How to cost a Secondary Effect which has in game use.

[BhelliomRahl]

I am currently playing a Anti-Hero game.  My character has gained a Demon Knight's Powers focusing on Fire and Iron.  When he transforms his body becomes that of Iron but his blood becomes fire.  This allows him to make attacks of molten metal and fire.

 

Part of his back story is that he was a metal worker/blacksmith.  Part of the Special Effect of his powers is that he melts the Iron on his hands when he attacks. He usually leave cast-off metal as he fights but this has not impact on the combat. 

The thought came to me that he could use his cast-off metal to craft metal tools/implements by melting his body and allowing it to cool and then work it.  What this means it that I am able to fabricate Weapons and Shields but it requires time and planning.

 

I was wondering how people would build this?  I am essentially making use of a special effect from my character power, so I would need to build it mechanically.

 

My thought was a VPP which has Limitations relating to Time and Skill to change.

[Christougher]

Unless these new weapons and shields are significantly different or more powerful than normal items, I'd say it's just a special effect.  You're still requiring time and effort to forge the items, all you're doing is providing the raw materials yourself.

 

Chris.

[Christopher]

APG II has the Item Creation Power, wich is specifically designed for such cases. Without it Transform has been most often used to create Items from raw materials or raw materials from nothing.

 

There is also a good case to just use the Crafting Skills. Of course the question is where the Raw Materials come from. As I udnerstand it he is crafting the stuff from his own body. But the iron needs to replenish itself, one way or the other. What is the limit on how much iron he can "produce" that way?

 

Another big question is how fast can he make an item? Coudl he just form a Two Handed sword the same way a Green Lantern would make a Green Light Sword Construct? Or is this more along the lines of crafting times?

[TheQuestionMan]

Environmental Special Effects in Hero System can cause secondary effects.

 

Check it out.

 

QM

[Cassandra]

You could have an Entangle linked with his Hand To Hand Attack where he wraps the target in Iron Bonds after hitting them.

[Greywind]

"Noooo! Not ze manacles!"

[BhelliomRahl]

When in Demon Form his Body is Iron, he regenerates it in a couple of minutes when not in Combat.

 

He can produce the raw material (Demon Iron).  However at present he only has very little ability to manipulate his Iron.  What manipulation he has is most instinctual in association with his attacks.  Given time he may learn to control it to a greater extend.

As a Blacksmith the key things are that:

1) He produces his own material

2) He can generate his own heat to keep the metal malleable.

3) He can use his hand as an Iron Hammer to shape the material.

 

However he would require proper finishing tools (Honing, Tempering, Sharpening, etc.).  He also has to work the material as a normal Blacksmith would, however his advantage his that he could keep the metal at the right temperature which would allow uninterrupted work.

[assault]

So, what would the stuff he makes be able to do?

 

In what way is it different from similar items bought at the shop?

 

And so on.

[BhelliomRahl]

The main way it differs is that it is Demon Iron.  This material is innately Magical and is one of the hardest substances in existence.  A weapon or shield created from it would be virtually indestructible to normal methods.  The magical aspect I need to think of some more.

 

Its more as this is a Superhero Game any item I intend to use on a mostly permanent bases needs to be paid for with Character Points.  My GM has given me some leeway using this trick as he thought it was ingenious but has asked me to build it mechanically.  He had agreed to the fact that given time I can craft a metal item crudely or with proper tools very well but would like the items to be described (This was discussed last night).  That is why my initial thought was to use a VPP with limitations relating to Time and Skill to change so I could build what Items I needed.

 

I looked at Object Creation In APG2 but it should not be used to create weapons, I could use it for creating small items like a Iron tankard for drink and so forth.

[Ninja-Bear]

Take a look at summon power. Iirc you can summon items.

[Ninja-Bear]

Take a look at summon power. Iirc you can summon items.

[Ninja-Bear]

Oops sorry about double post

[Fireg0lem]

If the goal is for him to be using these weapons/armor, then the power to make them is just however you would build the weapons/armor themselves with Focus, and if the focus breaks he needs to make a new one. 

[Christopher]

If the goal is for him to be using these weapons/armor, then the power to make them is just however you would build the weapons/armor themselves with Focus, and if the focus breaks he needs to make a new one. 

By definition non-indestructible foci are replaceable. In superheroic games this can mean that Green Arrow/Hawkeye can just go home and take a new bow out of the hiding place and is ready to go again. (But usualy not more then once per day).

The same way Iron Man has more then one armor (if he does this as massive as in Iron Man 3, he might actually be a VPP build with OIHID on the common powers).

 

Now indestructible Foci are inherently no-replaceable. That is what makes "indestructile Focus" a zero cost thing - that there is only one of them and you have to hunt it down to get it back.

 

If it is "indestructible" or "almost indestructible" and replaceable, then it is at tops a restrainable Limitation (restrained by disarming and preventing him from getting a new one from home). -1/2 for stuff removed as accesibel Focus, -1/4 for stuff removed as inaccesible focus.

 

Another variant of Focus is Material Manifestation. This means that a power is attackable like a Focus, but can still be recast. In order for it to be worth it's points, there must be some drawback to loosing the power (Flying, Material Manifestation [ice Ramps] has an obviosu drawback; thigns like attacks would need a time to reform the Manifestation/reactivate the power).

[Greywind]

Indestructible does not inherently mean unique. It means that it can't generally be broken.

[Christopher]

Indestructible does not inherently mean unique. It means that it can't generally be broken.

You are right, he rules note nothing like this. Maybe we had a discussion and making the Unbreakable Focus irreplaceable/hard to replace was the best answer.

Note that I talked about replaceability, not uniqueness. There might be 12 Magic, unbreakable swords with the same powers. But you have only that one and if someoen steals it you have to get it back or get one of the other 11.

If you have more then one of the 12, your value for Focus drops (per multipel Focus rule). If you have all of them, you pretty much argued yourself out of the Focus Limitation and into Restrainabel territory (with that many you can jsut grab a new one and retrieve the lost ones at your Leisure/in off time).

 

The most common example of a unbreakbale Focus in superheroic settings in Captain Americas Vibranium-Steel alloy Shield. If he looses it, he has to track it down becase there are no others he can just grab. This is in contrast to his other shields (most often a simple steel shield or a energy shield made by Tony Stark) wich are easily replaced.

[Ninja-Bear]

Fyi - I looked up summon, and you're not suppose to use it for creating weapons. It gave an example of swords should be built as hka usable by others. So I would think a small vpp with the right limitations would work. The vpp so you can choose the right power for the weapon ot armor. I.e. hka for blades, ha for club and armor for well, armor. On the pool itself limitations would be rsr-blacksmith, extra time-1day. Just thoughts off the top of my head.