DC Versus Marvel

[Cassandra]

DC and Marvel are the two most popular comic book companies.  They have been around since the Golden Age (under the names National Periodical and Timely respectively), and have produced some of the most long lasting characters in history.  Superman, Captain America, Batman, Sub-Mariner, Wonder Woman, Spider-Man, Green Lantern, Iron Man, Flash, Thor, Catwoman, Hulk, and many others have existed for decades.

 

There are a few differences between the two companies characters and continuity.  

 

DC has the more powerful characters.  Superman can lift an aircraft carrier, and used to be able to move planets around (see what marriage gets you).  Batman knows every martial art, is a master of disguise, has an arsenal of special weapons and vehicles, and is the worlds greatest detective to boot.  The Flash can run at the speed of light.  Wonder Woman can make men do whatever she wants them to (with or without the lasso).

 

Of course DC changes its continuity every few years, so the history of the universe is anything the current writers want it to be.  Plus it's character all have a weakness which can make them helpless, some exotic like Kryptonite, some common like fire, and some kinky like chains  (as is Wonder Woman's magic lasso didn't send enough of a message).

 

Marvel has a better continuity over all.  They use year long evens like The Civil War and the Secret War to tell a good story and correct past mistakes (like getting rid of Jessica Drew and killing Mockingbird).  Their characters have more depth.  DC has Paragons who act almost like cliches, the cliches changing with every change in Universe.  Marvel characters are burdened by their powers, physically, emotionally, socially, or even economically.  Some of the heroes are even hunted by those who don't like certain people with powers.  Marvel has a bit of an inconsistently there, as no one hunts the Fantastic Four for just having powers.

 

DC has better costumes.  There, I said it.

 

Marvel has powers that Champions can easily replicate for a reasonable amount of points.  Of course many of those powers aren't very useful.

 

Captain America, Hulk, and Thor are all Immune to Disease.  That might come in handy some times but won't stop Dr. Doom energy blast.

 

Marvel Characters have been in better movies the DC Characters.  Full disclosure I haven't seen Man of Steel yet but I did see the Watchmen by the same director so I'm assuming it's visually stunning at least.

 

Speaking of the Watchmen I finally understand why it ultimately failed.   It wasn't funny.  Even the Dark Knight has a few funny lines ("You think I should go to the hospital?"  "You don't watch much news, do you, Mr. Wayne?").  

 

More about character building to come.

[Doc Shadow]

Oh this is gonna be fun.

 

[Doc sits back with popcorn to watch the fireworks]   

[drunkonduty]

I haven't really thought about the costumes. Now I must go and google a whole lot of images and make some harsh judgements. (It's going to be a bit like watching the stars taking turns on the red carpet as they arrive for the Emmies. Should be fun.)

[Tasha]

Marvel sort of has a couple of Continuities going on at the same time.

The Mutant Continuity is the one where everyone hates the kids that develop Powers in childhood/Teens. The Anti Mutant Version of the KKK is out to kill all of the dirty Muties no matter how many times they save the world. This continuity got really dark in the 80's and were probably the books that moved Marvel from the bronze to Iron Ages.

The Regular Marvel Superheroic Continuity is where the Fantastic 4, Avengers, and the Non-Mutant heros adventure. Hulk can destroy towns across the country and only the Army comes out to contain him. There's no picketers asking for them to kill him for being green. The Heroes only real problems come from Heroic ID's being celebrities and from balancing Superheroic Exploits with Normal Lives. BTW Mutant Heroes adventuring with Regular Continuity teams get treated like any other Hero. The World Forgets that Beast, Wolverine and any other sometimes X-Man is a "Hated Mutie" when they are an Avenger.

I think that the Difference between Marvel and DC is that DC heroes are iconic powers first and people later. In Marvel they are Superhumans that are still regular people under the costumes. Not to dissimilar to a Police person or a Soldier. When a Marvel Character comes back from an adventure they deal with the Real life issues of being a person. DC Heroes are so above humanity they wouldn't even know HOW to be a normal person. That's why they are Aliens, people from Lost Civilizations, Milliionaires etc. In DC Heroes are the Super Paragon who never gets muddy feat (even the relative "Humans" are this way). In Marvel they take a character like Superman(AKA Hyperion) and turn him into a real guy with real problems who occasionally makes wrong decisions. DC has gotten a bit better with that, but the characters IMHO aren't really well suited to Marvel's style.

[Uthanar]

I haven't read much DC.  However, I have been reading the 90s Supergirl with Linda Danvers.  She has no actual relation to Krypton or Superman.  I would say that she is a bit distant from the 'DC characters are divorced from mundane reality' that is being placed here. 

 

I have no real clue on most of the general DC universe, but a lot of these agree with my uninformed information on many of their characters. 

 

DC has some real iconic characters that call me to read their specific books.  Marvel has teams that make me interested in reading their books. 

 

Just my 2 pulls from the penny box. 

[Cassandra]

Marvel sort of has a couple of Continuities going on at the same time.

 

The Mutant Continuity is the one where everyone hates the kids that develop Powers in childhood/Teens. The Anti Mutant Version of the KKK is out to kill all of the dirty Muties no matter how many times they save the world. This continuity got really dark in the 80's and were probably the books that moved Marvel from the bronze to Iron Ages.

 

The Regular Marvel Superheroic Continuity is where the Fantastic 4, Avengers, and the Non-Mutant heros adventure. Hulk can destroy towns across the country and only the Army comes out to contain him. There's no picketers asking for them to kill him for being green. The Heroes only real problems come from Heroic ID's being celebrities and from balancing Superheroic Exploits with Normal Lives. BTW Mutant Heroes adventuring with Regular Continuity teams get treated like any other Hero. The World Forgets that Beast, Wolverine and any other sometimes X-Man is a "Hated Mutie" when they are an Avenger.

 

I think that the Difference between Marvel and DC is that DC heroes are iconic powers first and people later. In Marvel they are Superhumans that are still regular people under the costumes. Not to dissimilar to a Police person or a Soldier. When a Marvel Character comes back from an adventure they deal with the Real life issues of being a person. DC Heroes are so above humanity they wouldn't even know HOW to be a normal person. That's why they are Aliens, people from Lost Civilizations, Milliionaires etc. In DC Heroes are the Super Paragon who never gets muddy feat (even the relative "Humans" are this way). In Marvel they take a character like Superman(AKA Hyperion) and turn him into a real guy with real problems who occasionally makes wrong decisions. DC has gotten a bit better with that, but the characters IMHO aren't really well suited to Marvel's style.

 

Tasha makes an excellent point about there being two Marvel Continuities.  The Avengers/Fantastic Four/Spider-Man Mainstream is your basic superhero universe which in it's heyday was a soap opera with powers and a touch of teen angst.  The X-Men Continuity is basically a story of going from childhood to teenager to adult with super powers.

 

We have to consider the historic context in which the DC and Marvel achieved their popularity.  Both started at the end of the Pulp Era where costumed heroes took on the underworld.  Soon after war came and they became super powered costumed soldiers battling Axis saboteurs.  

 

DC had a revival in the late 1950s by having the same kind of straight arrow heroes dealing in a science fiction adventure setting with aliens showing up all the time.  They also updated it's previous generation heroes to the then modern age.

 

Marvel had a revival in the early 1960s by tapping into the teen age believe that they were different, and turned that into costumed hero adventures.  More conventional heroes like Thor, Iron Man, Hulk, and Captain America each ended up having physical and/or mental vulnerabilities which made for good story telling, and made them more human.

[Cassandra]

I haven't really thought about the costumes. Now I must go and google a whole lot of images and make some harsh judgements. (It's going to be a bit like watching the stars taking turns on the red carpet as they arrive for the Emmies. Should be fun.)

 

I'm talking about the classic versions of the costumes.  I consider DC's New 52 Universe a temporary situation.

[Cassandra]

Good Costumes

 

Superman

Batman

Wonder Woman

Ms. Marvel (Blue Costume)

Iron Man

Captain America 

Batgirl (Barbara Gordon)

Flash (Golden Age)

Flash (Silver Age)

Green Lantern (Golden Age)

Green Lantern (Silver Age)

Thor

Wasp (Any, she has style)

Zatanna (Magician Costume)

Dr. Fate

Hawkman

Hawkgirl (Without the beak)

Power Girl (White Costume with circle)

 

 

Bad Costumes

 

Wonder Man

X-Men (I've never seen a good costume worn by any of the X-Men)

Zatanna (Any other)

Power Girl (Any other)

[kahuna's bro]

I've seen man of steel Cassandra it is worth buying and watching

[Cassandra]

I've seen man of steel Cassandra it is worth buying and watching

 

I look forward to seeing it. 

 

But the best thing about the Watchmen was the Prison Fight scene with Silk Spectre and Nite Owl.

[Tasha]

Man of Steel will make any fan of Superman just shout at the screen. The amount of destruction in Metropolis is so over the top. He only gives a damn about Lois. That wasn't any version of Superman ex perhaps a Mirror Universe Jerk Superman. First Season Smallville Clark Kent was more Superman than the character that inhabits Man of Steel. It's got some good things going for it, but the director completely fracks the movie up. I would rather spend time rewatching Superman IV with Richard Pryor than rewatch Man of Steel again.

[Cassandra]

Man of Steel will make any fan of Superman just shout at the screen. The amount of destruction in Metropolis is so over the top. He only gives a damn about Lois. That wasn't any version of Superman ex perhaps a Mirror Universe Jerk Superman. First Season Smallville Clark Kent was more Superman than the character that inhabits Man of Steel. It's got some good things going for it, but the director completely fracks the movie up. I would rather spend time rewatching Superman IV with Richard Pryor than rewatch Man of Steel again.

 

I think you're right about everything you said, except Richard Pryor was in Superman 3.

[Uthanar]

Supergirl in the pleated skirt is a fantastic costume.  I think that some of the other Supergirl costumes are nice, but they aren't that iconic. 

 

I think that the iconic aspect is something that DC has in some of their costumes, while Marvel has a lot of heroes that are in weird color spandex.  Obviously there are exceptions with Marvel and DC both. 

[drunkonduty]

Further to my above post...

 

I had a browse of costumes. My girlfriend joined in. We flicked through pictures saying things like "Uggh, just no" and "I like it, really suits him/her" or "I like the style but the colour is terrible."  It was very much like what we'd done just the day before while looking at the red carpet shots from the Emmies.   I've decided to compare characters by their niche. By niche I mean the characters sit in similar roles within their respective comic stables.

 

I've started by comparing Captain Marvels. As I'm sure we all know, there's a lot of them. With multiple costumes. I've chosen 4. For any Captain Marvel costume that didn't make my list just assume I hated it.

Niche definition: same name.

 

     

 

What we decided: Really liked both Billy Batson/Marvel and Carol Danvers. For BB liked the colour scheme, the double breasted shirt and the simplicity. For Danvers it was colour scheme and details. Mar-vell, just didn't like. Not awful, but not good either. Monica Rambeau also no. The wings under the arms are just uggh. But I do like the dreads/corn rows.

 

I'll post more completely subjective opinions as I get the chance.

 

Cheers.

 

 

[Cassandra]

Marvel's and Fawcett's Captain Marvel's I like.  Monica Rambeau was okay, but the new Carol Danvers one was as bad as putting Wonder Woman in pants.

[Tasha]

I think you're right about everything you said, except Richard Pryor was in Superman 3.

I was thinking Superman 3 but I overrode my first thought. Superman 4 was the Nuclear Weapons one, right? It's been so long and they were all so bad. (ex Superman I and even that was a bit camp).

 

What all of these Directors and Producers need to think about is that These Superhero films can stand on the classic stories that the fans love. There's no reason to change the character to make them more gritty or "realistic"

 

If you can see Man of Steel for free, It's worth sitting though. The Parts on Krypton were very pretty. Jor El was 10x the man that his son was in the movie.

[drunkonduty]

I like pants. I wear them myself.

 

Seriously though, the previous version of Carol Danvers' costume was just too stripperific for my tastes.

[drunkonduty]

Next up, Superman vs. Thor. "It's a walk off!"

 

Niche Definition: They're the biggest and toughest in their respective universes; they both have big red capes.

 

   

 

I've included a shot of  Beardy Thor but I'm making the comparison between Supes and Classic Thor as he has been for so much of his history.

 

I'll have to give it to Supes. It's a great colour scheme. It's simple. Thor's has those stupid light blue disks. What are they anyway? Also, not a fan of the boots.

 

Thor has gone through many costume changes in the last 20 years or so. Some of them I've really liked. In the armour, with the beard, very cool. (Although it still has the boots.) And then of course there's this one:

 

 

 

Next up I'll have a look at Wonder Woman and... someone. Not sure who to compare her too...

 

cheers.

 

 

 

[Alverant]

I don't know enough about DC and have been disappointed in Marvel so I can't really comment except to say:

 

DC reboots way too often and Marvel needs to reboot more often.

[kahuna's bro]

 

What all of these Directors and Producers need to think about is that These Superhero films can stand on the classic stories that the fans love. There's no reason to change the character to make them more gritty or "realistic"

AMEN TO THAT

 

 

[Doc Shadow]

 

What all of these Directors and Producers need to think about is that These Superhero films can stand on the classic stories that the fans love. There's no reason to change the character to make them more gritty or "realistic"

AMEN TO THAT

 

Dude, learn how to put your response outside the quote box.

 

Just move the cursor.

[kahuna's bro]

thanks doc

[Doc Shadow]

You're welcome.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Well....I've always narrowed down the two like this....in Marvel books..the heroes have to find ways to beat the villains. In DC books...the villains have to find ways to beat the heroes. The JL is essentially a pantheon of gods...and overall DC characters are harder to relate to. I also thought that the 52 reboot was utterly pointless beyond DC wanting more money. There was nothing wrong with the existing DC universe at that point. On the Marvel side, it'd be nice if they'd get writers who had ANY sense of continuity. Marvel used to be excellent on that subject, but in the last 10 years or so, they've gotten terrible. They've also gotten into this bad habit of..."let's just do something crazy and shocking....just because...we can always retcon it by the end of the story or shortly thereafter" Like having the bad guy shred Cap's shield in "Fear Itself" Completely...and utterly pointless. At this point, I like Marvel's characters better, but their writing has gotten very weak.

[Cassandra]

I was thinking Superman 3 but I overrode my first thought. Superman 4 was the Nuclear Weapons one, right? It's been so long and they were all so bad. (ex Superman I and even that was a bit camp).

 

What all of these Directors and Producers need to think about is that These Superhero films can stand on the classic stories that the fans love. There's no reason to change the character to make them more gritty or "realistic"

 

If you can see Man of Steel for free, It's worth sitting though. The Parts on Krypton were very pretty. Jor El was 10x the man that his son was in the movie.

 

Superman 3 and 4 were both bad.  I didn't have much faith in Man of Steel because the actor was forgettable (I can't even recall his name), the costume was ugly, and it all seemed too violent.  

 

I highly recommend the Richard Donner Cut Of Superman 2 which is much better then the Richard Lester version (Seriously, didn't anyone see the Bed Sitting Room before hiring him?).