bwdemon

Re: Re-Imaged Hero(ines) First off, I apologize for taking quite so long. My studying got the better of me and I completely forgot about it. Second, this is a very hard pick for me. I like both of the creations a lot, enough that both deserve rep and a chance at picking the next name (and perhaps use in future games). Since David has already won, though, I'm going to go with Sundog as the winner here and let him pick the next name.

Re: Suggestions for any campaigns? There was this Dr. Who thread in the Space Hero section... http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46244 I'm a little confused by the "examples from your current campaigns" language. Do you want characters, settings, or something else? Frankly, I'd recommend the Champions setting using Millenium City for the location and Conquerors, Killers, and Crooks for antagonists. Have the players make their own characters on 350pts and have some fun.

Re: Point Efficiency vs. Concept I agree that this character could step on toes in a team game and might have defenses that are too high. I'm very leery of damage reduction outside of the context of invulnerability to one's own SFX (e.g. fire energy projector has 75% damage reduction v. fire attacks). Plus, with his weapon choices, he may be too much of a killer in a lot of cases. I'm fine with the fake focus thing, though. Somewhat similarly, I tend toward giving my energy projector characters armor of some sort or another. Unless I can justify a force field with the SFX in question, then the character wears OIF body armor to get the requisite level of defense.

Re: Miami Vice Somewhere, there's a paper or book on Miami Vice as Film Noir for the 80's. I never thought about it at the time, but that was exactly correct. More attention was placed on flashy things (fashion, cars, homes, etc.), but the basic elements remained. Those kinds of stories are timeless in a way, requiring only minor changes in setting and subject matter to retain viability for a modern audience. I loved the television show as a kid. Admittedly, I even catch the occasional episode on the Sleuth channel today. I definitely plan on seeing the movie.

Re: Original I have to post the whole thing? I don't even have him statted out, yet! He'd be essentially a competent normal that gets possessed by deceased heroes of the past whenever their powers are needed (he has no control over when or to whom he changes). I waffle between several names, including "Tribute" and "Spirit," but I've yet to settle on anything. Power structure requires an Uncontrolled Multiform (4096 forms?), so I can emulate the disadvantages of the possessing spirit easily and throughout the duration of an entire campaign. His appearance doesn't change at all when possessed. I can't decide whether to have him be a passenger in his own body when possessed or whether the possessing spirit is a passenger. Maybe I can find some way to model both being possibilities...

Re: WWYD if you could recieve ONE super power Full Clairsentience with retrocognition. It would be nice to know next week's lottery numbers or the winner of next year's Super Bowl, but I'd like to know the objective truth about a lot of things and this would make it easy.

Re: Thoughts on the Speed Zone Basically, I'm just looking to take this to a more natural progression without allowing strong deviations. Some solutions I'd offer to combat the problem include... 1. Eliminate the +1/4 and +1/2 advantages for reduced entry time. This is just not worth it except for the 22pt version. Applied to the 22pt version, a 33pt use of the power exceeds the capabilities of a 52pt use of the power. 2. Only allow the "1 Turn" version of the power. Again, we don't want the 22pt version and the 52pt version to be equal in benefit. Likewise, the power gets more more efficient as you move up the time chart from the "1 Turn" ideal. To prevent abuses at either side while properly recognizing the value of the power, the "1 Turn" version should be the only version available. I guess I don't like the fact that one character can spend longer in the SZ than another, resulting in many more actions, while perceiving and moving slower within the SZ, solely by virtue of being able to spend more time in the SZ. In the grand scheme of things, everybody who enters the SZ spends 1 second there. If I'm perceiving and moving slower than another character, I shouldn't get more actions because I am spending the same amount of time in there when we're both spending 1 second in there. If I'm not really spending the same amount of time in there (as the rules state) and I'm moving faster, then I should have to pay for equivalently faster senses, not benefit from slower senses by paying less for the whole package.

Re: Equillibrium via Dark Champions As much as I hate to say this, wouldn't the Speed Zone be a good way to handle the gun kata on a really powerful level? Another option from the powered side of things might include an AOE Radius naked advantage for up to 3d6+1 RKA, no range, selective, each target uses one charge. The standard ranged martial arts rules ("Zen Riflery") would be a given, of course, regardless of whether you wanted to work portions of it as a skill or a power.

Re: Greatest Post-Apoc Film of All Time V for Vendetta, 28 Days Later (important to include the "Later" or else it's a Sandra Bullock movie), Equilibrium, the Matrix Trilogy... Resident Evil 1 & 2 (though they are a bit too limited in scope when it comes to the apocalyse part)... Aeon Flux (not as bad as I thought it'd be)... Ultraviolet (haven't seen it, but it seems to fit the mark)... Reign of Fire... There are plenty of movies out there that seem to fit the bill.

Re: Thoughts on the Speed Zone See above for examples of the lower point cost. One character does twelve actions and spends more than another character who does fifty-nine actions. Plus, you don't have to spend as much on the Speed Perception power if you go lower SPD with longer time in the SZ, which offers a significant cost benefit. Example... Character #1: ETSZ (1 Turn, 52pts) + Attospeed (12 SPD, 10pts) + Attospeed Perception (normal sight only, 54pts) + SZ Sight (10pts) + SZ Touch (20 STR, 10pts) = 136pts for 11 Actions. Character #2: ETSZ (1 Minute, 82pts) + Microspeed (4 SPD, 2pts) + Microspeed Perception (normal sight only, 18pts) + SZ Sight (10pts) + SZ Touch (20 STR, 10pts) = 122pts for 19 Actions.

Re: Thoughts on the Speed Zone If both speedsters are able to enter on the same phase (fairly likely) and both have ETSZ (not so likely), then both have their standard DCV/OCV and abilities while in the SZ as against each other. Characters with ETSZ acting on the same phase can choose to activate ETSZ when the first character does. Then they stay there until they all drop out, one by one, as determined by the amount of time they can spend in the SZ. At that point, anyone still remaining in would get to attack the other at DCV 0. Since the character remaining would be taking advantage of the already-broken imbalances in the power (e.g. taking the 82pt level and a little additional SPD for hordes of actions), they're getting even more powerful for their lower point cost.

Re: Thoughts on the Speed Zone You get higher numbers by spending more time in the SZ. The 82pt ETSZ allows you to spend a full minute. For 112pts, you can spend five minutes. Even at lower SPDs, this translates into significantly more actions. In fact, it is cheaper still, because you don't have to spend quite as much on perception powers.

Re: Battletech Mecha First Loves, Favourites, and just plain silly.

Re: Thoughts on the Speed Zone Some cost-benefit imbalance examples, dealing strictly with the cost of ETSZ: 22pts to do one phase worth of actions 33pts to do two phases worth of actions 52pts to do one phase worth of actions 54pts to do three phases worth of actions 56pts to do five phases worth of actions 58pts to do seven phases worth of actions 60pts to do nine phases worth of actions 62pts to do eleven phases worth of actions 78pts to do two phases worth of actions 81pts to do four phases worth of actions 82pts to do nine phases worth of actions 84pts to do six phases worth of actions 84pts to do nineteen phases worth of actions 86pts to do twenty-nine phases worth of actions 87pts to do eight phases worth of actions 88pts to do thirty-nine phases worth of actions 90pts to do ten phases worth of actions 90pts to do forty-nine phases worth of actions 92pts to do fifty-nine phases worth of actions 93pts to do twelve phases worth of actions

Re: Countering the Speed Zone The first line of defense, as always, is the GM. There is a "STOP" at the top of the power description and all powers are at the GM's discretion. If it is inappropriate for the game, then that's it. After that, you have the inherent issues of point cost and endurance cost. Point cost is kind of harsh until you get to around 120pts spent on the power and its associated powers, then it becomes far too efficient. The ability to cause damage to items outside the SZ can get very costly, too. From the END side of things, you have to spend for ETSZ every subjective phase, plus movement every subjective phase, plus STR use every subjective phase. It can add up very quickly. Of course, a quick +1/2 advantage all around makes END costs moot, but that adds to the point cost side of things, too. The inherent costs aside, your next defense is your... defense? I could've said that better. Anyway, ETSZ can crush characters that rely on high DCV, but lack PD (e.g. martial artists, other speedsters). However, a 4d6 attack on a character with a 25 PD just isn't going to do anything and every DC over your base STR damage costs that much more. If the speedster is willing to spend those points, though, then he can cause significant damage and all but guarantee a hit. Then you go to active defenses, which include things like the force wall, SZ minions, Aid SZL, and more. These require some forethought and are tailored specifically to counter one power on one type of character, but they are important if you are going to allow the power in your game. On a side note, I'm really disappointed that you can buy a better version of this power for 33pts than you can for 52pts, because that throws the characteristic balance of the HERO System out of whack. If you focus less on SPD in the SZ and more on time spent in the SZ, then the power becomes even more imbalanced. That's what makes me most leery about the power.

Re: Thoughts on the Speed Zone Perhaps because of the cost-benefit imbalance and the fact that HERO tries to be a balanced system?

Re: Thoughts on the Speed Zone There you go, then. For 33pts, you can exceed the capabilities of someone who spent 52pts on the exact same power. I had hoped not to see this sort of blantant imbalance in the HERO System...

Re: Thoughts on the Speed Zone I don't believe the 22pt version works like the others. There is no point to buying the quick entry advantage on the 22pt version, since it seems to be assumed as part of the power description. Reducing entry time has no effect, since you are only there for a single phase anyway and you get that single phase worth of Actions. So, the 22pt version is functionally equivalent to the 52pt version (assuming no increased subjective SPD or reduced entry time on the 52pt version), except for the subjective time spent in the SZ. You get the same number of actions either way.

Re: Character Creation Challenge: Horror Speedster Suppress Running 2d6, IPE (defined as your target stumbling, tripping, twisting ankles, running into stuck doors, having to dodge falling things, etc.). As long as the character keeps spending END, the effects are maintained, so it's long-lasting, as well. Total Cost = 20pts.

Re: Countering the Speed Zone Agreed. The word "ambush" just has a nasty feel to it that I prefer to avoid, because I tend to associate it with the gunshot from afar and similar things.

Re: Thoughts on the Speed Zone With the 22pt version, you just get 1 phase. You don't have to buy the half-phase or 0 phase entry modifier. All you get is that single phase in the SZ to do with as you please, though, so any SPD enhancement has no effect on the number of actions you take while in the SZ. With the 52pt version, you get 1 turn. Without anything else (e.g. SZL increase, entry time reduction), that means you'll have a single phase in the SZ to do with as you please. This sucks, but it's really cheap to buy additional actions. So, unfortunately, the 22pt and 52pt levels are exactly the same, absent any additions to the 52pt level. However, the two are functionally equal at this point and the 22pt version cannot be better. At least, this is how I understand it.

Re: Countering the Speed Zone Yeah, but an (effective) ambush is one of those things I try to avoid. Unless the story calls for it, it never feels right to do that to any character. Instead, I like to tailor certain abilities and effects to the weaknesses of the characters as needed. For example, instead of just having the villain shoot the hero with a high power rifle from a mile away while the hero is drinking coffee and unaware, I'd rather have the villain drop a gas grenade with seemingly no effect at the time. Then, when someone tries to use a power it doesn't work quite as planned. In this case, the speedster would move too fast to effectively use the SZ. It's a good, intelligent defense for the villain that puts the PC in a position they didn't see coming - all without having to resort to really cheap tactics.

Re: Thoughts on the Speed Zone Something that may not be understood correctly is the difference between the 22pt and 52pt levels. Some of the sample characters posted appear to ignore a critical distinction. The 22pt level expressly limits you to one phase in the SZ. That's it. You can't buy the 22pt ETSZ and then increase the SZ level (SZL) to get more than one phase worth of actions. The 52pt level gives you a full turn in the SZ, which allows you to use the additional SPD for additional actions. Technically, the additional SPD would have a minor effect on the 22pt ETSZ: you'd be able to move earlier than someone else in the SZ who had a slower SZL.

Re: Countering the Speed Zone Here's a thought... use Aid to increase the speed zone level of the speedster. A mere 3d6 would generally be enough to put move from Millispeed to Attospeed. Assuming they bought only as much speed perception as necessary, they wouldn't be able to see in the speed zone or properly act within it.

Re: Thoughts on the Speed Zone In theory, in a very-high powered campaign, the Speed Zone could get ridiculous. In a standard 350pt game (and anything less, of course) its effects would be mitigated by the costs involved. The lowest cost for the Speed Zone is... Enter the Speed Zone; Basic; Total Cost = 22pts Speed Perception; Millispeed; Normal Vision Only; Total Cost = 9pts Speed Zone Sight; Total Cost = 10pts Speed Zone Touch; 20 STR; Total Cost = 10pts Total Speed Zone Investment = 51pts Either the 22pt and 52pt allow the same number of actions (assuming Millispeed) or the 22pt version doesn't allow any actions at all, because your first phase is always taken up with entering the SZ. By the wording of the power on page 257, I'm inclined to think that both get one effective action (assuming no other changes). Yikes. Thankfully, it's easy enough to buy some extra SPD in the SZ. Bumping it up to Microspeed gives you three complete actions (1 used to enter the SZ) and costs a pittance of 2pts. However, you need to use at least the 52pt version of the SZ, so you're up to 54pts there. Then you have to pay extra for the sensory portion, which changes Perception to 18pts. The total point cost is now 92pts. It costs 5 END to enter + movement + (up to) 3 for each use of STR. What do you get for those 92pts? You get three extra actions (could just buy 3 SPD for 30pts at no END cost). You get to attack targets at 0 DCV (or buy 6 levels in HTH Combat for 30pts, which generally combine with natural OCV to get essentially the same effect for no END cost). The only real advantage is that you get all three of those actions at once. You'd spend 92pts for that? You can't even cause more than 4d6 damage without some outside effect in play or additional cost. Okay, how about something faster? Make it Attospeed (1 Turn) and you spend 62pts on the base power and 54pts on perception. That takes you up to a total cost of 136pts. Now you get 11 extra actions in the SZ. Again, you're spending a LOT of points here and the benefits are solid, but lower damage is still an issue. So where's the problem? If you choose to go slower (Microspeed), but spend more time in the SZ (1 minute) you get a total of 19 extra actions for 84pts + 18pts + 10pts + 10pts = 122pts. For another 30pts (taking it up to 5 minutes), you can get 99 extra actions for entering the SZ. The breaking point for the power lies in how it handles the time chart, because it becomes progressively more efficient (point-wise) to spend longer in the SZ. My advice to GMs handling this power is to never let it go beyond the "1 Turn" mark. The costs involved in using the power up to that point are appropriate for the gains realized and, in some cases, too high.