Dodge and block arrows

[Markdoc]

As an aside, I should note, that when I and my college gaming buddies started shooting bows and slings, I was astonished (having grown up with guns) how short the usable ranges actually are on traditional missile-powered weapons. It was a bit of an eye-opener, and explained a lot about medieval ancient battles to me: when you are in range to actually sink an arrow deeply into something - never mind penetrate armour - you are really, really close. Close enough that they can sprint at you - close enough to literally see the whites of their eyes. It explained readily why in so many accounts of ancient battles the archers ended up in melee, even when pretty obviously they didn't want to be - to get close enough to hurt (rather than just distract) you have to move right into the danger zone.

 

cheers, Mark

[Old Man]

So Isao is drawing his sword from the scabbard and swatting away missiles about 2% of an arrow's size (if you look at slo-mo videos of people cutting arrows, they hit the shaft, not straight onto the tip), which are travelling about 2-3x the speed of an arrow fired from a traditional style bow and he's doing it at about 20 metres. Even taking into account the fact that the videos are staged to give him a really good chance at it, it still demonstrates that he'd have no problem hitting a larger, slower target (in fact, he gave up cutting arrows for démonstrations like this precisely because it was too easy, and too many other people are doing it now).

 

I feel obligated to point out that he is not exactly blocking, however. 

 

Meanwhile, the Mythbusters were able to catch arrows out of the air, and they're not exactly trained martial artists.

[bigbywolfe]

I feel obligated to point out that he is not exactly blocking,

In Hero System terms Blocking is exactly what he is doing. 6E allows Blocking of ranged attacks (with GM permission, appropriate object may be required, etc.). He is using his OCV to deflect all damage from an attack using his sword. How is that any less of a Block than if he was deflecting another sword?

[Old Man]

Because the attacks are already missing him.

[Hyper-Man]

Technically, it's already possible to Block an attack directed at an adjacent target.

 

The better question might be - Would his cutting action actually prevent the attack from hitting him if it WAS aimed at him to begin with?

[Markdoc]

Technically, it's already possible to Block an attack directed at an adjacent target.

 

The better question might be - Would his cutting action actually prevent the attack from hitting him if it WAS aimed at him to begin with?

 

Yes, in the slo-mo you can see the pellet ricochet off to one side. I'm not even sure that the pellet is not aimed at him, to be honest. It's certainly aimed close to him, at any rate.

Anyway, if you look up several of his other videos, where he is chopping arrows out of the air, there the arrow is aimed at him, and he is hit by the remnants of the arrow - but the cut causes the arrow to fold up as he hits it, so the point of the arrow is deflected.

 

cheers, Mark

[Christopher R Taylor]

Yes I agree, if someone practices for hours, sets up a careful array, knows exactly where the arrow is coming from, stands in just the right place, and gets 15 takes, they can deflect an arrow.

 

But in a fight?  Nuh uh, not unless you get stupidly lucky.  So yeah, roll a 3.  But letting everyone do it, with just a block roll?  Seriously?

[Manic Typist]

 

But in a fight?  Nuh uh, not unless you get stupidly lucky.  So yeah, roll a 3.  But letting everyone do it, with just a block roll?  Seriously?

 

In a game of make believe where a dude muttering in faux Latin can bend the rules of (un)reality and there are anthropomorphic animals running around? As far as that can be taken seriously...why not?

[Christopher R Taylor]

The thing is, Hero doesn't distinguish between settings and campaigns.  In that super realistic cop game you can bat aside arrows just like the wild martial arts game, by default.

[L. Marcus]

Unless the GM nixes it. It's always up to the GM.

[Manic Typist]

Slap on the Real Weapon Limitation and boom- no slapping arrows aside with your bare hands. Or katanas.

[Markdoc]

Yes I agree, if someone practices for hours, sets up a careful array, knows exactly where the arrow is coming from, stands in just the right place, and gets 15 takes, they can deflect an arrow.

 

You need to practice for years, not hours, but the rest of this is just fluff: as shown in multiple videos, people can deflect arrows without needing 15 takes - indeed they can do it multiple times in a row. That part really is not up for debate. As noted already in this thread, the mythbusters episode showed a guy catching an arrow - and he did it in one take (though he cheated a little, since the arrow was relatively slow). To be honest, catching or deflecting arrows seems to be something that multiple people have demonstrated that they can do. It's obviously hard and requires good reflexes and plenty of training, but I can't actually see anything that suggests the idea is controversial. Simply saying it can't happen is not terribly convincing, when you have videos and real life demonstrations showing it happening (and showing harder feats being performed). Indeed, international level cricketers routinely catch balls moving at 130-150 fps - the same speed as a arrow, so it's not like that speed can defeat human reflexes. And they don't get to plot the direction or height of the ball - they have to react to an unpredictable course in a split second

 

I do agree though that it should require more than a simple block roll. In all cases where we see people catching/deflecting objects at that speed, they are inevitably athletes who have trained really, really hard. Allowing missile deflection (for arrows and hand-hurled missiles, not bullets) seems to fit the bill reasonably well.

 

cheers, Mark

[Hyper-Man]

Dodge Arrows

http://www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Plymouth-Fire_Arrow-1979-_Sport_Coupe_f3q_B_W.jpg

http://www.allpar.com/photos/plymouth/arrow-1977.jpg

 

Dodge Big Block

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Yq--5BU1Hwo/hqdefault.jpg

 

HM

[Markdoc]

That's it. You're fired.

 

cheers, Mark

[bigdamnhero]

Personal experience? You've been shot at by arrows?

So I have a crazy friend who, when he was a teen, he and another even-crazier friend used to shoot blunted arrows at one another at various ranges. (They stepped down the pull of their bows, and wore lots of padding and eye protection, but still...don't try this at home kids.) He insists that dodging arrows at distances of more than ~25 yards is actually fairly easy, and in fact at 50-100 yards it's more like "stepping out of the way" than truly dodging per se. I would asses that he had, in game terms, a pretty high base DCV to start with. But still.

 

Now at the shorter ranges typical in most RPG battles (IMX), no you're not going to dodge the arrow itself once it's been launched, but moving around definitely makes you harder to hit, ie it raises your DCV, ie it's a Dodge in Hero terms.

 

Blocking arrows with a shield? Of course; that's largely what shields were for.

 

Blocking arrows with a sword or barehanded? In realistic games, I might put a penalty on it unless the character bought skill levels or a specific Talent for it. In more cinematic/fantastic games, it's just something people do.

 

I was astonished (having grown up with guns) how short the usable ranges actually are on traditional missile-powered weapons.

Right. As with early firearms, beyond pointblank range you're really shooting at formations rather than aiming at individuals. (And armor penetration is another matter.)