I go the Marvel route.

 

The characters put forth the the "Official" company games are less helpful in building them. You have the pre-Crisis Superman capable of lifting Mount Everest, and Gorilla Grodd being able to press an Aircraft Carrier. Grodd is stronger them a human, but that's just ridiculous.

 

The conversions based on Marvel characters aren't much better. I think setting realistic limits, say max 60 STR 30 Defense would allow build that balance out in the end.

 

Regarding how buff Clark Kent is my build of Superman on this Thread has him with 15 STR vs. the Max 60 STR he normally can utilize. Now, I know that doesn't seem much but consider that he is more then capable of beating a normal man to death with his bare hands. Further, his 5 PD +3 rPD Combat Luck makes him all but immune to a 10 STR individual. Super-Agents with a few points of Martial Arts are another story, but that's the price Superman pays for falling into a Red Solar Radiation trap.

[Cassandra]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

Just curious, but how much is the FB: Former U.S. President cost?

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

Just curious' date=' but how much is the FB: Former U.S. President cost?[/quote']

 

I'd say probably in the 5-7 pt range.

[esampson]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

Just curious' date=' but how much is the FB: Former U.S. President cost?[/quote']

Kind of varies based on campaign/GM I would think. I don't believe that a former U.S. President technically gains any benefit over any other citizen (beyond secret service bodyguards and I'm not sure you should get those without purchasing Followers). I mean, sure, you get lots of goodies that aren't related to the law but do you require people to buy FB: Rockstar?

 

I know there are some FB that don't have legal status, such as Criminal Leader, but even then there's a sort of official position within a structure involved.

[massey]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

Of the two, I would say that Marvel Characters are more "realistic" in terms of power levels. In the Silver Age you had Superman moving the planets around, while Hulk could lift a tank. Personally, and reflected in my designs, I go the Marvel route.

 

The characters put forth the the "Official" company games are less helpful in building them. You have the pre-Crisis Superman capable of lifting Mount Everest, and Gorilla Grodd being able to press an Aircraft Carrier. Grodd is stronger them a human, but that's just ridiculous.

 

The conversions based on Marvel characters aren't much better. I think setting realistic limits, say max 60 STR 30 Defense would allow build that balance out in the end.

 

Regarding how buff Clark Kent is my build of Superman on this Thread has him with 15 STR vs. the Max 60 STR he normally can utilize. Now, I know that doesn't seem much but consider that he is more then capable of beating a normal man to death with his bare hands. Further, his 5 PD +3 rPD Combat Luck makes him all but immune to a 10 STR individual. Super-Agents with a few points of Martial Arts are another story, but that's the price Superman pays for falling into a Red Solar Radiation trap.

 

Wow. We build characters very differently. I don't think he should lose to anyone in the Champions Universe. He's the original superhero. My version would beat Dr. Destroyer. I don't want a Superman who loses to Durak. I want All-Star Superman.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

Wow. We build characters very differently. I don't think he should lose to anyone in the Champions Universe. He's the original superhero. My version would beat Dr. Destroyer. I don't want a Superman who loses to Durak. I want All-Star Superman.

 

Characters don't exist in a vacuum. Most versions of Superman have set him as one of the 1st Superheroes to make a public appearance (sometimes his first appearance is after Batman like in the DCAU). Most builds of the character posted on this forum are intended to be used as PC's since there is not much roleplaying use to having an NPC hero around that has such potential to overshadow the PC's. It stands to reason if someone is running a first superheroes Justice League type game and someone plays Superman or a pastiche of the character then the GM is going to gauge his villains power level to him. Comparing him to published Champions Universe characters is about as useful as comparing him to Marvel's Thor or Dr. Doom.

[massey]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

Characters don't exist in a vacuum. Most versions of Superman have set him as one of the 1st Superheroes to make a public appearance (sometimes his first appearance is after Batman like in the DCAU). Most builds of the character posted on this forum are intended to be used as PC's since there is not much roleplaying use to having an NPC hero around that has such potential to overshadow the PC's. It stands to reason if someone is running a first superheroes Justice League type game and someone plays Superman or a pastiche of the character then the GM is going to gauge his villains power level to him. Comparing him to published Champions Universe characters is about as useful as comparing him to Marvel's Thor or Dr. Doom.

 

You're right, characters don't exist in a vacuum. You've got to compare them to something. And when you compare them to standard published characters, this Superman comes up short. Face it, Superman isn't a starting character. He's not a 250 guy. If you're running a Justice League type game, it's okay to give people more points. Otherwise you're just playing a guy who looks like Superman.

[massey]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

Superman

 

Str 175

Dex 38

Con 75

Body 30

Int 33

Ego 35

Pre 60

Com 20

PD 75

ED 75

Spd 9

Rec 50

End 150

Stun 160

 

+3 Overall, +2 OCV

Acting 21-, Breakfall 17-, Comp Programming 16-, Concealment 16-, Conversation 21-, Cramming, Criminology 21-, Cryptography 16-, Deduction 16-, Demolitions 16-, Disguise 16-, Electronics 16-, Forensic Medicine 16-, Interrogation 21-, Inventor 16-, Inventor 16-, Lipreading 16-, Lockpicking 17-, Mechanics 16-, Mimicry 16-, Navigation 16-, Oratory 21-, Paramedics 16-, Power 16-, Research 16-, Security Systems 16-, Sleight of Hand 17-, Streetwise 21-, Survival 16-, Systems Operation 16-, Tactics 16-, Teamwork 17-, Tracking 16-, Ventriloquism 16-, Weaponsmith 16-, PS: Reporter 16-

 

Scientist: Astronomy, Biology, Chemistry, Dimensional Physics, Engineering, Genetics, Mathematics, Nuclear Physics, Physics, Robotics (all 16-)

 

Linguist: French, German, Italian, Japanese, Kryptonese, Russian, Spanish (all completely fluent)

 

Scholar: Kryptonian Culture, Politics and Current Events, Superhuman World (all 16-)

 

Traveler: AK Earth, Kansas, Metropolis, United States (all 16-)

 

Contacts: Batman 14-, Wonder Woman 14-, Cadmus 12-, Star Labs 12-, Legion of Superheroes 8-, US Gov't 13-, United Nations 12-

Press Pass, 10 pts Wealth, Reputation: Man of Steel 14-, +3D6

Base: Fortress of Solitude

 

Absolute Range Sense, Absolute Time Sense, Bump of Direction, Eidetic Memory, Lightning Calculator, Lightsleep, Speed Reading x1M, Universal Translator 16-

 

DR 60/60 Hardened, all PD/ED Hardened, 50% PD and ED Reduction, Resistant, -15" KB Resistance, -10 Lack of Weakness, 15 pts Flash Defense (all), 15 pts Mental Defense, 20 pts Power Defense

 

Autofire x5, 1/2 End on Str

Missile Deflection (bullets), Reflection, Reflect at any target

 

LS: Full

2 Body Regeneration

 

165 pt Multipower - movement

50" Flight x8 ncm, 1/2 end, no turn mode

20" Flight 1/2 end, megascale 1,000 km per inch, scaled

FTL - 15 LY/hr

50" Leaping x8 ncm, accurate

20" Leaping, megascale 100 km per inch, scaled

40" Running x8 ncm, 1/2 end

15" Running, megascale 100 km per inch, scaled

25" Swimming x4 ncm

10" Swimming, megascale 100 km per inch, scaled

Tunneling 20"/20 Def, fill in hole, x8 ncm

Tunneling 6"/20 Def, fill in hole, megascale 100 km per inch, scaled

 

+8 PER all senses, Nightvision, IR Vision, UV Vision, N-Ray Perception, Microscopic Vision x1M, HRRH, Ultrasonic Hearing, Targeting Hearing, +24 vs Range mods (all), Rapid x1000 (all)

 

150 pt Multipower

30D6 Energy Blast - Heat Vision

10D6 RKA - Heat Vision

25D6 Dispel Fire (4 powers simultaneously)

90 Str TK, affects porous, affects whole object

Change Environment, 32" radius, -4 PER rolls, 10 pts TK Str, -4 Dex rolls, -4" movement, -5 Temp adjustment, alterable size, multiple combat effects, varying combat effects

15D6 Entangle

 

150 pt VPP, Cosmic, limited class of powers

 

3D6 Luck

 

Plus appropriate disads. 2857 points.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

Yeah, that would never see play in any game I'd run. I much prefer the lower-powered DCAU version.

[massey]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

Yeah' date=' that would never see play in any game I'd run. I much prefer the lower-powered DCAU version.[/quote']

 

To each their own. But the DC Animated guy isn't a 60 Str either. And my Superman doesn't die in a housefire.

[Greywind]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

That's a cosmic level Superman. It would never see play in my campaign either.

[massey]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

That's a cosmic level Superman. It would never see play in my campaign either.

 

Okay. I think Superman should be a cosmic level character. What does your Superman look like? What would see play in your game? I felt we needed some representation on the other end of the scale. Too many writeups lately look like they stepped off the set of a low budget 1970s TV show, where Shazam has to save a horse from Old Man Murdoch so the bank doesn't repossess the family farm. Remember the old Incredible Hulk/Daredevil/Thor TV movie? Electric Company Spider-Man? That's what you get on 250. That wouldn't get play in my campaign unless you want Sammy Davis Jr sticking his head out the window to talk to you as you climb the side of the building.

[Greywind]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

Batman explained once that he took exception to the JLA Satellite, and later the Watchtower. Not because they didn't have their place, but they removed the League from the problems of the day-to-day. They put themselves into a position where they were literally looking down on people.

 

Cosmic heroes, by their very nature, are not going to care for the little things. "Oh, hey, we rendered half your world uninhabitable? Not my problem." They don't have the connection to people. The issues they face would be at a scale that people could not comprehend them.

 

I don't recall a Hulk/Daredevil/Thor. I do recall a movie with Hulk and Daredevil, and another with Hulk and Thor. On the other hand, I assume you took issue with this year's Avengers?

 

I have no interest in cosmic. Honestly, characters of that power level have no business on Earth.

 

I've never seen need for a character to have a STR that exceeds 100. I did have a player once create a character with a STR of 120. I took exception to it. His sole reason for doing it was "Because I'd never done it before." With that level you aren't punching holes in walls; you're punching city blocks over. This same player refused to have Dr. Destroyer or Menton running around simply because they were too powerful.

 

The old Mayfair/DC Heroes always rated Superman higher as a character when he was solo. He was rated lower while running around with the League. We get the same, if inverse situation with comics when you have Batman having issues with street gangs when he's in his own books and yet capable of one-punching Darkseid if the writer thinks it's a neat schtick when the Bat is with the League.

 

You take issues with the old Batman? That's your problem. You're tired of seeing the lower end builds? Obviously people enjoy that type of thing. Cassandra has her thread going as personal project because she enjoys it. E84 does if for the same reason. You want to see cosmic level? Start a thread and start compiling your characters.

 

My take on Superman? Why would you want to see it? My idea of Supes is superMan. A lot closer to the Man of Steel reboot than Silver Age.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

To each their own. But the DC Animated guy isn't a 60 Str either. And my Superman doesn't die in a housefire.

And doesn't lose his powers near kryptonite either. I noticed that u critiqued a 250 point version but not my 400 point one.

[massey]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

Superman cares about the little things. That's part of who he is. Having a high strength doesn't change that. If you'll read back through some old Silver Age comics, you'll find just as many stories about him hiding his secret identity from Lois Lane, or stopping a volcano from destroying a village, as you will him pushing a planet. Numbers on a page don't prevent you from giving a character whatever personality you choose.

 

I don't understand why I wouldn't like The Avengers. It was possibly the best comic book movie ever made. But let's look at those characters. Iron Man: out-dogfights F-22s, intercepts and redirects a nuclear missile, blows up a tank with one shot, gets shot by tank without being knocked unconscious, flies halfway around world in a few hours. Thor: kills frost giants and monsters in one blow, collapses half of frost giant iceberg continent thing, smashes through helicarrier like it wasn't there in fight with Hulk, uses super-lightning to kill 3 flying cyber-dragon things in one blast. The other Avengers have similar feats. These guys aren't 250 characters, and yet they haven't lost their connection to the people. I probably couldn't build any of the powered characters in that movie for less than 500 points, and that's cutting corners. Superheroes regularly punch city blocks over. Watch the DC Animated episode where Superman finally cuts loose on Darkseid. "Blah blah blah world of cardboard, now I can finally hit somebody." With a punch he sends him rocketing backward through multiple skyscrapers.

 

The Mayfair game never altered Superman's stats for team play. I oughta know, since I used those books just the other day to make that Superman writeup (he's Earth 2 Superman from the 1st edition Superman Sourcebook toned down a bit, honestly). I've got them all, first through third edition (and those I don't own, I have on PDF).

 

This thread is titled "Gods with Off Switches vs Loaded Guns". I generally avoid character writeup threads. I've seen some of Cassandra's writeups before, and obviously I disagree with them. But I try to keep my nose out of those threads and my opinions to myself on that. This is different, because I didn't think this was a writeup thread. She doesn't post one until page 3, posted only two writeups, and the conversation doesn't revolve around it. Can Superman be considered a "god with an off switch" if that off-switch is a 12D6 energy blast? With his 6D6 energy blast heat vision he can't melt steel. In a thread that revolves around how other people write up characters, I think that invites other people to share their opinions.

 

I don't have a problem with the Adam West Batman. I don't have a problem with the Lou Ferigno Incredible Hulk. I don't have a problem with TV Daredevil or the Thor who was a blonde guy with hammer and Schwarzenegger-level strength who may or may not have been bulletproof. You can play those characters if you want. I won't try to stop you. 70's TV Show Champions might be a blast. You could team up with the Six Million Dollar Man. I might even want to play in that game.

 

You want a god with an off switch? My Superman fills that role. I didn't post his disads because I thought the list was getting too long, but he's weak against magic, kryptonite, and red sun energy (his defenses are permeable to them -- those attacks are automatically Penetrating against him). He's got a physical limitation that he's stunned automatically when first exposed to kryptonite ("Aarrgghh!!! Kryptonite!!!"). He's got a 14 or less Rep so everyone knows everything about his weaknesses. He never ever uses full power (he'll hold himself to 10 or 12D6 for a while to make sure he doesn't hurt even superpowered opponents) and usually doesn't use his full DCV (better that bad guys shoot at him rather than anyone else). This is the Superman who holds back so that even villains feel good about themselves. "Wow, you may be the strongest opponent I've ever faced!" he says as he gets hit by Bulldozer for 32 Stun and 9 Body (before defenses).

 

Read Kingdom Come again. Watch the All-Star Superman animated movie. There's a place for these characters in a Champions game. I'd even argue there's a need for these characters in the Champions Universe, even if it's in the background. There needs to be a reason why Dr Destroyer doesn't take over the world with his plan of "It's Tuesday. I'm going to walk out on the street and shoot every hero I see with a 30D6 Energy Blast. When more heroes show up, I'll shoot them with a 30D6 Energy Blast. I'll keep doing this until all the heroes are dead or until it is lunchtime. Then I will go home. I will tell the heroes 'See you next Tuesday...'" Right now, that's a perfectly valid plan. Right now the Champions Universe has ample Lex Luthors and Darkseids, with no one to counter them.

[massey]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

And doesn't lose his powers near kryptonite either. I noticed that u critiqued a 250 point version but not my 400 point one.

 

I didn't post his disads, but no, he doesn't lose his powers. I figured I can explain the varying effects of kryptonite by making villains buy it as a power. Normal everyday chunk of meteorite that anybody could find on the ground (i.e., not pay points for) does 3D6 Stun per segment. It hurts Superman to be near it. If he stays near it too long, it can kill him. He's also stunned by initial exposure, so he loses his action. He's vulnerable to kryptonite attacks (x1.5 stun) and it cuts through his defenses (getting Penetrating for free). So a 2D6 RKA kryptonite laser pistol will put Body on him. You want anything more? Want his powers to disappear? You've gotta buy that. That's what Lex Luthor's gadget pool is for. 6D6 Drain versus physical stats and powers, special effect: kryptonite. That lets you get Superman Returns where he can lift the giant kryptonite island out of the water and throw it into space, but then collapses into a coma afterwards.

 

I'll take a look at your 400 point Superman later on and see if I have any problems with it.

[kahuna's bro]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

the lose his powers part may be from the super friends version of supes the hanna barberra writers had to compy with ABC TVs standards and practices of the anti tv violence 1970s when the orignal show aired so they had to be carefull depicting the effects of green k

[Cassandra]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

I don't know, Massey. Maybe the Frost Giants in the Movie were 150 Points Builds, all put into Growth and LS.

[Cassandra]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

Which would you rather see? A Superman who can lift a tank and slug it out with the Hulk on an even basis, or one that lifts a Kryptonite Island and tosses into space. (Trick question: No one want to see Superman Returns).

[phoenix240]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

Which would you rather see? A Superman who can lift a tank and slug it out with the Hulk on an even basis' date=' or one that lifts a Kryptonite Island and tosses into space. (Trick question: No one want to see Superman Returns).[/quote']

 

Actually. I enjoyed Superman Returns. But everyone has an opinion. Superman the incarnate god and Superman the somewhat tougher than average flying brick both have their place, IMO. For gaming I generally prefer the lower end version though particularly as a player character.

[Cassandra]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

The special effects were good, Phoenix. They just seemed to be building on the foundation of the original movies. Kate Bosworth was too young. Lex Luthor's plan was nearly as bad as Superman 3's plan to use weather satellites to control the weather (which they don't).

 

Superman has a kid. Lois is in relationship with another man. Where do you go from there?

[phoenix240]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

The special effects were good, Phoenix. They just seemed to be building on the foundation of the original movies. Kate Bosworth was too young. Lex Luthor's plan was nearly as bad as Superman 3's plan to use weather satellites to control the weather (which they don't).

 

Superman has a kid. Lois is in relationship with another man. Where do you go from there?

 

Comic book villains with cheesy, unreasonable plans aren't something I get too picky about. Personally, I liked the drama about the kid and Lois' new relationship. It made the characters feel real, human and fallible. Like something was changing and took care of some of the "disconnect" from mundane concerns that high powered characters get for me.

 

YMMV, of course.

[massey]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

I don't know' date=' Massey. Maybe the Frost Giants in the Movie were 150 Points Builds, all put into Growth and LS.[/quote']

 

Might have been. Probably were. And he was smacking those suckers around like they didn't even matter. Assume they're Fantasy Hero versions of giants. I don't have that book in front of me, but maybe 30-40 Str, 12-15 PD? Something like that? And he's spreading to hit 3 or 4 of them at a time? Sounds like he's throwing at least 15D6 or so to reliably do something like that.

 

Which would you rather see? A Superman who can lift a tank and slug it out with the Hulk on an even basis' date=' or one that lifts a Kryptonite Island and tosses into space. (Trick question: No one want to see Superman Returns).[/quote']

 

Why not both? Some background: the version of the character I posted was intended to operate in a DC Universe (or a DC/Marvel combined verse) where people appeared when they appeared in comics. So Supes landed on Earth in like 1915. He went through his "more powerful than a locomotive" (75 Str), "leap tall buildings in a single bound" (40"x8 ncm superleap) phase. That's where he was back in the 30s. Since then he's been soaking up yellow sunlight for decades, leading to the gray at the temples guy who is the most powerful hero on the planet. Basically this guy was designed to fit a particular campaign world, where it's not a big deal to have one guy who is far more powerful than others.

 

It's okay to have a different writeup to fit different campaign worlds. A Superman in a world where no one has adjustment powers doesn't need Power Defense. A Superman where he's the only superhuman on the planet can probably be scaled back (or scaled up, honestly) without affecting the story much. Superman from Lois and Clark or Smallville probably doesn't need the same power scale as one from an active DC comics universe. And what I said earlier stands, if the Linda Carter TV show is your Wonder Woman, Superman could probably be a 50 or 60 Str and be okay.

 

Generally though, I take the position that normal superhero worlds are going to at least match the power level of 3rd edition Champions. 10 to 12D6 attacks are the standard. So when I see a Batman who gets stomped into the dirt by BBB Green Dragon, or Superman who gets defeated by Obsidian, I respond negatively. A playable Superman is hard to balance with the rest of the group, because his concept is "I'm better than these guys". Generally he should be tougher than the other heroes, but with vulnerabilities that those guys don't have.

 

Clearly a lot of these stats are subjective. We can't objectively measure how much Ego Supes should have. We have to say "well, this guy has a 10 Ego, that guy has a 15, and this other guy has a 20. So Superman should be right here." Then we are left with what "feels right".

 

Michael Jordan

Str 10

Dex 10

Con 10

Body 10

Int 10

Ego 10

Pre 10

Com 10

PD 2

ED 2

Spd 2

Rec 4

End 20

Stun 20

 

10 pts wealth

PS: Basketball player 12-

+3" Jumping

 

I don't think anyone would be happy with that writeup for MJ. But in a minimalist design, there's nothing objectively wrong with it. It depends who you're comparing him to. And Superman Returns wasn't horrible. I really liked the Richard Donner movies. I was just a little kid when I saw them, but they hold a special place for me. And Superman Returns really tried hard to be those movies. It hit the nostalgia button hard, golden age of Hollywood stuff. It was sadly just kinda boring.

[phoenix240]

Re: Gods with Off Switches vs. Loaded Guns. DC vs. Marvel in Character Design.

 

I don't think anyone would be happy with that writeup for MJ.

 

Off topic, but it mostly works for me. Most Normals have 8s in my games so some Int might be lowers (might put those points into Running) but aside from that, it works for me.