Popularity of Superhero Groups in a Shared Universe

[Cassandra]

How popular would supehero groups be in a world where Marvel and DC superheroes exist together?

 

Justice League of America - Very Popular with Public, trusted by Governments around the World and the Known Universe (Superman's Rep a big help here).

 

The Avengers - Go to Group for U.S. Government through SHIELD. Popular with Public and Allied Nations. Wary when Hulk is Around.

 

Teen Titans - Popular with Public. Not Taken Seriously by Government. Considered "Superhero Academy" or "Sidekicks are Us".

 

The Defenders - Public Unawrae that this group exist, but then again so are the members.

 

The X-Men - Public Generally Unaware of this group. Government Suspicious. Covert operations. Makes friends and ememies easily.

 

Justice Society of America - Popular with older citizens. Seen as outdated.

 

Any thoughts?

[wcw43921]

Re: Popularity of Superhero Groups in a Shared Universe

 

I'm inclined to think that the Avengers and the Justice League would end up being combined into one group, if not through government influence then by mutual agreement. Both teams have one thing in common--they're solo heroes, each with a solid career or thier own, who have banded together for a common purpose. I don't know as the Avengers would be the government team--remember originally they were funded by Tony Stark, whose "bodyguard" Iron Man was one of its founding members. While they maintain cordial relations with the United Nations and the US Government ("Mr. President, this is Superman. We've noticed that Tropical Storm Bernard has picked up speed and is headed towards the Atalntic Coast. What can we do to help?") they are not acting as its agents. The US Government would likely have its own team of heroes, most likely led by Captain Atom and taking assignments from Nick Fury.

 

I don't see the Doom Patrol on that list, but I figure they've most likely combined with the Defenders. (Would they be called the Defender Patrol? The Doomfenders?)

 

The Fantastic Four would be quite popular, I think--Reed Richards would be big with the science and technology crowd, while Susan Storm Richards would be regarded as one of the most beautiful women in America. Johnny would be a teen idol, and Ben would be popular with older folks.

 

As I said in another thread, I think Spider-Man should have his own team of heroes--to wit, Spider-Man And The Spider Command, a team in the mold of Batman and the Outsiders. I imagine The Prowler and Black Cat as members, along with Steel Spider and Scarlet Spider, who may--or may not--be Spider Man's clone. I don't know how popular they'd be--not very I would imagine, what with J. Jonah Jameson working full-time to undermine his reputation and the Black Cat's own reputation as a criminal.

 

Hope that helps.

[gojira]

Re: Popularity of Superhero Groups in a Shared Universe

 

I like Casandra's split for JLA and Avengers: JLA is a group that is seen as protecting the whole world, and the Avengers is seen as the U.S. team. They should work together often, but there should be separate command structures.

 

This contradicts some of the Avenger's canon, say vis-a-vis the recent animated story lines for Ms. Marvel, but I think it could still work to say the U.S. has an independent space command from the JLA. It would make sense, I think, for a government like the US to do that. Other governments should have their own super-augmented space commands too: probably the EU, China, and some old left-over Russian stuff.

[Greywind]

Re: Popularity of Superhero Groups in a Shared Universe

 

JLA and Avengers serve the same purpose in their respective realities. It wasn't until JLI that the League was really considered a world force.

[wcw43921]

Re: Popularity of Superhero Groups in a Shared Universe

 

Which is why I suggested that in a single reality the JLA and Avengers would be combined into one team.

[Cassandra]

Re: Popularity of Superhero Groups in a Shared Universe

 

Justice League Avengers?

 

I forgot to mention the Fantastic Four. Popular in the Media, seen as Celebrities by other heroes.

 

Doom Patrol like the X-Men. Covert operations.

 

Does anyone think it's strange that the X-Men members are hunted and hated by the public but the Avengers and the Fantastic Four are popular?

 

I think Professor X unconsciously makes people hate and fear mutants.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Popularity of Superhero Groups in a Shared Universe

 

Job security!

[Cassandra]

Re: Popularity of Superhero Groups in a Shared Universe

 

There would be rivalries between heroes.

 

Aquaman and Sub-Mariner would come to blows many times over Atlantis.

 

Thor and Wonder Woman would argue over who's Pantheon were the actual Gods.

 

Quicksilver would challenge Flash to a race to see who is fastest.

 

 

This brings up an interesting problem.

 

Marvel Superheroes have a tendency to be grounded in reality. Quicksilver is listed as being able to run hundreds of miles an hour.

 

DC Superheroes tend to be much more powerful. Flash can run thousands of miles and hour and run over oceans and up buildings.

 

How would the Marvels react to that?

[Clonus]

Re: Popularity of Superhero Groups in a Shared Universe

 

Justice League Avengers?

 

I forgot to mention the Fantastic Four. Popular in the Media, seen as Celebrities by other heroes.

 

Doom Patrol like the X-Men. Covert operations.

 

Does anyone think it's strange that the X-Men members are hunted and hated by the public but the Avengers and the Fantastic Four are popular?

 

.

 

1. The Avengers and the Fantastic Four have done a lot more actual world saving than the X-Men, and the saving they do gets a lot more publicity.

 

2. The X-Men are "racially" exclusive. Which do you think would be more popular with white people, a superhero team named the Rainbow Coalition, or the Black Powers Alliance?

 

3. The front man of the Fantastic Four is the world's greatest genius. Even the crumbs that fall off his table have been key to the technological advances of the last 20 years in his world. The front man of the Avengers is a flagsuit of unimpeachable integrity who used to punch out Hitler.

[Greywind]

Re: Popularity of Superhero Groups in a Shared Universe

 

It was pointed out in JLA/Avengers that the DC heroes share a popularity among the masses that the Marvel heroes don't.

[csyphrett]

Re: Popularity of Superhero Groups in a Shared Universe

 

"They have a museum for speedsters."

CES

[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: Popularity of Superhero Groups in a Shared Universe

 

...

Doom Patrol like the X-Men. Covert operations.

 

Does anyone think it's strange that the X-Men members are hunted and hated by the public but the Avengers and the Fantastic Four are popular?

 

I think Professor X unconsciously makes people hate and fear mutants.

 

 

DOSPA Superpower-Related Threats Notice 2012/17B: The Possibility of a Sub Rosa MLF Splinter Group, designated "The X-Men."

(Security Distribution: Restricted A2)

 

It has been observed that since approximately 1939, a fluctuating but significant number of humans have been born with the "X" geneset, giving them superpowers normally manifesting at puberty. These individuals have been cladistically defined by phylogeneticists as members of a distinct species in Genus Homo, Homo Sapiens Superior. Readers with DOSPA clearance A4 or higher are referred to Notice 1972/5, Rev2011/2: "A Preliminary Estimate of the Security Threat from Homo Superior," and any future revisions of this document.

 

Beginning with their intervention during the Cuban Missile Crisis (See DoD 19-1961; C18/31DoD "Documentary History of the Cuban Confrontation of 16--28 October 1961"), US Government authorities have repeatedly clashed with a terrorist group rooted in the Homo Superior community usually known as the Mutant Liberation Front and led by Erik Lensherr, designate "Magneto." Although Lensherr has sometimes, presumably ironically, designates the group as the "Brotherhood of Evil Mutants."

 

In the climactic confrontation with the MLF at a missile base in southern Florida on 28 October 1961, several unidentified superhumans engaged the MLF strike group under the direct leadership of Magneto, defeating it. Several individual members of this group have been imaged, often acting in Homo Superior-related contexts. It has equally often been claimed that the MLF has been opposed from within that community by a sub-rosa organisation sometimes designated as the "X-Men."

 

It appears that, in fact, the X-Men did exist at one point, and may have cooperated directly with the Central Intelligence Agency in the 1960s. Unfortunately, due to what seems to have been an illegal purge of CIA records ahead of the passing of the Church Amendment in 1975, this cannot be demonstrated. Veterans can only report that the X-Men were claimed to have been represented by a young academic and Korean War veteran known to them as "Professor X." This, indeed, is why the group was originally designated "the X-Men."

 

The period should be taken into account in assessing the gender-exclusive names selected for the well-known MLF and presumptive X-Men.

 

Claims about the existence of the X-Men, at least in the 1960s, should be presumed to have some merit. They are sometimes disseminated from within the Avengers organisation by individuals, who, while declining to go on record, have a high confidence level with the Department. Indeed, it has been suggested that at least one, and probably more, members of the Avengers have been previously members of "the X-Men," although this cannot be definitively proven without more physical evidence than has been made available to Department scientists. See Appendix 1 (Clearance A0) for further details.

 

Besides these individuals, in the course of the 1960s and 1970s, surveillance dossiers were compiled of several superhumans originally identified in the October 1961 confrontation. These include an individual with wings, another individual using ice armour, a striking red-headed telekinetic, and an Omega-class energy projector, although this list should not be taken to be exhaustive, but rather only notes those sufficiently visually distinctive as to be readily identified.

 

Given the physical stresses of active superheroing, it should not be surprising that the incidence of photographs of these individuals tail off in the late 1970s. Proof of continuity within the presumptive "X-Men" organisation between the group identified in 1961 and various clandestine groups of superpowered individuals observed in action today is still to be obtained.

 

There is, however, one promising lead. The red-head mentalist, the author of this report stresses, is not defined as "distinctive" on the basis of appearance. Rather, both red hair and psionic powers are known to have a strong hereditary component, and individuals meeting both descriptive characteristics have been noted in action with possible "X-Men" groups in the early 1990s and in the current, 2012 timeframe. DOSPA's confidential source within the Avengers has at one point asserted that these are Rachel and Hope, two of the children and grandchildren of "Jean," and "Scott," the psionicist and Omega-class energy projector noted above.

 

Although it should be noted that the source has also suggested far-fetched connections involving evil twins, alternate timelines, time travel, cloning, and, sometimes, all four.

 

Taking the very tentative evidence together, DOSPA has reason to believe that a small group of very powerful mutants has been active in the United States for over fifty years. It has long been conjectured that the group employs some kind of deep cover to conceal its identities. The one most frequently proposed, on the basis of the "Professor X" title, is a small liberal arts college. (See Appendix 2 (Clearance A2), for a list of the most likely candidates and ongoing surveillance efforts.) It has, however, been suggested that this is a misdirect. Other possible classes of institutions to be considered include churches, residential care facilities, athletic clubs, private high schools, community colleges, and trade schools.

 

A consultant, using geographic frequency distribution algorithms, has suggested that this institution is located somewhere within extended commuting range of New York City. Unfortunately, this includes some of the most heavily populated parts of the states of New York, Connecticut and New Jersey, and the conjecture has not helped law enforcement as much as might be hoped.

 

DOSPA's investigation into the existence and activities of the alleged "X-Men" remains open and ongoing.

[massey]

Re: Popularity of Superhero Groups in a Shared Universe

 

I don't think Thor and Wonder Woman would have trouble with each other. Thor and Hercules get along okay. As far as the power scale goes, in a shared universe Marvel heroes aren't going to identify themselves as such. It won't be "those guys on those other teams are more powerful". It would be "boy, the Flash is a lot faster than me".

 

Despite the fact that the JLA has "America" in its team name, I think at least the modern incarnation will be fairly internationally popular. The Avengers do seem to be much more US-centric, possibly due to the presence of Captain America and the billionaire arms dealer. In that world, things like the F-22 are probably made by Stark. The signature weapons of the US military are made by his company.

[esampson]

Re: Popularity of Superhero Groups in a Shared Universe

 

Nah. Tony Stark has been out of arms manufacturing for decades in the comics (with Marvel's sliding time scale it is obviously less then that but he stopped shortly after becoming Iron Man). I mean he is completely out of manufacturing weapon. As in doesn't even manufacture them for SHIELD. As in became Secretary of Defense at one point so that the military couldn't have other people produce weaponry using patents he had lost the rights to (although he did start work on some non-lethal weapons at that time and in more recent years has produced some Iron Man knockoff suits for SHIELD but they were without weapons, I believe).

[Greywind]

Re: Popularity of Superhero Groups in a Shared Universe

 

At a point where Stark and SHIELD were the only stockholders of SI, Fury tried to strongarm Stark into going back to making weapons.

[esampson]

Re: Popularity of Superhero Groups in a Shared Universe

 

Yes. And he failed.

[Greywind]

Re: Popularity of Superhero Groups in a Shared Universe

 

Only because what he wanted Stark to build were patents privately held by Stark. Fury got his weapons. Stark got his company back. At least until Stane stepped in.

[Cassandra]

Re: Popularity of Superhero Groups in a Shared Universe

 

I've always thought that comic book time runs about 1 year for every 6 years in the real world.

[Greywind]

Re: Popularity of Superhero Groups in a Shared Universe

 

Marvel was closer to 5.

[csyphrett]

Re: Popularity of Superhero Groups in a Shared Universe

 

Depends on the writer/staff. I have heard it asserted that any modern comics take place ten years after the origin story which gets moved up.

CES

[esampson]

Re: Popularity of Superhero Groups in a Shared Universe

 

Current Marvel timeline I believe is around 13 years since the Fantastic Four first went into space (which is sort of their main point of reference). In the mid-eighties I believe it was 7 years, although a lot of people noticed that didn't jibe with certain events. In the mid-nineties they bumped it up to 10.

[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: Popularity of Superhero Groups in a Shared Universe

 

I've always thought that comic book time runs about 1 year for every 6 years in the real world.

 

It's a fix for Marvel Comics, in spite of being tissue thin. On the one hand, we're almost sixty years into the Marvel Age. That's a long time passing, and there's a lot more to be fixed in Fantastic Four # 1 then just clunky story. Any creator who uses that material ends up doing soft reboots and retcons, in spite of the fact that no-one wants them.

 

In theory we want our story to advance, even if at this point it's Franklin's children running around saving the world. The problem is that apparently this story that we theoretically want doesn't actually work in serial comics. Look at the disasters that were the Fantastic Force and the introduction of Valeria. (Does anyone not like Valeria Richards? And yet the things that they keep doing to her. I think some people just react badly to reminders of the passage of time.)

 

So we need the original Fantastic Four in 1961 and 2012. That means that 1961 must have happened about ten years ago or so.

 

Personally, I say just write stories about the FF set in the 60s, and about Franklin's children set now. I know that they won't sell, but I'll be happy.

[Cassandra]

Re: Popularity of Superhero Groups in a Shared Universe

 

Perhaps the Sensational She Hulk had it right.

 

Louise Grant Mason, the former Blonde Phantom explained to Jennifer that time passes only when your comic book has been cancelled.

[Cassandra]

Re: Popularity of Superhero Groups in a Shared Universe

 

Personally I just give some of my older characters a point of Longevity and they are 90 year old looking like their in their late 30s.

[csyphrett]

Re: Popularity of Superhero Groups in a Shared Universe

 

I think Valiant was the only one to use real time as they published. So every adventure was a month apart.

 

Kurt Busiek uses real time with the caveat he can use any period in Astro City's timeline to write stories

CES