Cyberkinesis and power armors (5E)

[Grond]

One of the characters in my gaming group is a cyberkineticist and about to face Defender is a 8friendly) combat. He has bought a multipower that includes ego attacks, telepathy, mind control, mind scan etc. for the machine class of minds.

He asked if Defender's armor has electronic circuits or processors he can control and my answer was "Maybe, I'll tell you next week"

How would you handle such a combat, considering the 350 point Defender described on Champions Universe?

I don't know RAW but a solution might be giving Defender's armor the same EGO as Defender's INT, using eventual power defense as ego defense, might do?

[DasBroot]

With Defender in particular I'd probably only let them mess with the most automated/ computer assisted functions.  In my mind  that would be the weapons array (I don't think he's manually switching weapon settings on the gauntlets as a 0 phase action) and communications.

 

That's kind of the problem with cyberkinisis in Champions, though - it's very GM heavy.

 

Technically having machine class mind should only let you control something that has a mind (like an AI)  - a regular telepath can't (or shouldn't be able to - your mileage may vary) mind control a persons' autonomous systems (he can't mind control the heart into stopping beating) so why should a cyberkineticist be able to mind control a car into starting and driving around even if they could get the onboard computer (though we're getting closer to that every day) ? Or make a machine gun mounted on the roll bar of a jeep fire?

 

Yet that's exactly the effect players want and expect when they make a machine controller concept - they want to make the toaster be able to turn on, reboot a computer, take over an ATM, read people's email on their iphones.  It's the entire point.

 

In my opinion the 'Maximum Overdrive' effect is... Transform Inanimate Object into Sentient Object.  This gives it a mind and an ego score that the player could then exploit.  It's messy, though.  So very messy. Why would transforming the computer allow the new transformed computer to have access to the hard drives, etc..

[eepjr24]

Yeah, I go with "model the power from special effect", not vice versa. There are very few machine class minds out there. As a GM, if you have allowed the concept, you need to figure out who and what it affects and how. Personally, I tend to go more the route of a VPP with the limitation "Control of machinery with primarily chip based circuitry". Then the player can run through a list of powers that they commonly keep in it and model others to switch out as needed (via "program modules" or whatever their schtick is). Common ones are TK, PD based blasts, Clairsentience, Detects, Invisibility to cameras, etc.

 

They also generally take some powers out of the VPP, like an RKA versus chip based circuitry, usually penetrating and IPE.

 

This all assumes that the world is not CyberPunk, where the whole thing is handled differently (mostly with XDM and skills)

 

- E

[Surrealone]

He asked if Defender's armor has electronic circuits or processors he can control and my answer was "Maybe, I'll tell you next week"

You actually tell your players this when they ask ... rather than making their characters buy/use senses to detect such things ... or simply try something on the target to find out?  Wow, you're an easy GM!

[Ninja-Bear]

One of the characters in my gaming group is a cyberkineticist and about to face Defender is a 8friendly) combat. He has bought a multipower that includes ego attacks, telepathy, mind control, mind scan etc. for the machine class of minds.

He asked if Defender's armor has electronic circuits or processors he can control and my answer was "Maybe, I'll tell you next week"

How would you handle such a combat, considering the 350 point Defender described on Champions Universe?

I don't know RAW but a solution might be giving Defender's armor the same EGO as Defender's INT, using eventual power defense as ego defense, might do?

If going with mind control then I would do something similar to PRE and undead bought as automaton and guve the armour perhaps a -0 lim : affected by cyberkinesis and give it 10 EGO.

[Ndreare]

Normally I see builds like this with a TK only versus technology built into the multi-power. The TK works as an effective grab or just like strength for all those things like s=toasters and cars (which is exactly what the play has in mind 99% of the time when designing the power.

As a GM I would allow him to reallocate 4 points into a multipower slot of TK -1 only to control machines. 

[Grond]

You actually tell your players this when they ask ... rather than making their characters buy/use senses to detect such things ... or simply try something on the target to find out?  Wow, you're an easy GM!

He's a new player and not experienced with Hero at all, he asked me how to handle such a power and I told him I needed a week out to think about the best build. So basically I haven't given him anything - yet.

[Surrealone]

^^^  Ok, that makes more sense!

[Ndreare]

I have found one way to guarantee a player will not play a system again is to follow the rules so strictly during their first few games that their character cannot do the basic stuff they expect.

If it is a first time player all the way around they may just abandon the hobby altogether.

 

I had pathfinder experience like that and it is one of the reasons I hate d20 styles games.

[Surrealone]

True enough.  However, in this case, the player can certainly have the character TRY it.  The outcome of the dice will likely have some say in the matter.  i.e. If the effect roll is well above average, perhaps the probability 'gods' just gave the GM the mandate he needs.  If, on the other hand, the player wimps out when throwing the dice -- then it may all be moot.

[Mister E]

I don't know RAW but a solution might be giving Defender's armor the same EGO as Defender's INT...

This.

[Beast]

transform major to take over his armor(rewriting the software)
mind control if there is an AI running things

[Beast]

in 5th ed int and ego have different costs
Int is 1per 1
ego is 1 per 2
giving the armor the same amount of points as Defender spent on Int and divide by 2 for ego

 

 

How would you handle such a combat, considering the 350 point Defender described on Champions Universe?

I don't know RAW but a solution might be giving Defender's armor the same EGO as Defender's INT, using eventual power defense as ego defense, might do?

[BhelliomRahl]

If you read the Cyberkinesis rules in APG1 p.70 it gives details on calculating the effective Int of a characters Focus which Defender's Power Armor is.  I do not have time to do the math but the effective Int is 1/5 of the AP of the Armors highest costing power and +1 for each additional power the focus uses and either + 50% or 5 which ever is less due to the focus being inaccessible.

 

To be honest though with a new player I would hand wave some of the rules.  This fight is some friendly sparring so make the target a little over an average roll for his abilities so he has a fair chance.  If he fails by a little he is only able to disable some of Defenders systems.  Even if you let him take control for a while Defender will be fighting to regain it.

 

The important thing is that you all enjoy the game, do not let the rules get in the way, they are only suggestions anyways.  Another important thing is that you are consistent in what rules you use, as this ruling will set presidency for the rest of the game.