Teleporting

[Ninja-Bear]

I think that there was a thread awhile ago with t-port fu.

[Hyper-Man]

I don't know about Teleporting Martial arts but I did build a couple of Teleportation SFX frameworks a few years ago.

 

See this old thread - http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/69013-i-need-some-shadow-powers/?p=1769122

[Beast]

Not really
I just wanted her to be the master of teleporting

Well, Blip started out with a MPow, but switched to a VPP when Beast saw what Allan and I could do with a VPP. 

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

*shrugs*  It was the first time I saw her with a VPP, and it was immediately following our very interesting trip to the Diamond District and then Hell, wherein Allan and I did such interesting things, so I'll probably tend to think of it as being a clear cause/effect ...

 

Pyronide, Christopher makes a very important point: remember to seperate teleportation the special effect from Teleportation the Power.  Most Powers can be used with a teleportation special effect - duplication (moving so fast you're in several places at once), blast (whether teleport to him, take a swing, and teleport back, or the 'indirect' swing through a portal), damage reduction (multi-porting to make it so you catch only part of the blast), etc.  Not everything needs to be created with the Teleportation Power.  For example:

 

Blast 10d6, Area of Effect (4m Radius; +1/4) (62 Active Points); OIF (Automobile / Truck / Large Object of Opportunity; -1/2): 41 points standard, 6 END cost.  The special effect of this power is that Blip opens a gateway directly underneath a nearby large object - car, truck, or boulder - and another gateway directly above her targeted opponent.  After impact, it is up to the GM whether or not the object has rolled or bounced off the target.  Knockback done with this power will most likely be straight down.

[Pyronide]

Forget to check one day and you're behind by a page haha, appreciate all the chatter on teleporting.

 

I do understand the difference between the Power and the Effect of teleporting, so thank you all for helping me wrap my head around that.

 

Tthe car scenario I had in mind wasn't using portals/gates, but actually teleporting with it to 'Drop' it, similarly to "Jumper" and how they used Teleporting. Other things I am working on now would be the combination of teleporting and throwing something similarly to a passby or move through, whichever is more accurate. I get the stretching part where "he TPs in, punches, TPs out" or "TPs the thrown object" but I am trying to work out how to get a movement out of it as well so more like "TPs from point A, appears at Point B to throw the stretch power, then TPs to Point C" I don't know if these are possible or not, but it would also be used for attacking people with EB: Line and "TPing through to make attacks and not TP back to point of Origin, but stay at the end of the Line attack" I hope these make sense. My last idea was with seeing people suggest Increased Mass... If i understand correctly, you still need to use UAA because a Teleport needs a willing person or UAA. With UAA now on brought up this brings up my other idea... I was joking with my friend about Teleport UAA and the teleport damage table... instead of Teleporting them into a wall to receive damage, could you Teleport them into each other? We were laughing over the thought of clearing a room with an AoE: Radius-Teleport:UAA and then Teleport them all into the same spot... is this possible or just a funny thought?

 

Also, the idea of Healing while TPing is a cool concept I am tinkering with still. If I say that all my attacks are done through Teleports could I then link Regen (1 point) everytime a Teleport (If it is an attack or not) heal 1 point of body?

 

Again, would just like to say thanks for all the help on this. I can't wait to begin other threads with other concepts I have running through my head (curse this system and its amazingness )

 

Edit: I had forgotten some ideas but added them into the paragraph

[bigdamnhero]

Teleport UAA was the very first Oh-My-God-This-Build-Is-Broken Hero power I ever ran up against, back in 3ed Fantasy Hero. If you're in a world where  flight is uncommon, it's amazing how many problems can be solved by bampfing your opponent 50' in the air. OTOH, building the same Offensive Bampfing power as a Blast lets you get the same effect while staying within damage caps. Same for teleporting heavy objects on top of people, built as Indirect Blast.

 

MPs vs VPPs: In my games it's very common for a character will start out with an MP because that's all they can afford; then as they get XP they add slots until eventually the tipping point is reached where it's cost effective to switch to a VPP.

 

Also don't forget other defensive powers, like teleporting out of the way (DCV boost or Dodge boost), or opening a portal to intercept incoming attacks (built as rDef, Damage Negation, etc).

[Pyronide]

I know this is borederline Necro-Posting, but I had this other thought about Teleporting and didn't feel like making another thread... Yell at me if this was a no no please

 

anyways, this latest idea is a little dirty (to say the least haha). I was thinking about taking the concept of being teleported into a wall as an attack... but on a larger scale... If say, Used a Teleport > AoE: Radius > Selective > UaA but instead of bamfing them outside to fall to their death, what about bamfing them all together to form a huge hideous and grotesque ball of people.

 

...and discus!

[薔薇語]

Actually, you specifically can not do that. Teleporting as an attack is not allowed to willfully teleport someone into other structures or other living things. For this you are actually looking at using a rather large RKA, AOE, Selective. As the GM, if you actually did enough to kill everyone involved, I would probably allow the special effect to go off as described. If it were a less than killing amount of damage, I might adjust the exact nature of how it affected them. Maybe just pieces of flesh were ripped away, for example. 

Hope that helps. 

Foreign Orchid. 

[Pyronide]

It does, thanks.. I just had this running around my head for a while, now I can lay it to rest Thanks!

[TheDarkness]

Or, alternately, teleporting everyone together might be treated as a teleport with a mass transform. Since I'm the guy planning Pyronide's campaign, and I KNOW I didn't give him enough points to do it, the balance is okay. For now...

 

Totally aside, but the car teleport: if it is simply a physical blast that requires a nearby object of some weight, this is no big deal as long as the available objects are not important to anyone. As soon as they are, that PD is doing a blast that is paid for, and effecting something else for free. Since Pyronide is already obsessed with teleporting a particular motorcycle as soon as he sees it, I may have to think this!

 

I have a lot of debate in my head (there's quite a few voices in there) about teleporting into things or teleporting others into things. In certain campaigns, I'm not sure I'd even make the option possible as an accident. If teleporting into things is deadly, teleporting into atmosphere would pretty much kill any teleporter, due to the sudden presence of air in every part of your body. I tend to assume that teleports either are somewhat explosive(the teleport clears the space), with the effect that you would have to pay for the ability to destroy a wall as you're teleporting into it if you want that effect, or are gates, and, if the other end of the gate is a wall, you'd have to be able to break that wall to pass through it.

 

However, I'm seeing how Pyronide's teleporter build develops for this campaign, and as much as possible going with his character idea. Currently, I'm more concerned about what he names this character. I think he finds joy in finding names I do not want to have to ever say.

[薔薇語]

I think a Transform for the above power isn't needed and just oddly complicates things. 

Assuming the power works as desired (transform A, B, & C into non-living Mass of organic mess X), then all the targets are dead. The Mass doesn't really have that much in the way of new features other than "non-living". And achieving that goal is easy with a simple Killing attack. The fact that an RKA doesn't normally group distinct fleshy bits together into a single mass upon completion is just a quirk of standard special effects being applied. There is nothing actually preventing that from being the case. 

Also, the teleportation power needn't be applied here to achieve the desired effect. The fact that the targets of the Killing attack form into a single mass is just as easily explained away as being the Special effect of the RKA than anything else. And by focusing on one defined power rather than a multitude of others is normally the best way to go. Simple is best. 

As for issues with "teleporting into objects causing damage" - that is just a troupe for teleportation from several genres. Thus why it was essentially built in. The fact that we understand Air and Brick walls are equally made up of matter is a bit of over analyzation. If we must analyze to that degree, it could be that air parts faster as the teleporter's form come into being. Thus the shock to the system is greatly reduce. But a brick wall is too dense to part as the teleporter's body seeps into the new space, thus the damage from forceful eviction or loss of limbs, etc. 

If you really never want to never deal with that issue at all, require all Teleport builds to take "safe blind" as standard. It makes their built a bit more expensive but brings it in line with your expectations. Or you could require them to take it but make it be a +0 advantage so they don't penalized for that choice. 

Foreign Orchid. 

[TheDarkness]

I see what you're saying with the killing attack, much simpler. I'd probably lean towards making it so that anyone not outright killed is not affected, as I feel the idea of having any more than the smallest increment of one's body merged with something else and not being killed by it kind of kills the narrative. And to achieve that effect would require a ton of points. Also, considering that the hero is  in a supers campaign that is not super gritty, he might find it hard to find the opportunity to do so.

 

As far as the trope of dangerous teleports, I'm not against it entirely, but back when I first ran games, I didn't use that option for the reasons stated. Because there was no chance for it, I didn't have people pay for safe blind at the time, but I suppose I would have to examine whether that unbalances the cost of the power versus other powers. I always assumed the same effect that evacuates the air from the teleport point would prevent a teleport that did not create a void for the teleporter. It's a world detail that I like, but not necessarily one I must always use in any campaign.

 

I suppose if I ran a game again where I didn't use it, instead of risking injury and death, the hero doing a blind teleport risked failure and a lost action, as the point was occupied by solid matter.

[TheDarkness]

LOL. Just thought of an actual movie application of the transform 'teleport'. It would just be an AOE transform. Brundle-Fly.

 

Just pay a gazillion points and combine the Justice League into a walking monstrosity that loves Geena Davis a bit too much.

[薔薇語]

I see what you're saying with the killing attack, much simpler. I'd probably lean towards making it so that anyone not outright killed is not affected..

 

I think you are over thinking it far too much. 

 

Basically every killing attack of any variety is a transform "living" into "not living anymore". But just because a killing attack fails to achieve maximum effect in a single go we don't discount the damage dealt by the killing attack. We just edit the narrative of how it worked. 

 

Bo the Bowman shoots an arrow at Terry the target. Bo wants to Kill Terry and is thus aiming at his heart. Terry has 20 body. Bow deals 15 killing past defenses. 

 

We now have a choice to make: Do we accept that Bo did do damage but didn't achieve full effect or do we ignore everything since Terry survived? I think this is an incredibly simple question: we accept the damage. Obviously an arrow to the heart (Bo's target) is deadly and he did hit his aimed shot but that doesn't mean it hit exactly as desired. No, the Arrow was off to the side a bit and the rigid chest bones of Terry managed to absorb some of the impact why deflecting the arrow up a bit. So it hurts a TON but if treated won't be life ending. 

 

Terrance the Teleporter wants to teleport Terry and Tina the targets into a single mass, effectively killing them. He strikes them with his RKA. Tina has 10 Body and Terry has 20 Body. Terrance did 7 points of Killing. 

 

Now how do we resolve this? 

 

We it obviously hurt both of them but most certainly didn't kill either. Staying reasonably true to the special effect how could this have happened? Well, perhaps large chunks of Tina's flesh were teleported away and also some chunks of Terry's flesh were also teleported away. They both reappear at some point in a single congealed mass. Looking at the two targets we can see they are quite hurt as pieces of flesh are missing and micro pocks litter their bodies as small bits of event their internal organs, bones, etc were ripped from them. But despite all this pain, they can keep going. Like taking a knife to the gut: it hurts but they have trained well to over come it!

 

But what if Terrance did 15 points? 

 

Well Tina is fully dead now and her whole body is teleported away. It reappears in a convoluted mess as large swaths of Terry's flesh joined with it to create an unrecognizable oozing and bleeding blob that horrifies even the most stoic of heroes. 

 

25 body?

 

Full effect as desired. 

 

Foreign Orchid. 

[Pyronide]

The issue I still have with using an RKA is that it feels like too much damage... I also haven't looked at the teleporting into walls DMG table thingy and they could be balanced, but it just feels like too much damage. In my opinion, I feel like it wouldn't be that bad, it would be more shock than pain perhaps because the teleportation taking them by surprise and them not being used to it like the Bamfer is... this is just my train of thought, it would simply be used to confused them all for an indefinite amount of time until they can learn to work/think/act together in unison to do things...

[Beast]

the majority of the table is stun only
Teleporting into an object the table assumes that the victim bounces out to the nearest open space
the table has a great range of damage that can happen
I'm just going to cover the averages

(2-8) Stun only is 3d6 of that many d6's of damage so the average is 10 or 11d6 so 35 or 38.5 stun

(9-10) Normal damage is 2d6 of normal dice that does body  so 7 body and 24.5 stun

(11-12) Killing damage 1d6 of that many killing dice 3 dice is 10.5 body 4 dice is 14 body

 

on average most characters are going to be hurt pretty bad

maybe dead if they get a bad roll 

 

one thing a 1d6+1 AVAD that does body will make the that character target #1

[薔薇語]

The issue I still have with using an RKA is that it feels like too much damage...

 

The desired effect was to teleport a bunch of individuals into one solid mass of flesh and bone. This newly created mass of human flesh would be the newly destroyed remnants of the unfortunate targets of the attack. To accomplish this kind of goal, one is going to need a large RKA. Using a normal blast would require a DC level that would be nigh impossible.

 

 

As to simply teleporting someone into a wall or into the ground, that is easy enough to do. There are several good ways to do it. One of the ways I tend to like because of its simplicity is using a Martial Throw and either buying up the damage directly or having some extra that you can add to it. This would let the Character to attack and forceable move a character. The damage the target takes would be the "teleported into object" special effect damage. It also results in the target being prone and acting on the Character's dex in their next segment. There is no absolute guide to how far a target can be thrown but that can be worked out by the GM and player.

 

The second way to do this is to teleport something INTO the target. This is a simple Blast or RKA of what ever DC you choose. It just as the special effect of "I send this pebble into Baddie's belly".

 

The Third and most complicated way is: X inches of Teleportation with "Usable as an Attack" (you now have to define a reasonable defense). Then add to that a linked Blast or RKA for the damage. This would result in needing to make an attack for the teleportation (no range unless you buy it with "Ranged") and then (depending on the GM) a follow up attack with the damage portion. If the first attack succeeds, you move the target somewhere. If the Second attack goes off, you then also deal damage. If you also want to "knock prone" the target, you could add in something akin to a linked "Change Environment: DEX check" or potentially "Position shift" on the Teleportation as that could reasonably allow you to control the facing of the target.

 

The third way, while legit and able to capture a lot of what you are wanting is, in my not so humble opinion, overly complicated and convoluted. But it is the only one of the three that actually utilizes the "Teleportation" power. But keep in mind, "Special Effect" and "Power" are not synonymous terms in HERO for a reason.

 

Foreign Orchid.

[TheDarkness]

To clarify, pyronide and I were speaking, and the desired effect is actually a AOE transform that combines the individuals into one new creature. So, no damage, but a physical and mental transform. Again, I suspect that the points required would be astronomical.

 

So, apparently, it is Brundle-Fly.

[薔薇語]

So, lets assume there are four characters involved. 1 is the teleporter and the other three are the victims.

 

The goal is to remove the three victims and transmutate them into a single new entity. Question: is the new entity suppose to be under the Teleporter's command? Does it have the memories and skills of the previous three victims? Is it anything more than a fleshy abomination? What follows assume it is just a fleshy abomination that while it might be able to be tamed by the teleporter it isn't naturally inclined to be its slave.

 

RKA: AOE (perhaps selective so you choose whom in that area to kill) linked to a Summon: Flesh Monster. Build the Flesh monster on X number of points. Apply a limitation to the summon that reads something akin to: "The Flesh Monster's total points are determined by the volume of flesh harvested. Add up the total body of all victims; that number is 100 percent summon. Reduce the Flesh Monster's total points based on the percentage difference between damage dealt and total.

 

This gives you your Grundy, kills your targets, and gives you a chance to control the Grundy. If you want, you can adjust the Summon to be slavishly loyal or instinctively hostile if desired. If you want the Flesh Monster to have particular skills reflective of the targets, then that is a whole host of other powers and advantages that would need to be added on and gets fairly complicated.

 

Foreign Orchid.

[Pyronide]

It isn't meant to be controlled by any means, but that is a cool thought. To answer the other questions, the victims would be the same skill / knowledge / memory wise, but just inside 1 body made up of the victims bodies (3 in that example). Now three people have to try and work their minds together in order to get the body to "work / function" effectively. It should be more confusing than damaging to the victims.

[薔薇語]

Well, when trying to create a summon with the memories and skills of a different character you need to have a much more elaborate build. One that I haven't done but I know others have done so here on the boards. If that is your goal, then stick with my original build (RKA with linked Summon) and adjust the summon to match the new needs. I would probably recommend posting about that specific build in a separate thread. I am sure Hyperman or Question_Man have a build off hand that can do the job.

 

Foreign Orchid.

[crowtales]

Very helpful thread for a teleporter I'm building. Thanks for all the info.