Absorption to 'top off'

[Chuckg]

Suppose I wanted to create a Sebastian Shaw type character, who got his STUN refreshed every time you punched him... forever and ever, amen. (i.e. -- a character you simply cannot beat down with your fists, but /must/ find a way to indirectly attack).

 

Since I am not the DM, I can't make a house rule to just ignore the Absorption cap. I have the DM's permission to create thie type of character, however... if I can find a way to do it within standard FRED.

 

How can I do this effect on a reasonable point budget?

[Steve Long]

Since this is a "how to," I've moved it so Herodom Assembled can offer its collective wisdom.

[Chris Goodwin]

Absorption to REC? That's not every time he's punched, I know....

 

Use Regeneration as a precedent. Build a STUN Regeneration that happens every time he gets punched, using Trigger. Buy lots of PD and/or Damage Reduction vs. STUN.

 

That's about the only way I can see doing it.

[Chuckg]

Damn, I should've rephrased the question to...

 

'Does Absorption to STUN that serves only to ramp the STUN back up to its original starting value (at maximum) still suffer the max Absorption cap?'

 

(I just looked at the Healing rules, and Healing /also/ has a max cap, darnit...)

[Chris Goodwin]

Originally posted by Chuckg

Damn, I should've rephrased the question to...

 

'Does Absorption to STUN that serves only to ramp the STUN back up to its original starting value (at maximum) still suffer the max Absorption cap?'

 

By the rules, yes. Any Adjustment Power built Only To Starting Value still has the cap. (This used to be a pet peeve of mine in 4th Edition.)

 

There's a ruling in the FAQ on interleaving Adjusted STUN/END/BODY with recovered same.

 

(I just looked at the Healing rules, and Healing /also/ has a max cap, darnit...)

 

Yes. I'm thinking the only way you're going to get exactly what you're looking for is to house rule it.

[misterdeath]

Cheese Alert! Cheese Alert!

 

Originally posted by archer

Yes. I'm thinking the only way you're going to get exactly what you're looking for is to house rule it.

 

Or, do what Bruce Harlick Did for Emissary (Plasmoid) in Enemies Assembled.

 

Have the Absorption feed the Stun and the Absorption max.

 

So, as you take damage you keep raising the Max so that you can keep taking damage, ad infinitum.

 

You might be able to convince the GM that some sort of Semi-custom advantage is what you want instead.

 

Cumulative is a +1. That might be about right.

 

It might be more cost effective to just put on a really high cap.

 

D

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by Chuckg

Damn, I should've rephrased the question to...

 

'Does Absorption to STUN that serves only to ramp the STUN back up to its original starting value (at maximum) still suffer the max Absorption cap?'

 

(I just looked at the Healing rules, and Healing /also/ has a max cap, darnit...)

 

Yes, Absorption does have a maximum cap. However, there may be a way around this. From the FAQ:

 

Q: Can Absorption, Aid, or Transfer specify that some or all of the Character Points received go to improve the effectiveness of the Adjustment Power itself?

 

A: At the GM’s discretion, yes. However, the GM should watch over such powers carefully, and be prepared to forbid them or require the player to revise them, if they prove to have too unbalancing an effect on the game.

 

So, you could theoretically build an Absorption Power to both STUN and to the Absorption, so that the maximum amount of STUN that the Absorption could give you continues to increase after each attack.

[Chris Goodwin]

You reach a point of diminishing returns. No Adjustment Power is efficient enough to infinitely increase both its own maximum and whatever it is adjusting.

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by archer

You reach a point of diminishing returns. No Adjustment Power is efficient enough to infinitely increase both its own maximum and whatever it is adjusting.

 

Uhm... why not?

[Gary]

There is a way of doing it, but it's very expensive. Buy your absorption as normal. Then buy +500 stun (or something equally outrageous) with the limitation that it only kicks in when the regular absorption is maxed out, and only as much stun is activated as would normally be activated by the absorption. That should be good for a -1 or -1.5 limitation.

[Chuckg]

Originally posted by archer

You reach a point of diminishing returns. No Adjustment Power is efficient enough to infinitely increase both its own maximum and whatever it is adjusting.

 

Even if you use the +1/2 Advantage to simultaneously feed both?

[Killer Shrike]

Alternately consider making the character using the Automaton Takes No Stun and call it a wash.

 

Then have Absorption feed an END Reserve with no REC, and have gobs of extra Strength that spends END from the END Reserve.

 

Thus the STUN doesnt really hurt the character at all, and the more END that goes into his END Pool, the more of his Super Strength he can use.

 

Bump the Absorption max up a bit, and take advantage of the efficiency of an END Reserve. You still Adjust the Reserve at the 2/1 END/Character Point rate rather than the 10/1 rate of an END Reserve (I think there is a FAQ entry about that), but its still pretty cheap all around.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Chuckg

Even if you use the +1/2 Advantage to simultaneously feed both?

Somebody sat down and figured this out at some point -- maybe on the old boards.

 

You do eventually reach a point of finiteness IIRC. Its still pretty decent however. My main gripe with it is the constant bookkeeping. Slows the game down too much.

[SuperGuy]

I have a question. Does he only get his Stun back when "punched" or attacked with physical force, not energy damage. If so, then depending of frameworks this is what you might want to do:

 

absorption xd6 -> STUN(2/3) Absorption(1/3).

 

You still can't absorb more than xd6 stun in a phase, but it would have no cap.

[Gary]

Another extremely cheesy possibility would be to have about 64 multiforms that triggers when absorption max is reached. Each one is identical to the original character, but has a "fresh" absorption. With 64 multiforms, it becomes extremely unlikely that the character will ever cycle through all of them.

[Fireg0lem]

I think you are approaching it the wrong way. Here's how I'd buy it:

 

Armor: Lots/Lots, Only Stops Stun.

 

Because thats the effect you are getting.

[Chuckg]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike

You do eventually reach a point of finiteness IIRC. Its still pretty decent however. My main gripe with it is the constant bookkeeping. Slows the game down too much.

 

That's why I plan to Standard Effect Rule the Absorption dice.

 

And thanks for that 2/3rds, 1/3rd idea... it's gonna rock the world.

[Farkling]

I'm with Fireg0lem

 

Say, 30 PD, and maybe +20 PD Stun Only

75% Resistant Physical Damage Reduction - STUN only

 

Nothing ever dazed Shaw except energy attacks. The only time I remember him getting knocked unconscious by physical attacks, was from a terminal velocity imapct while he was suffering from a SEVERELY increased mass...I figure he hit for at least 40-50d6.

[austenandrews]

I'm with Fireg0lem. You're really talking about two effects - defense against physical attacks & Absorption adding to STUN. Buying up your defenses takes care of gaining back STUN lost to a physical attack, for a lot cheaper than Absorption. I'd consider 75%rDR + Armor + KB Resistance (or maybe even the Desol route if the character's only attacks are via STR). Then you can use Absorption to add back additional STUN when the character is hit with a physical attack (though you'd have to check the FAQ and/or consult your GM to be sure that Absorption activates if you're using Desol - I don't see why not, but you never know).

 

-AA

 

Edit: Great minds, Farkling.

[Kristopher]

I've always just ruled that Absorbtion that feeds expendable Characteristics (STUN and END) doesn't "max out" as long as the absorbed points are bringing the Characteristic back up to it's normal starting level.

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by Kristopher

I've always just ruled that Absorbtion that feeds expendable Characteristics (STUN and END) doesn't "max out" as long as the absorbed points are bringing the Characteristic back up to it's normal starting level.

 

That's the way that Adjustment Powers used to work under 4E. I'm currently applying a custom +1/2 Advantage on Adjustments, "Doesn't Fade Below Starting Levels. " I got that by comparing the plusses and minuses of 4E Aid (costs END, doesn't fade below starting values) with those of 5E Aid (doesn't cost END, does fade below starting values), and assuming these essentially balance each other out. Buying the 4E version to 0 END would be a +1/2 Advantage. Of course 4E Aid cost only 5 Char. Pts. per 1d6, but most people felt that that was underpriced.

 

I find this approach greatly simplifies some concepts, like a Transfer or Absorption that "revitalizes" a character - much less clunky than Linking Healing to these Powers, and not that far off costwise.

[Chris Goodwin]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden

That's the way that Adjustment Powers used to work under 4E.

 

That's not the way they used to work under 4E, and that's the source of my pet peeve. There was in fact a max on Adjustment Powers whether they brought the adjusted ability to starting level or not. Common misconception that annoyed the hell out of me.

[Lord Liaden]

Ah, you're quite right, Chris. I should have read the post I quoted more carefully. Sorry for giving misleading info.

[Demonsong]

Well if you going for the most ubber max adsorption combo you can find 1/3 and 2/3 is the way to go. Any thing less than 1/3 in to raising the cap and eventually you will hit your cap. But 1/3 X 2 = 2/3. So your cap will always rise at the same rate as what ever you are putting your adsorption points in to. It’s a scary thought. I love it.

[Chuckg]

The current absorption combo for 'Sebastian Shaw' is at the +1 level, so it simultaneously feeds four things:

 

STUN

BODY

END

Absorption cap

 

And each one is fed with the full absorption point total, so that cap is not only being kept up with, it's getting further and further ahead in geometric ratio.

 

(The first three are Only To Starting Values, natch)

 

Plus the 75% Damage Reduction, natch.

 

Basically -- do not punch this guy. Do not hit this guy. Do not even bother using kinetic force against this guy. Use an attack form that his special defense does *not* cover, and use it a lot. If you try to just beat your way through, you are gonna need the +50 Asteroid of Smiting just to make him feel it.

 

You know, just like Shaw was.

 

And it occurs to me that doing the same thing for both Physical /and/ Energy attacks, and then putting a limitation on the Damage Reduction of 'does not work vs. kryptonite or magic', gets you a damn close approximation of Superman.