Simon

That skips over the ability to go broad or narrow ... that's my general complaint: Hero does a decebt job describing Skills, it does a poor job describing how to set up a Skill System for your game.

 

In one game PS: Blacksmith may be all you ever need to make and repair weapons.

 

In another game PS: Blacksmith itself may be inappropriate and you have to buy exactly what you're good at: Weaponsmith: Common Melee Weapons & Weaponsmith: Common Firearms.

 

A third campaign might decide that just Weaponsmith itself will cover making any and all weapons, master of arms style.

 

Yes, it's more fiddly tool-kitting BS, but that's the core of the System. Individual campaign books should nail down exactly the kind of granularity the campaign calls for (or enterprising groups can replace it with their comfort level: super detailed or super broad).

I understand the concern.  Really.  But now flip it on its head: how often have you had that come up in a campaign in a meaningful way?

If the campaign is meant to get down to the nitty-gritty level of "you have training as a blacksmith, but that guy has training as a blacksmith and a metallurgist...so you're not going to be able to do what he does" that makes perfect sense...and is something that you know about during character creation.  So you define your character appropriately.  During gameplay, it's already known that the character that is defined as having both metallurgical and blacksmithing knowledge is going to be better suited for certain tasks.  

You don't need to have an explicit list of skills to define all areas of knowledge in order to accomplish that.  In fact, the explicit list of skills detracts from that very idea and gets you bogged down in the morass of what combination of skills to buy to represent a character that is a skilled blacksmith with metallurgical knowledge vs. just buying a skill of "Modern Blacksmith" and agreeing with the GM on what that means/entails.

If you want a character that has practiced a variety of trades, then purchase multiple skills to represent that -- one per trade.

If you want a character that can easily learn new trades, then purchase multiple skills to represent the trades that the character has already learned and a "skill enhancer" to represent their ability to quickly/easily pick up a new one for character growth.

Again, the long/detailed skill listing does nothing for gameplay from what I've seen - it just complicates character creation and detracts from storytelling during the game.

I still fail to see how that adds to either gameplay or storytelling.

If you have a remarkably granular system with a brilliantly designed "fold up" structure so that you can pick just how fine-grained you want to go on any given skill...I don't see that helping you at all.  Quite the contrary, as it comes across as an attempt at a deterministic system for skills, which leads to things like "I know that it makes sense for your character with PS: Blacksmithing to be able to forge a sword, but you didn't purchase Weaponsmith, so you just can't seem to do it. If the system had intended for PS: Blacksmithing to cover making swords, they wouldn't have put in that other skill, now would they?"

In gameplay, you're looking at making the characters believable and playable...and overall to tell a good story that entertains the players (and GM).  Define what a given character does conceptually (i.e. "he's a doctor" or, for more specific campaigns, "he's a maxillofacial surgeon") and leave it at that. If you're worried about balance (and I have RARELY seen skills be unbalancing in the slightest), then have the GM place a premium on skills that are likely to be of significant use in the campaign and a discount on skills that are unlikely to come up (e.g. "There's not going to be too much call or opportunity for a potter in this campaign....but the forensic examiner is going to be called upon quite a bit.").

Even in those campaigns that are highly skill-focused, I think you're better off having one character take a skill that they call "Oncologist" and another take a skill that they call "Cardiac Specialist".  The GM decides in a given situation if a skill roll is needed and, likewise, if the oncologist or the cardiac specialist would be particularly suited to it (or inept at it).  MUCH better (IMO) than saying "I know that it makes sense for the cardiac specialist to be able to tell a lot about a patient's health from their pulse, but you didn't buy SS: Pulse Reading").  

The level of granularity present in the skill system is one of the biggest detractors from the system (and storytelling) in my experience.

A physician would ideally have Paramedics, but also PS: Physician (or whatever the individual's specialty is) to make correct diagnoses and treat ailments, and SS: Medicine (or another specialty) to understand the science behind it all.

That's actually part of the problem that I (personally) have with the whole Skill system -- it's WAY too complex and granular.  You explain exactly that to a new player and their eyes glass over before you've finished the reasoning behind "PS: Physician" -- and they've likely moved on to a different system.

"My character is a physician" -- great, take a generic skill called "Physician" with the roll representing how good of a physician your character is.  That's it.  When a situation comes up in-game that may test your character's skill (someone in need of immediate care, medical knowledge, etc.), you make your roll.

"My character is an EMT" -- great, take a generic skill called "EMT"  with the roll representing how good of an EMT your character is.  That's it.  If there's a situation where either the EMT or the Physician could apply their knowledge, the GM can decide on any bonuses or negatives as appropriate (e.g. the EMT is likely better at shock trauma treatment and stabilizing a patient than the physician is...whereas the physician is better at more specific or longer term treatments)

For the amount of impact that Skills have on a campaign and general in-game playtime vs. combat, they're vastly over-complicated (again, IMO).  If you happen to be involved in one of the rare campaigns which are more skill-focused (I prefer these, personally), the focus on skills means that the campaign is much more story-oriented...making the mechanics of less importance than the story itself, which again should move you away from a complicated, granular skill system and towards one that allows for easier, more seamless storytelling.

What happens when you are moderated? I'm wondering what that is. I get the idea around banned. Fairly intuitive really ("sent to Chile" has been on many board rules).

 

Are your posts reviewed ahead of time? Who does that (mods, Simon)? Is this permanent or for a fixed time?

 

Hadn't heard that one before.

Your posts are reviewed by a moderator prior to being viewable by the public.

And....Markdoc will now be joining the ranks of moderated users.  

Consider this a warning for all: if you don't see what's wrong with his post, I would STRONGLY suggest that you not participate in this thread.

I AM a moderator.

Actually, yes.  Yes, you are.

You'll have 24 hours from now to apologize for taking things WAY too far in your posting style and addressing the posters with thinly veiled threats.  What happens after that if you don't? You no longer to get take part in these forums.

Quick question: Where do you come down on hypotheticals? The classic "If this happens what do you think the effect will be?" kind of question? By their very nature they would not be fact based but there are some topics that could make for a lively, friendly discussion when it comes to hypothetical questions. Just wanted to check before posting one as I've no wish to run afoul of the rules. Thanks.

See rule 4.

OK...it's unlikely that we'll be able to get away without any political discussion taking place in the forums (despite the fact that the forums are for an RPG and there are plenty of other arenas for political discourse) -- so we're going to make a dedicated spot for them to take place.  With rules that will be followed.

Before I get into the rules, a little bit about self-policing.  You guys are a good group.  I'm assuming that, political differences aside, you'd like to keep each other around.  So you're going to be the first level of checks that will take place.  This is the ONLY US political discussion thread that is going to be around.  If you see someone start another thread for politics, or if you see another thread head that direction, it's in your best interest to shut it down quickly.  Once I get wind of it, the thread originator (or poster who diverted the thread) will be moderated or banned from the forums (depending on the nature of the post). No arguments, and no discussions.

No, I'm not going to sticky this thread. No I'm not going to make a general announcement on the rules.  The rules are largely unchanged from the general rules of the forum -- ensuring that others are up to speed and don't unintentionally violate them is on you.  Talk to them before I do.

Now, onto the rules for this thread:

1. I will be monitoring this thread heavily. Email notifications, reading along as time allows, etc. I don't give warnings -- if you fail to follow the rules, you will be moderated or banned outright.  If this bothers you, I would suggest NOT participating in this thread.  Find any of the plethora of other areas of the interwebs for your political discussions.

2. Lies or half-truths which are determined to be intentionally communicated on your part will not be tolerated.  You present the facts. If you're not sure of the facts, then you don't post.  If you want to post something that you saw and agree with, you will want to make sure you do your due diligence and research it first to ensure that you are not passing along lies and/or half-truths which happen to be in line with your political view. 

3. Attacking of other forum members is subject to immediate banning.  Don't like what someone has to say? Great! Post a factually accurate counter point to their argument and make your case.  Discuss the topic, not the poster.

4. This thread is meant to be a place where ADULTS can have a SANE, RATIONAL discussion of politics. Posts which are viewed to be in violation of this concept will not be tolerated.  Yes, this is a very general rule -- use your brain and interpret it to the best of your ability. If you feel that this makes it difficult to know where the "line" is and that you may accidentally cross it, then I would strongly advise that you not come anywhere near the line. If this means that you are uncomfortable posting in this thread for fear of crossing an arbitrary line, I would refer you to rule 1.

And....Shiva13 is now going to be moderated for a while. 

Avoid personal attacks, people -- this isn't difficult.

That means that Java and HD are working on your system -- it's just your system's configuration that is preventing you from double-clicking the application to launch it.

The instructions at the start of this thread will attempt to correct the file associations on your system (the erroneous configuration).

That's likely your issue, then.

You'll need to do one of two things:

1. Follow the instructions at the start of this thread to attempt to correct the file associations on your system.

2. Open a command prompt, cd to the directory that you've unpacked HD into, and type the following:

javaw -jar HD6.jar

How (exactly) are you trying "to open with Java and javaw"?

You need to provide specifics if you want any help.  

Let's start with basics:

1. What are the contents of the directory that you're looking to run HD from (file listing)?

2. What (exactly) are you doing when you "try to run the .jar file with javaw"?

3. What happens when you double-click on HD6.jar?

No worries -- most likely the problem is with the file association.  You'll want to make sure that the path listed in the ftype output is correct.  Uninstalling and re-installing Java should have fixed it, but you can always use the directions in the initial post of this thread to set it manually.

if you cd into the HeroDesigner directory ("cd \Users\[your username]\Documents\HeroDesigner") and enter what I listed above, you can skip over all of the file associations that your system seems to not have correct.

Opening up IE is new...

Let's try verifying the Java installation:

Open a command prompt, cd to the directory that you unzipped HD into (where is that, by the way?) and then enter

java -jar HD6.jar

Insult? Someone is a bit too touchy now. Considering your very first comment since coming back had an actual insult in it and my only reply to you was a joke about your dismissive comment about a whole franchise, excuse me for not taking you more seriously on this. Your comment was premature because your whole opinion about the tanking of the DC franchise is based solely on one (1) movie. It also lacks strength because ot fails to define what qualifies for success or failure.

 

If you don't want to have your opinions read, judged and responded to, I think you are in the wrong medium. And this is especially true when you come in being negative about a product.

 

And as a follow up, GA, I don't recall you and I ever having a beef, so where is all of this springing from in the first place?

 

Soar.

Hm.  Let's try it this way and see if we get better results:

BACK OFF.  Now.

If you cannot keep the conversation civil and discussing the topic rather than the posters, you will not be involved in the conversation.  Clear?

Information on what problems you're having would help... What you're doing, what's happening, etc.

You've likely messed it up more at this point by pointing to the wrong directory on your system for .jar files.  Enter the following to take things back to where they were when you started:
 

ftype jarfile="C:\Program Files (x86)\Java\jre1.8.0_66\bin\javaw.exe" -jar "%1" %*

If HD is starting (giving the loading image) then your problem is not with file associations.  Create a new thread and post the contents of the trace.log file from the directory that you installed (unzipped) the HD download into.

Not entirely sure what you're posting...looks like you had a valid file association in the first command (ftype | find "jarfile") which you then changed in the second command...likely to an invalid path on your system.

If you're looking for help, you may want to start by stating what the problem is and NOT blindly executing commands on your system without paying attention to the instructions included with them.

Do NOT extract HD6.jar.  This is explained in the download instructions and elsewhere.  HD6.jar is the executable for HD. You are going to want to delete everything and start from scratch if you unpacked HD6.jar.

If you want help, you're going to need to provide information specified in this thread.  Specifically:

1. The output of

java -version

2. The output of 

ftype | find "jarfile"

3. The directory that you have unpacked HeroDesigner.zip into (the directory that contains HD6.jar).  

If you like, sure - a batch file will essentially do the same thing as the file association.  If you want to avoid the batch file route (for whatever reason), you'll need to figure out what's wrong with the permissions on your system that are preventing the file association from firing (or causing it to error out)

Well, first you're going to want to get Java fully installed on your system -- it's not part of the system path settings (which is why just typing "java" at the command line gave you that error message).  Easiest way is to uninstall all copies of Java from your system and reinstall from http://www.java.com

Once you've done that, try just double-clicking on HD6.jar -- the reinstall may fix the issue you're having.

If you're still having problems, repeat the above steps to ensure that java is in your path and then enter the following from a command prompt after cd-ing to the directory that you unpacked HD into (the directory that has HD6.jar):

javaw -jar HD6.jar

Damn, Aside from swearing once or twice, he made some rather salient points (some of which weren't refuted all that well).

More than once or twice...and add in multiple personal attacks on other posters.

Note: the most egregious of his posts were deleted.

And...someone is done here.

Jackalope will no longer be joining us on these forums.