San Angelo - Your input

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Gold Rush Games

Don't take the comment personally. I don't believe that's what Rob was trying to convey.

 

 

Really? Now that's something I can honestly say I've not heard before.

 

Can you be a little more specific or better yet, provide some examples?

I wasn't taking the comment personally. I just wanted to point out that I understand what you guys are thinking. I just think you are stuck in "gamerese" which is what concerns me with Hero supplements as well. There is, IMO, too much focus on mechanics and "balance" and not enough on entertainment.

 

When I say you are too conscious of the game I mean in terms of your strategy. Limiting yourself to the archetypes in the Champions and fitting the characters from tab A into slot B. It feels forced and underdeveloped, unlike your city. The thing is I don't play City Hero. I play Champions or Super Hero.

 

Examples and a Comparison

 

Justice Foundation

 

Has the TurboJet and a small headquarters downtown.

 

Azteca is an ex-gang member who is watched by his old gang members who we learn are led by a Jesus Quintana, typical gang leader with a three sentence description. He is also hunted by Photon and Bloodsport. Why? Because Bloodsport likes to fight and Photon wants revenge on any Justice Foundation member.

 

Cavalier is a soldier in power armor who is keeping this a secret from his teammates. Why did he get the suit? His brainwaves are the best match. He is hunted by Photon because photon hunts every Justice Foundation member.

 

Corona was given flame powers from a meteorite. She is hunted by Photon and someone called Phosphorous which may be explained somewhere.

 

Lotus is the daughter of a leader of a tong and is super-strong for some unexplained reason. She tries to thwart her father without hurting him or the rest of her family and is hunted by the tongs as well as Photon.

 

Savant is a scientist who gained his mental powers when his old mentor had a fatal lab accident. He is hunted by Photon and Dementia which may be explained somewhere.

 

Freedom City’s Freedom League

 

Operates out of Freedom Hall

 

Captain Thunder gained his brick and electrical powers as a test pilot when a mysterious storm was created by Stratos, a disgruntled genius who was hoping to disrupt military R & D. Lady Lightning is a foe who gained her powers as a result of proximity to a fight between Captain Thunder and Dr. Stratos. Dr. Stratos also created Volt, living electrical energy being, as the perfect weapon against Captain Thunder. The Hellqueen is also a foe of Captain Thunder who has attempted to seduce him in the past and threatened her old friend who turned out to be his wife.

 

There are 6 more members of the Freedom League with similar detail.

 

The team itself is hunted by the Crime League, a band of their arch-enemies, as well as the Mastermind, Omega (an extradimensional conqueror with a twist), the Power Core (armored villains equipped by the Foundry), Quirk (an impish villain), the mysterious organization known as SHADOW, and their evil duplicates – the Tyranny Syndicate.

 

Analysis

 

What is it I like so much about the heroes in Freedom City in comparison to the Justice Foundation? The Freedom League tells a lot of stories in its description but more importantly, they have the genuine feel of a comic book story. Captain Thunder was an adventuresome man who gained his powers as a result of the nefarious plans of his archrival. Many of his future foes would be the product of his foe or their conflicts. That is classic comic book. Look at Spidey and consider the Scorpion, the Lizard, the Green Goblin, Doc Octopus - all those villains who were created or associated in some special way with Spidey.

 

Most of the Justice Foundation have no such concrete connection to their villains to inspire an added sense of tension and drama. Origins are bland and uninspiring in comparison.

 

Now if I were to have the Freedom League disappear in Freedom City I could instantly plug in their rogue's gallery and have a sense of style and panache that I feel is lacking in the descriptions and backgrounds of San Angelo's supers.

 

I think presenting characters like the Justice Foundation as examples of San Angelo characters sets the stylistic bar too low. It's not a challenge or an inspiration to the players to step up to make cool characters. It is more of a plea for mediocrity.

 

You have a wonderful approach to city campaigns in this book and I am happy I borrowed it from my friend, who will want it back soon I'm sure, but the approach to a superhero campaign and establishing supers - to not have them "challenge" the players' creations makes them feel generic and unimportant to the point of disinterest in this reader at the very least.

 

I'm sure that Freedom City lacks some of the polish San Angelo when you consider its technical merits but Freedom City is selling FUN! and San Angelo is selling fun. I hope this has been helpful. You have a wonderful product. It could be so much better for some of us though if you took a more interesting approach to the characters in the main book and emphasize story as much as what role in a story the character could play.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: San Angelo - Your input

 

Originally posted by RPMiller

We appreciate that very much!

We'll see what we can do about SAS stats in future products. The thing that we have to be concerned with though is *too* many. I know that seems strange, but consider the amount of extra printing and materials that has to go into it and that in turn increases the cost. Perhaps just some conversion notes would be better?

 

Oh understand that. When I heard three system stats I went for SAS, MnM & Hero, thinking of the three big Supergames forgetting that Goldrush has a "house" system.

 

Just an excuse to push Reality storm. Hey buy this San Angelo book - best super hero setting around, and here buy this book to convert the characters into your game.

[Gold Rush Games]

Another reason we opted not to include SAS stats was a financial one. A SAS license would have cost more money, as would hiring someone to do the write-ups/conversions.

 

Just FYI.

[Storn]

Agent X, that was a well-said, constructive critique of the San Angelo superteam compared to Freedom City.

 

For what it is worth, I like the Justice Foundation quite a bit, used Savant as a major character... but I agree with you... there is a wonderful vibe in Freedom City.

 

But having said that, I know that my co-GM really likes the 4th ED Classic Enemies format the best. He wants 1 paragraph and the stats... he will provide the backstory, the major components of personality. He doesn't like the current 5th ed format of character write-ups that go on for paragraphs and paragraphs. Especiallly when they go carry over onto another page. Dr. Destroyer and Mechanon deserve 2 page, facing, layouts... most characters, in his opinion, should have 1 page.

 

My point is that everyone is different in what they want. I feel for the writers and editors of this business, trying to figure out what the majority are leaning towards... no easy task.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Agent X

I just think you are stuck in "gamerese" which is what concerns me with Hero supplements as well. There is, IMO, too much focus on mechanics and "balance" and not enough on entertainment.

Wow! That is such a true statement! But I would take it one step farther and state that even the players are too stuck on mechanics and balance.

 

San Angelo is more of a living breathing city than Millennium City is, in some respects, because there are more small details within it. But I do agree that it lacks a feeling of completeness. I think that SA should have a closed universe feel to it like Astro City does. Villains should be made there by association, or they gravitate there for a player/group reason. The villains in Freedom City fit in FC. They are part of the enviroment, they are not just random thugs of the week. SA should have the same feel, as should MC, but I understand that Hero's villains are designed to be more open-ended and usable for anyone's campaign. Their references to MC are really more in passing than in conviction.

 

San Angelo has a chance to step outside of the standard Champions Universe, and I think it should do so by coming up with interesting and unique heroes and villains. Not just by making cookie cutter characters with standard power constructions and designs. If you want my money you need to show me something unique that I am not getting from my 3 Hero Games books every 2 months. I have no real reason to buy the same things from GRG that I am already getting from DOJ.

[RPMiller]

Something that should be considered in everyone's analysis is that San Angelo was not created with just one city of supers in mind. Read through the book more carefully and you will see references to the rest of the world. There are other books in the line, that were not released for various reasons, that span the globe.

Really, San Angelo is just the beginning to a whole wide world of supers.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by RPMiller

Something that should be considered in everyone's analysis is that San Angelo was not created with just one city of supers in mind. Read through the book more carefully and you will see references to the rest of the world. There are other books in the line, that were not released for various reasons, that span the globe.

Really, San Angelo is just the beginning to a whole wide world of supers.

I think we all understand that it is a universe concept, but I think we are saying that each city should be somewhat self contained. Metropolis exists with Gotham, but the two seldom cross.

[Storn]

>>Read through the book more carefully and you will see references to the rest of the world<<

 

I don't want to be mean here, please take my comments as constructive... but if that is part of SA's marketing, one shouldn't have to read carefully... it should be obvious at first glance.

 

Not easy task... I know... but that is what seperates the Great from the Good.

 

As a GM, I don't read every word of these books... sorry folks, but I don't. Granted, I'm a visual person, so I do chew up great amount of information when visually pleasing and informative. But I think that there are many out there who skim for the chewy bits. The chewy bits need to LEAP out. I think this is something that Green Ronin does really, really well with M&M.

 

If the chewy bits are captivating enough... then I'll (and some other folks) will sit down and read the whole chapter. So... if San Angelo is supposed to be part of wider world, then that should be in the quotes, the sidebars, the artwork etc.. not buried in the text somewhere.

 

I know that it wasn't in the artwork list, because I did a lot of the art. Every illo I got was San Angelo specific. How do you do that in an illo? Off the top of my head.... a super in a recognizable city reading a newspaper article about an event in San Angelo, say the super, Croix du Guerre, sitting in a park, with the Eiffel tower behind him reading about the justice foundation. Cliche'd but works. Right there with one illo I just said "San Angelo is so important in the super community that a french superhero is reading about it."

 

Now, I'm not saying that "wider world" *should* be in the sidebars... but if you think that is an important selling point... don't bury it. That goes for any of the elements that you are thinking about presenting...I'm using this particular element as an example.

[Storn]

Originally posted by Monolith

I think we all understand that it is a universe concept, but I think we are saying that each city should be somewhat self contained. Metropolis exists with Gotham, but the two seldom cross.

 

That is such a bullpucky comic book convention...

 

No city is self contained in the modern age. To ignore air travel, internet, personal mobility; reinforces 40 years of old and tired comic storylines.

 

A supers are more mobile than most. Whether by money, by power...they tend to get around. And if you been paying attention, Gotham and Metropolis in DC Comics have been much closer tied together thru their proxies Bruce and Clark.

 

So to ignore the possiblities of good storylines because each city has to be self contained and in its own little bottle is just eliminating a richness to the product. Why do that? Just by being San Angelo and suburbs is plenty of focus... wny not mention other cities, other heroes, other villians who *might* come to town one day.... or the PCs *might* go there?

 

No one is saying devote 5 chapters to the outside world, just a few mentions... to integrate and to paint with broad strokes the possible.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by RPMiller

Something that should be considered in everyone's analysis is that San Angelo was not created with just one city of supers in mind. Read through the book more carefully and you will see references to the rest of the world. There are other books in the line, that were not released for various reasons, that span the globe.

Really, San Angelo is just the beginning to a whole wide world of supers.

What does this have to do with the choices you make in character design?

 

What I'm suggesting is that you liven it up a bit and take a fresh look at the philosophy of what kind of characters to present. The Freedom League, Atom Family, and (to a lesser extent) the Next Gen are much more thought provoking than the Justice Foundation. Honestly, I could have worked up a generic super-team with more thought than the Justice Foundation without much effort.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Storn

Agent X, that was a well-said, constructive critique of the San Angelo superteam compared to Freedom City.

 

For what it is worth, I like the Justice Foundation quite a bit, used Savant as a major character... but I agree with you... there is a wonderful vibe in Freedom City.

 

But having said that, I know that my co-GM really likes the 4th ED Classic Enemies format the best. He wants 1 paragraph and the stats... he will provide the backstory, the major components of personality. He doesn't like the current 5th ed format of character write-ups that go on for paragraphs and paragraphs. Especiallly when they go carry over onto another page. Dr. Destroyer and Mechanon deserve 2 page, facing, layouts... most characters, in his opinion, should have 1 page.

 

My point is that everyone is different in what they want. I feel for the writers and editors of this business, trying to figure out what the majority are leaning towards... no easy task.

I love the 4th Edition Classic Enemies as well and I prefer its format to 5th Edition as well as the aesthetics of many of the 4th Edition versions. Classic Enemies is a villain book though. It's not a campaign setting.

 

In a campaign setting I expect to see some examples of how characters interact in the campaign, not merely hints or suggestions. The Justice Foundation did not express much of that nor did it spark my imagination.

 

As for concerns that some want a generic setting. I wonder what that means. They could just grab a city tourist guide and order a map at the bookstore. In fact, I have a city guidebook for most of the major cities in the United States an did just that. If I buy a campaign setting revolving around a city for a superhero campaign I want the city to be Super. I want to see how the city has been altered by the supers and not simply in a dry, sociological way. I want the characters in the book to be colorful and thoughtfully built with enough detail to imagine the stories that could be told with them. And when I read them I want to be snapped out of thinking of them as an example of an archetype because of the depth of the character concept.

 

How could the Justice Foundation be made better?

Give some details about what really goes on in the Justice Foundation. What is the background of the founders of the Justice Foundation? Who are their enemies? This suggests some rivals for the team as a whole.

Real superhero motivations for every member would be good. An explanation for how they got their powers would be good. An adventurous or flashy origin is always a good thing.

An tailor-made archrival or archrivals is a very good thing.

 

SELL ME THE BOOK BY SHOWING ME YOU HAVE PRIDE AND ENTHUSIASM FOR EVERY ASPECT INCLUDING THE NPC HEROES AND VILLAINS. You have to sell me the campaign setting before I buy supplements so it won't do to have really well thought out villains or heroes in future books.

 

I suspect the only reason that my friend so quickly volunteered to lend the book to me was that he found little use from it. He buys books mainly for the characters or for plot devices, adventure hooks and I doubt the character approach in San Angelo did anything for him.

 

It's not that great a mystery why people on these boards rave about Strike Force and Freedom City as much as they do. Think about what those books have as campaign settings that most lack: a sense of story.

[Gold Rush Games]

Originally posted by Agent X

I suspect the only reason that my friend so quickly volunteered to lend the book to me was that he found little use from it. ...I doubt the character approach in San Angelo did anything for him.

Some people are very quick to point out negatives, even reaching to the point of stating assumed negatives. I truly appreciate each person taking the time to post comments on this thread. But developers have feelings, too, you know.

 

What would help us more, I think, instead of telling us what you think your friend dislikes about the old book is to tell us what you would see as a positive in the 2nd Ed. book.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Gold Rush Games

What would help us more, I think, instead of telling us what you think your friend dislikes about the old book is to tell us what you would see as a positive in the 2nd Ed. book.

I think he is saying that a positive for him would be a book which has the heroes and villains truly interacting with the enviroment and each other, not just being names on a list. In the "City of Heroes" the heroes should be essential to the enviroment, not just names of people on teams. Telling us how Corona operates within San Angelo, and why she is important to the city, is important; not just because she is a member of the JF, but because she is one of the few heroes in the City of Heroes. It's also important to know why Phosphorous is hunting her, what the connection and the whys are.

[Vondy]

I think agent x makes a good point about example characters helping set the tone and style of the setting, as well as providing back-story that brings things to life. They definately need to be there.

 

On the other hand:

 

I don't think having a high-profile super team native to the city, or central to the story, is necessary, or desireable. I as a GM, whenever I see such teams, edit them out or move them to another locale so the pcs won't be second-stringers, or filling an uneeded niche.

 

So I would heartily like to see some character write ups (maybe solo heroes, a group fo heroes who band together from time to time, or even a historical group no longer in place), but not a team.

 

Or, if there is a team, an incomplete team, or a "justice society" sort of deal, where the PCs can fill the open slots, or even comprise the "active team," while the NPCs presented can be used as reservists, to fill open slots for smallish gaming groups, or even be retirees.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Storn

That is such a bullpucky comic book convention...

 

No city is self contained in the modern age. To ignore air travel, internet, personal mobility; reinforces 40 years of old and tired comic storylines.

I never said there should not be mentions of other areas, but in an enviroment as richly detailed as San Angelo is the city itself should be the central character. Yes, we might just love to know what is going on in Century City, but maybe that information should be in the New Century City book. The book is entitled San Angelo, not The Flux Universe.

 

Comic book cities take on a life of their own. Metropolis does it, Gotham City does it, and Astro City (the basis for San Angelo) does it. What makes SA unique is its richness. When you are reading Astro City you want to know about the locals and people, you do not care what is going on in Metro City.

 

IMO, San Angelo should be about what the players will love and want to know about playing in that city. No a source book for what is going on in New Century City.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Gold Rush Games

Some people are very quick to point out negatives, even reaching to the point of stating assumed negatives. I truly appreciate each person taking the time to post comments on this thread. But developers have feelings, too, you know.

 

What would help us more, I think, instead of telling us what you think your friend dislikes about the old book is to tell us what you would see as a positive in the 2nd Ed. book.

I'm done with this. I told you what I thought you needed to do to improve the 2nd edition. I thought I was fairly gentle. Smileys or no, You are being dismissive. My comment about my friend's dislikes was hardly the meat of my remarks. I pointed out what I thought would be a positive for the 2nd edition; characters that have a stronger comic book feel with richer detail and a rogues' gallery. This is obviously a poor format for you to gather data as you take things too personally. Perhaps you should try using polling data produced by a professional service.

 

I'm a bit put off. Constructive criticism was asked for and given. If you feel the need to shoot down what little criticism is given in this thread which seems to be your reaction perhaps you feel you have all the answers. This may have something to do with the few responses you have received.

[Gold Rush Games]

Originally posted by Monolith

I think he is saying...

And what are your thoughts about what you'd like to see in SACoH2E?

 

In the "City of Heroes" the heroes should be essential to the enviroment, not just names of people on teams.

Yes, I agree. However, how do we downplay the importance of the NPC heroes in a way that supports our approach that the PCs are the most important heroes in the city? The more background and detail and so forth that we provide for the NPC heroes, the less credibility I would think we'd maintain when we claim "but they're not as important as your characters." See what I mean?

 

I do understand your point. The hard part is striking the balance.

[Gold Rush Games]

Originally posted by Agent X

I told you what I thought you needed to do to improve the 2nd edition.

Yes, and I thank you again for your comments.

 

I thought I was fairly gentle. Smileys or no, You are being dismissive. My comment about my friend's dislikes was hardly the meat of my remarks.

I don't claim that your comments were worded poorly or rudely. I'm just not interested in supposition, per se. It feels like unnecessary bashing and criticism and it's a bit distracting to me.

 

This is obviously a poor format for you to gather data as you take things too personally.

Too personally? Nah.

 

I am looking for constructive criticism and honest input from the fans. But I prefer direct input.

 

Telling me why you think your friend dislikes or has no use for a book, when you don't even know that to be the case, smacks of negativism, IMO.

 

I don't take it personally. It just makes me think that perhaps you are more inclined to support a negative perception than you are in expressing constructive suggestions for SACoH2E. I don't care what someone "thinks their friend thinks." I want to know what you think. That's all I'm saying.

 

I'm a bit put off. Constructive criticism was asked for and given.

And I appreciate it.

 

If you feel the need to shoot down what little criticism is given in this thread which seems to be your reaction perhaps you feel you have all the answers.

Criticism I can take. Making stuff up to pad a message and try to impress upon me how crappy our book is does nothing to endear me to one's comments. Like I said, I care what you have to say. I don't really care what you think your friend thinks. If your friend would like to post his views, I'll gladly read them. Otherwise it's not even anecdotal; it's supposition. ::shrug::

 

This may have something to do with the few responses you have received.

Yeah, and I have bad breath. Whew! Glad that's out of the way.

 

Relax. I'm not your enemy. I want your opinion. That's why I asked.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Gold Rush Games

And what are you're thoughts about what you'd like to see in SACoH2E?

What I would like to see is a richly detailed city (which SA already is). I would also like to see the city have a dozen or so independent protectors but no established superhero team. That way when the players do establish a team it does become a big deal; they get to be the very first in this era.

 

As to the heroes, I would like to see one who is a living legend (like Supers or Cap); someone the people think of as immortal and essential to the city, but it really turns out that the character is really a father/son combination (like the Phantom) who have just been trading places for the last 50 years or so. That way you get an established historical figure in the game, without all the baggage that can go with it and some interesting plot potential for the PC characters.

 

Mostly I would like to see the independent heroes as being unique and not cookie cutter. Use unsual power combinations and constructions. Use independent heroes which make us think in terms of the genre not the game.

 

I would also be interesting if the JF were part of the city's past, possibly the group disbanded in the late 80s, but there is history to them. That way you have a three-tier structure with the Liberty Corp, then Justice Foundation, then the PC team. The players might even be able to get backed by one of these retired JFers, and in turn get to reestablish a new JF in the old base, which has been a city landmark and museum for the last 20 years. You see, the players then become part of the history of the city, not just as something from the outside.

 

San Angelo is all about detail, and the book should find ways to make players part of the detail and history. That's what I would find interesting; far more interesting than just seeing a dozen different heroes and villains who have no real tie to the city.

[SuperPheemy]

I'll take another shot. But it's mostly a ramble.

 

If it's established that 2nd ed is aged six or so years after the events of 1st ed, you can write in an exodus/ promotion/ retirement of some of the older heroes (with an appropriate caveat for players wishing to bring their established characters along into the 2nd ed continuity).

 

This allows for a rich, continuous history while still allowing for a group of new superheroes to take the spotlight. I lean towards a "promotion" angle myself. That the former superteam went national, or international and simply doesn't have the time or resources to hang around SA anymore. Maybe they made the mistake of signing on with the government, thus being at the mercy of orders.

 

What I see with a campaign like SA is a great potential for inter-team rivalries. Because you as authors get to write the history, the characters you develop in that history become by default the older, more established characters in the setting. Which would make the player characters the younger, newer characters and thus you have a generational rivalry built in.

 

This doesn't necessarily mean that the old NPC team is the spotlight team by a long shot. If they've gone on to bigger and better things, then they're not paying attention to SA, which will engender an attitude that the old team "sold out", or abandoned their home (especially when old enemies start taking out their revenge on SA).

 

Also, an older team could be designed as being weaker on the whole (which is easily accomplished with the baseline Champs total being increased by 100 points between 4th and 5th editions). A hero who was considered the "Strongest man alive" six years ago, might not be any weaker today, but may notice that the rookie hero is stronger, and more invulnerable.

 

Ultimately, what I see for the most part in the posts on this thread is that the SA fans appreciate the level of detail 1st ed had, and would like that level of detail extended to the NPCs as well. Even moreso. That way the GMs get a better handle on the nature of the characters, and can help the players make richer characters for the spotlight.

[SuperPheemy]

Or I could have just written "Yeah, what Monolith said". I think I need to buy another point or two of DEX with regards to posting speed....

[Monolith]

Originally posted by SuperPheemy

Or I could have just written "Yeah, what Monolith said". I think I need to buy another point or two of DEX with regards to posting speed....

Yes, but your was much better written than mine. Better to have the extra few points in Oratory than in DEX.

[Pattern Ghost]

Originally posted by Gold Rush Games

Some people are very quick to point out negatives, even reaching to the point of stating assumed negatives. I truly appreciate each person taking the time to post comments on this thread. But developers have feelings, too, you know.

 

What would help us more, I think, instead of telling us what you think your friend dislikes about the old book is to tell us what you would see as a positive in the 2nd Ed. book.

 

This is bull. You were given good input. If you don't want to look at valid criticism, don't publish. It's that simple. If it's in print, it's up for criticism, whether you have feelings or not.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Gold Rush Games

Yes, and I thank you again for your comments.

 

 

I don't claim that your comments were worded poorly or rudely. I'm just not interested in supposition, per se. It feels like unnecessary bashing and criticism and it's a bit distracting to me.

 

 

Too personally? Nah.

 

I am looking for constructive criticism and honest input from the fans. But I prefer direct input.

 

Telling me why you think your friend dislikes or has no use for a book, when you don't even know that to be the case, smacks of negativism, IMO.

 

I don't take it personally. It just makes me think that perhaps you are more inclined to support a negative perception than you are in expressing constructive suggestions for SACoH2E. I don't care what someone "thinks their friend thinks." I want to know what you think. That's all I'm saying.

 

 

And I appreciate it.

 

 

Criticism I can take. Making stuff up to pad a message and try to impress upon me how crappy our book is does nothing to endear me to one's comments. Like I said, I care what you have to say. I don't really care what you think your friend thinks. If your friend would like to post his views, I'll gladly read them. Otherwise it's not even anecdotal; it's supposition. ::shrug::

 

 

Yeah, and I have bad breath. Whew! Glad that's out of the way.

 

Relax. I'm not your enemy. I want your opinion. That's why I asked.

I've asked my friend I've known for and gamed with for over a decade what he thought of San Angelo but I'll let him speak for himself. He goes by the Superskrull since you don't like supposition or anecdotes.

 

As to unnecessary criticism, bashing, negativism, "making stuff up to pad a post," and "trying to impress upon me how crappy our book is," wow! Are you sure you're not being thin skinned about this?

 

I said that you have a city that is richly detailed. I don't really have any suggestions on how to improve that. I don't think it needs improvement except maybe on format and that's nit-picking. I did essentially say your approach to supers leaves me cold. I did admit I could whip up a more interesting team fairly easily but then I think you could to. I asked you to reconsider your approach to how to treat npc supers in your book and several others seem to agree with the basic suggestions I made if not the "disappearing icons idea". You responded by explaining that you don't want the NPC supers to "overshadow" the PCs and I think you definitely didn't have to worry about that in the 1st Edition. I agree with the others that there are other methods of preventing the NPCs from overshadowing the players without publishing characters that are this sparse and under-developed in detail. My constructive criticism involves less than 15% of the content in your book so I'm not really sure how you get the idea that I think it's crappy. Frankly, I thought it was pretty cool and a possible buy especially with that sweet deal on your site. However, I think your attitude is crappy. I'm a potential customer who you asked to give constructive criticism. If you disagree with my constructive criticism there are more polite ways to move on than to explain to me that my criticism is not constructive or that I'm being "negative." Much criticism is negative so I find this highly unfair. I never expected you to agree with anything I said. I did expect a less condescending, less dismissive, less passive/aggressive post from a professional. This is your business after all, you need to be able to remove your feelings from a topic when you ask for constructive criticism.

 

Frankly, I think you just lost at least one customer.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Pattern Ghost

This is bull. You were given good input. If you don't want to look at valid criticism, don't publish. It's that simple. If it's in print, it's up for criticism, whether you have feelings or not.

Thanks Pattern Ghost. I take back all those things I said about you.