"Must cross intervening space"

[acide_bob]

We had a kind of a hot argument over this limitation for Teleport today.

As the Gamemaster I ruled it meant that the character need to be physically able to reach the place where he is teleporting. So someone with this limitation wouldn't be able to jsut teleport in the air without any structure around to help him. Like say over the ocean.

One of my player think that he means that he jsut need a clear field to use his teleport. So he could teleport in a straight line over his head unless there was some kind of structure/barrier over his head to keep him from doing it.

 

so I was wondering how people were dealing with that cause I found my logic sound. But ehn when I read the limitation, it is so vague taht his interpretation could make sense also.

 

thank you.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: "Must cross intervening space"

 

I go with 'you personally must be able to reach that location normally'. If you want to teleport into the middle of the air, you should have Flight as well; the middle of the Ocean, some swimming. IMO, 'Teleport, Must Cross Intervening Space' is used when the character has the ability to accelerate and move so fast, it appears they just vanished from A and appeared at Z - maybe with a streak through all the other letters.

 

Speedsters, like Quicksilver and the Flash, are prime examples of this. They can't teleport into mid-air, because neither of them have flight, but if they have that 'running on water' thing, they could teleport into the middle of the ocean - so long as it's on the surface.

[Jhaierr]

Re: "Must cross intervening space"

 

The text from 6E1 is:

 

This Limitation represents a form of Teleportation that requires the character to actually pass through the intervening space physically. This can be a problem if barriers or other obstacles prevent the character from moving through that space. Characters cannot use Teleportation with this Limitation to escape from Entangles.

 

In my view, "pass through the intervening space" does not mean "get to normally" -- the description mentions barriers and does not mention support or bridges or such things. I would interpret it to mean that it is just like normal teleport except that there can be no barriers in between.

[griffinman01]

Re: "Must cross intervening space"

 

In my view, "pass through the intervening space" does not mean "get to normally" -- the description mentions barriers and does not mention support or bridges or such things. I would interpret it to mean that it is just like normal teleport except that there can be no barriers in between.

 

This. Must cross intervening space means that your body actually passes through the space between locations but you don't have to actually get there via your movement powers. I assume that, if you're able to run so fast that nobody can see you, you would be able to use your momentum to get to places you normally couldn't. Kind of like how you can run across a large gap since your momentum would allow you reach there even if your feet aren't touching the ground (think like the old Looney Tunes gag of running off the cliff and continuing for a few feet but 100x more effective). If there was a wall there, you'd smack into it, but you could do it.

 

For the whole Flash/Quicksilver thing where you can run on water or up the side of a building, I always used Flight with the "Only when in contact with a surface" (-1/4) limitation. It basically means that you can run over any terrain and in any orientation as long as your feet are touching a solid object.

[Greywind]

Re: "Must cross intervening space"

 

...water isn't a solid.

[psyber624]

Re: "Must cross intervening space"

 

I'd personally allow the base limitation to mean that there cannot be any barriers between the two points and then allow another modifier (something like "Must be able to reach location with normal running) to be applied if the player wanted that to apply as well. Of course I would NOT allow the new modifier if the player had other movement forms (or at least they would not be able to use those forms to determine where they could teleport to. IE if they also had Flight they couldn't use flight as an excuse to teleport into mid air if they took the 2nd limitation on their teleport)).

[griffinman01]

Re: "Must cross intervening space"

 

...water isn't a solid.

 

Right, call that one up to being sick at the moment. All the same, the Limitation is in contact with a surface so as long as you have something tangible to put your feet on (ie surface tension) you can use it. Water is an example of it given in the book. I agree with what psyber said though about the added "must be able to reach it with normal running" as a quick and easy way to cover it.

[gojira]

Re: "Must cross intervening space"

 

so I was wondering how people were dealing with that cause I found my logic sound. But ehn when I read the limitation' date=' it is so vague taht his interpretation could make sense also.[/quote']

 

I'd say it's vague because it depends on the special effect (SFX) of the power. It could go either way.

 

I go with 'you personally must be able to reach that location normally'.

 

This is how I most commonly interpret that Limitation.

 

This. Must cross intervening space means that your body actually passes through the space between locations but you don't have to actually get there via your movement powers.

 

This could be appropriate, depending on SFX. For example, I think one of the Dark Champions powers is to vanish mysteriously when no one is looking, as Batman is want to do. It's Teleport with "Must cross intervening space." The rules for that power state that you can't use it to get to places that are actually impossible, but the players are also allowed to fudge it even if they can't reasonably get to a location. Even if it's impossible for Batman to climb a drain pipe four stories and flip to the roof when no one is looking because his climb rate is too low, he can still do it because it's mysterious and cool and in the spirit of the power.

 

(Note that this is specifically explained in the power description as something that is being fudged, with the implication that normally a player really would have to cross the intervening space using their regular movement powers.)

 

So I'd say it depends on SFX, and the way the GM agreed to interpret the power when it was created. It's not cool to hose a player over and take away his powers after you said he could have them. But if the use of the power was totally unexpected it's also OK to have a mature chat with the player and let them know why you're changing your original interpretation of how their power works.

 

But it's also best to say 'yes' to players as often as possible and to not take their stuff away.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: "Must cross intervening space"

 

This is how I built the ability to move faster than the eye can see for both Superman and Flash.

 

Please note what they have in common and the main difference between the two.

 

From Superman:

...

105 Strange Visitor... with powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men: Variable Power Pool (Kryptonian), 60 base + 60 control cost, Powers Can Be Changed As A Zero-Phase Action (+1), No Skill Roll Required (+1) (150 Active Points); Limited Power [Affects Pool Cost Only] - Kryptonion Powers Only (Speed, Strength, Toughness, Senses, Heat-Vision, etc..) (Real Cost Maximum=30 per slot (45 active without additional slot Limitations. Up to 60 active with additional slot Limitations. With enough additional Limitations (like Concentration, Extra Time, etc...) or Lower Active Point Abilities, 3 or more Slots can be used simultaneously.; -1/2); all slots Unified Power (-1/4), Conditional Power - Not in the presence of Kryptonite or red solar radiation (-1/4)

[Notes: The default example abilities allow 2 Slots to be used Simultaneously. However, the abilities listed are only examples and not intended to be an exclusive list. Other ability constructions within the Kryptonian Powers set could be created and used if approved by the GM.]

 

0 2) Faster...: Teleportation 22m, No Relative Velocity, x2 Increased Mass, x4 Noncombat, Safe Blind Teleport (+1/4) (52 Active Points); Must Pass Through Intervening Space (-1/4) Real Cost: 30 5

 

From Flash:

...

117 Superspeed Tricks: Variable Power Pool (Superspeed), 72 base + 60 control cost, No Skill Roll Required (+1), Powers Can Be Changed As A Zero-Phase Action (+1) (162 Active Points); Custom Modifier (Does not understand true nature of powers) (Superspeed Powers Only - Real Cost Total Maximum=72 (typically 36 per slot) By taking enough additional Limitations (like Increased END or Concentration) 3 or more Slots of up to 60 active point can be used simultaneously.; -3/4); all slots Unified Power (-1/4)

[Notes: This is just an example list of abilities.]

 

0 1) Faster...: Teleportation 23m, No Relative Velocity, Position Shift, x2 Increased Mass, x4 Noncombat, Safe Blind Teleport (+1/4) (60 Active Points); Must Pass Through Intervening Space (-1/4), Limited Power Only In Contact With A Surface (-1/4) Real Cost: 34

[Notes: This represents a form of 'Running' that is faster than the normal eye can see. Character's with Rapid sight @x100 should be able to see his path.] 6

 

Imagine two insects on one side of the inside of a cardboard box. One can fly and one can't. The shortest route from one side of the box to the opposite side is different for each.

 

The "Must Pass Through..." Limitation only addresses obstacles between point A & B. It doesn't address the limitations of any other form of movement.

[Ice9]

Re: "Must cross intervening space"

 

It doesn't include having to get there normally. For instance, it could represent turning into a beam of light.

The thing that was being fudged in the Dark Champions power is the requirement to be able to move there even semi-normally.

[Armitage]

Re: "Must cross intervening space"

 

It doesn't include having to get there normally. For instance, it could represent turning into a beam of light.

The thing that was being fudged in the Dark Champions power is the requirement to be able to move there even semi-normally.

 

That was an additional -1/2 Limitation, Can Only Teleport To Places Character Could Normally Go.

 

The other thing to remember about crossing the intervening space is Constant area effect attacks. No teleporting past a mine field or cloud of poison gas.

[dmjalund]

Re: "Must cross intervening space"

 

Must...

Cross...

Intervening...

Space...

[Hyper-Man]

Re: "Must cross intervening space"

 

Must...

Cross...

Intervening...

Space...

 

If you say so....

[psyber624]

Re: "Must cross intervening space"

 

Here is a copy of Nightwind's MCIS Teleport power from C:NOTW. Basically it's the classic Batman schtick of you turn your back on him for half a second and he disappears.

 

Disappearing Act: Teleportation 9"; Can Only Teleport To Places Character Could Normally Go (-1/2), Must Cross Intervening Space (-1/4), No Noncombat Multiple (-1/4), Only to "Vanish" When No One Is Looking (-1/2), Requires A Stealth Roll (-1/2)

[Rhino]

Re: "Must cross intervening space"

 

Strange ... Doesn't the Only to Places the Character Could Normally Go limitation already encompass the Must Cross Intervening Space limitation?

[bigbywolfe]

Re: "Must cross intervening space"

 

Strange ... Doesn't the Only to Places the Character Could Normally Go limitation already encompass the Must Cross Intervening Space limitation?

Nope. You can have a Teleport that can only go places you could normally reach, yet would not have to cross the space. So you could teleport to the other side of that (unlocked) door or through that window but not 20m straight up into the air.

[griffinman01]

Re: "Must cross intervening space"

 

Nope. You can have a Teleport that can only go places you could normally reach' date=' yet would not have to cross the space. So you could teleport to the other side of that (unlocked) door or through that window but not 20m straight up into the air.[/quote']

 

This. An example would be someone who can turn to putty or something malleable. You could argue that you could pass through certain porous barriers, under doors, through cracks in walls, etc. That wouldn't have to cross the intervening space since you could pass through a lot of obstacles, but you wouldn't be able to reach up into the air or any place that you couldn't physically get to (like a flying location, or across a wide gap).