DC Versus Marvel

[Cassandra]

Well....I've always narrowed down the two like this....in Marvel books..the heroes have to find ways to beat the villains. In DC books...the villains have to find ways to beat the heroes. The JL is essentially a pantheon of gods...and overall DC characters are harder to relate to. I also thought that the 52 reboot was utterly pointless beyond DC wanting more money. There was nothing wrong with the existing DC universe at that point. On the Marvel side, it'd be nice if they'd get writers who had ANY sense of continuity. Marvel used to be excellent on that subject, but in the last 10 years or so, they've gotten terrible. They've also gotten into this bad habit of..."let's just do something crazy and shocking....just because...we can always retcon it by the end of the story or shortly thereafter" Like having the bad guy shred Cap's shield in "Fear Itself" Completely...and utterly pointless. At this point, I like Marvel's characters better, but their writing has gotten very week.

 

That is a good point overall.  I think it's all a matter of liking the characters, and ignoring what the currently writing staff is doing to them.

[Cassandra]

Next up, Superman vs. Thor. "It's a walk off!"

 

Niche Definition: They're the biggest and toughest in their respective universes; they both have big red capes.

 

thor.jpg  thor with beard.jpg  superman-flying.jpg

 

I've included a shot of  Beardy Thor but I'm making the comparison between Supes and Classic Thor as he has been for so much of his history.

 

I'll have to give it to Supes. It's a great colour scheme. It's simple. Thor's has those stupid light blue disks. What are they anyway? Also, not a fan of the boots.

 

Thor has gone through many costume changes in the last 20 years or so. Some of them I've really liked. In the armour, with the beard, very cool. (Although it still has the boots.) And then of course there's this one:

 

Thor_Dargo_Ktor.jpg

 

 

Next up I'll have a look at Wonder Woman and... someone. Not sure who to compare her too...

 

cheers.

 

Valkyrie would probably be the closest in concept (both warrior woman from mystic realms).  

 

She Hulk might match her in Strength, but given Jen's happy go lucky attitude, and Diana's wanting to make a friend out of any powerful woman she meets they'd probably end up having a nice talk over tea.

 

Costume wise Wonder Woman wins because She Hulk basically wears a leotard and boots, and just changes colors now and again.

[Doc Shadow]

Wonder Woman wears a star-spangled, one-piece, bathing suit with boots and just changes the cut now and then.

 

So what's the difference?

[culhwch]

Well....I've always narrowed down the two like this....in Marvel books..the heroes have to find ways to beat the villains. In DC books...the villains have to find ways to beat the heroes. The JL is essentially a pantheon of gods...and overall DC characters are harder to relate to. I also thought that the 52 reboot was utterly pointless beyond DC wanting more money. There was nothing wrong with the existing DC universe at that point. On the Marvel side, it'd be nice if they'd get writers who had ANY sense of continuity. Marvel used to be excellent on that subject, but in the last 10 years or so, they've gotten terrible. They've also gotten into this bad habit of..."let's just do something crazy and shocking....just because...we can always retcon it by the end of the story or shortly thereafter" Like having the bad guy shred Cap's shield in "Fear Itself" Completely...and utterly pointless. At this point, I like Marvel's characters better, but their writing has gotten very week.

 

I like the current DC reboot myself.  This is the most I've enjoyed Superman in years.  And although, I've picked up a few Marvel books in the past, they haven't really interested my since the mid-90s.  I'm currently not reading any Marvel books, and I do get a few Dynamite and IDW books for my non-DC reading. 

[Cassandra]

Wonder Woman wears a star-spangled, one-piece, bathing suit with boots and just changes the cut now and then.

 

So what's the difference?

 

They put her in pants.  Pants!

[Doc Shadow]

I've seen the pictures. They don't do a thing for her.

Now if they'd gone with this outfit on the other hand ...

 

 

[bigbywolfe]

Man of Steel will make any fan of Superman just shout at the screen. The amount of destruction in Metropolis is so over the top. He only gives a damn about Lois. That wasn't any version of Superman ex perhaps a Mirror Universe Jerk Superman. First Season Smallville Clark Kent was more Superman than the character that inhabits Man of Steel. It's got some good things going for it, but the director completely fracks the movie up. I would rather spend time rewatching Superman IV with Richard Pryor than rewatch Man of Steel again.

See, I completely disagree with this.  The destruction in Metropolis is no more "over the top" than the destruction that takes place there when Superman fights Darkseid in season two of Justice League Unlimited, or when he fought Doomsday the first time in the comics (that fight actually covered several states and destroyed homes, national parks/forest, whole towns, and a large chunk of Metropolis).  

People are not used to seeing live action Superman cause that sort of collateral damage, but it's been happening in the cartoons and comics for at least 20 years and the fact that they actually chose to (and had the SFX to be able to) show it in a live movie does not equal "they're ruining Superman by making him all grimdark".  It just means they are showing on screen what the comics have shown for decades.

 

(Not that I'm arguing Man of Steel is not overly grim-dark, but it's because of the story and how Supes is portrayed, not the destruction).

[drunkonduty]

Yeah I was going to go with Wonder Woman and Shulkie. I did consider Valkyrie and also Sif. But they're not in the same league in terms of popularity. Of course, She Hulk isn't in the same popularity league as Wonder Woman either. And that's the rub, Marvel doesn't have any female characters who can match her in terms of iconic status.

 

But let's go with Shulkie.

 

I agree that She Hulk's costume is pretty basic. A white and purple one-piece swim suit. But I like basic. And when you've got green skin you've got to be careful with what colours you choose.

 

Yeah, WW's is basically a swim suit too. I like the gold eagle on the red bustierre. It's the thing that sells it to me. I also like the little tiara/headband thing and the braclets too. I like some of the variant costumes more. I've come across a piece of fan art with Cobie Smulders as WW. The costume looks much more like the one in Doc Shadow's post above, but without the cape. For that matter, Doc, I like that version too.

 

At the end of the day, my votes going to WW, but I like She Hulk's too.

 

(I would attach a couple of little pics here for illustration but I seem to have reached a limit on files I can attach. Is there a max. upload per thread or something?)

 

Cheers. :-)

[Cassandra]

I've seen the pictures. They don't do a thing for her.

 

Now if they'd gone with this outfit on the other hand ...

 

 

 

 

No so bad.

[Uthanar]

I might think Carol Danvers as being a reasonable equivalent to Wonder Woman.  Once again, no where near as popular. 

[drunkonduty]

Yeah Carol Danvers would be a good match for WW, but I already did her in my Captains Marvel post above.

[Uthanar]

You did.  Grabbed a new costume that I thought was pretty cool, but I love the old black swimsuit with a lightning bolt on it.  That I think is one of Marvel's best costumes.  Though...a bit stripperiffic.  In fact, the character that I got to play for a few sessions made in the game I was usually running made that EXACT comment on her mentor's costume (which is similar to Carol's but with a leather jacket worn and thigh high leather boots). 

[Cassandra]

I see Ms. Marvel a match for Power Girl.  Both are tough blonde bombshells in sexy costumes.

[Cassandra]

One big difference between DC and Marvel are Secret and Public Identities.  In the DC Universe most of the heroes have full time jobs and still go and fight evil.  Granted Superman gets away with a lot of it because Clark Kent always gets the story, the Flash is actually a Crime Scene Investigator, and Wonder Woman a Federal Agent so their jobs intertwine with being a superhero.

 

In the Marvel Universe being a superhero is a profession.  The Fantastic Four, Iron Man, and even the Black Widow are known superheroes.  That makes it easier in some ways, but complicates there lives (might want to consider adding a NCI for their villains.

[Uthanar]

Yeah, but Peter Parker, Daredevil, and more have actual jobs they have to deal with.  So Marvel does have some folks that have jobs. 

 

While Tony has a public identity, doesn't he do more work for his company than Bruce Wayne does?  Totally uncertain, but that was my impression. 

 

It is something that I dislike about X-Men being my favorite books, it gave me little to base secret identity stuff off of since they are generally removed from reality. 

[Cassandra]

Very true about Spider-Man and Daredevil.  I also recall Power Girl not having a Secret ID in a new JSA issues.

 

X-Men have to deal with anti-mutant prejudice so they have to have a secret identity, unless it's exposed like Dazzler's.

[drunkonduty]

@Uthanar

 

I'd not thought about it before but yeah... The X-Men really are out of it in terms of interaction with society. Cushioned from it all. Obviously this is what Prof. X intended with his school for gifted youngsters: providing a safe haven. But at some point wouldn't it become more hindrance than help? This theme may well have been covered in the books themselves, I haven't read X-Men in a long time.

 

Also I guess this for another thread.

[Hyper-Man]

Further to my above post...

 

I had a browse of costumes. My girlfriend joined in. We flicked through pictures saying things like "Uggh, just no" and "I like it, really suits him/her" or "I like the style but the colour is terrible."  It was very much like what we'd done just the day before while looking at the red carpet shots from the Emmies.   I've decided to compare characters by their niche. By niche I mean the characters sit in similar roles within their respective comic stables.

 

I've started by comparing Captain Marvels. As I'm sure we all know, there's a lot of them. With multiple costumes. I've chosen 4. For any Captain Marvel costume that didn't make my list just assume I hated it.

Niche definition: same name.

 

Mar-vell.jpg  carol danvers.jpg  moincarambeau.png  MarvelShazam.jpg

 

What we decided: Really liked both Billy Batson/Marvel and Carol Danvers. For BB liked the colour scheme, the double breasted shirt and the simplicity. For Danvers it was colour scheme and details. Mar-vell, just didn't like. Not awful, but not good either. Monica Rambeau also no. The wings under the arms are just uggh. But I do like the dreads/corn rows.

 

I'll post more completely subjective opinions as I get the chance.

 

Cheers.

 

That particular Carol Danvers costume seems to be awfully close to that of Marvelman/Miracleman (the British continuation of Shazam/Captain Marvel).

[Uthanar]

@Uthanar

 

I'd not thought about it before but yeah... The X-Men really are out of it in terms of interaction with society. Cushioned from it all. Obviously this is what Prof. X intended with his school for gifted youngsters: providing a safe haven. But at some point wouldn't it become more hindrance than help? This theme may well have been covered in the books themselves, I haven't read X-Men in a long time.

 

Also I guess this for another thread.

 

I haven't gotten past the 90s on nearly any comics.  Ran out of money back in the day.  Now I'm rereading a bunch of the issues and gearing up for the jump into the 2000s.  ATM I'm in the early 90s in the X-Men Chronology. 

 

The 90s are really the worst of it for the X-Men.  In the previous years they have a lot of interaction with the Townies, in NYC, and plot lines that pull on the human world.  However, as the 90s go on (when the X-Plosion happened) they in general are very segregated from the outside world and deal with their own issues. 

 

As to Cassandra, I love the Mutant Hysteria storyline that the X-Men deal with.  But I can't see it as the same as a secret identity.  There is a very different feel in the stories that are generated from it.  Both are good, but it is something I wish was brought up more. 

[drunkonduty]

That particular Carol Danvers costume seems to be awfully close to that of Marvelman/Miracleman (the British continuation of Shazam/Captain Marvel)

 

 

I've never heard of him. Is he an interesting character?

But yes, the costumes are quite close.

[Hyper-Man]

I've never heard of him. Is he an interesting character?

But yes, the costumes are quite close.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvelman

[Cassandra]

Marvelman/Miracleman was a blantant Captain Marvel (Fawcett) rip off (hense the change to Miracleman).  He was updated by Alan Moore and given a cynical "Watchman" style storyline where his young ally had become a ruthless dictator. 

 

Alan Moore is a very sad man.

[kahuna's bro]

. 

 

While Tony has a public identity, doesn't he do more work for his company than Bruce Wayne does?  Totally uncertain, but that was my impression. 

 

 

I think you may be correct

[phoenix240]

DC has better costumes.  There, I said it.

 

 

 

 

 

I strongly disagree on this point.

[phoenix240]

Wait... Watchmen "failed"? In what sense?