Spence

Are you using HERO Designer?
 
If you're not, the easiest solution is to step back an edition or two and reinstate "Transfer."
 
 

I've been recording it and am a couple episodes behind.  I was impressed that it was trying to avoid the CW teen angst trap, an then realized it wasn't a CW show. 
 
I should have realized it was canceled, after all I was enjoying it....

Ha!
 
Thanks, but that's not actually how I meant "that's out now."
 
I have intentionally avoided posting builds and my actual house rukes _for years_ for reasons that, in another thread, I have been being convinced arent valid anymore (well, I can think of two reasons that still exist, but they are in and out as the mood strikes them).
 
"That," in 'that's out now" refers to posting my own house rules; not frustration with the topic.  (That _particular_ 'that' is still bottled up nice and safe, deep inside next to the heart attacks, hair loss,  and shortness of breath, as it should be in any reasonable adult male.      )
 

Too bad there isn't a mic drop emoji
 
 

I can't remember a specific instance, but Clark's been in fires, explosions, etc.  It doesn't have to be a fight;  he can be in a damaging situation at any time.
Heck, to keep it topical...Superman is immune to disease.  Clark can catch Covid-19.
Clark has also used his super-speed to vanish then reappear as Superman.
Clark knows everything Superman knows, and vice versa...so Clark can investigate under the radar in ways Superman never can.
So it does matter.  
 
I think the single biggest 'mistake' in 6E is Mulitform...even in its more basic forms.  As Duke noted, it's just begging for a tree-like spread.  Even if they're all the same base cost, altho it gets easier with higher-level characters.  But, say you have 400 points.  85 points for 4, 400 point variants...but that's before limitations.  How about Concentration and Extra Segment to activate?  There's a half limit that shouldn't be too much of a hassle.  Now it's 57 points.  So my base form is on 343.  I can build a nice martial artist type, with very good infiltration or intel-gathering skills as well.  Then a desolid form to facilitate infiltration.  Then, let's go with a blaster type with flight for the combat form.  And I've got something left for whatever might appeal.  

I could also work on other limitations...how about time limit, 24 hours?  -3/4 on 85 should be 49.  Now I have 351.

And that's not even getting into the worst aspect, where the main form can just drop 200 points to get a 1000 point alternate form.  But, it should be a given...this is something that should never be allowed for PCs, and RARELY used with NPCs.  

Multiform should probably be a STOP power, but IMO the GM has an obligation to say No to obnoxiously rude stuff regardless.
 

It doesn't offend me at all.  It's a game and anyway you want to play it is cool, especially if you enjoy it.  I was just commenting on what I thought was the subject and what to me didn't seem to be a good example. 
 
I try to comment on my opinions of how I see the rules.  I may correct someone on what I am attempting to say about my opinion, but I will never tell someone how they can or cannot play their own game. 

Multiform gives you two or more completely separate forms.  Anything not paid for by a form cannot be used by that form.  That includes skill, contact, perks or anything else.  This is not a matter of one of the forms choosing not to use something they literally cannot use what they have not paid for.  This is not a matter of a character choosing not to use a skill, they cannot use it period.  
 
If one of my players tried buying the skills only in one form then he would forget what those skills gave him when he switched forms.  If Clark Kent has all the investigative skills and they are not on the Superman form her forgets what he figured out when he changes to Superman.  So when Clark figures out where Lex Luther is and turns into Superman, Superman does not know where Lex is and is going to stand around confused.
 
As GM I reserve the right to Veto anything think is inappropriate and a Superman multiform is going to get a big fat NO.  Shazam type character maybe, but again anything that carries over has to be purchased by both forms. 

Absolutely.  Though I am surprised that when they gutted so much to make 6th Ed have everything function separate they didn't jump on removing all the flavor text and just calling it Power Effect 1, Power Effect 2 and so on.  That actually fits the 6th Ed vibe.  
 
PS I play 5th or 4th ed and even though I have the 6th ed hardcopies it just never felt right for me.

Yep, been there or at least similar. 
I actually took a couple year off from the boards.  I came back because there are some people I enjoy having discussions with and I had discovered the ignore function.  8 ignores and my entire experience has returned to great
 
But I have noticed that Hero builds have changed in peoples minds.   The power names were always just tags for a game effect because you had to name them something.  But it has drifted from "determine SFX and end effect that you want to achieve and then use the best game mechanic to build it" to "The power is named X and by golly gee gumbo that is all it can do!!!".  Kind of a reverse where effects and intent is added after picking a mechanic rather than the other way.  And a lot of posters have become pretty vicious about being the one and only truth.  
 
For me, I just browse these days and make an occasional comment when something catches my eye.
I do miss the old boards sometimes. 

Up front:  
 
I am _not_ calling you wrong; I want you especially, and everyone else who might still be following along (we're almost at page 3, when it just becomes a philosophy discussion-- and where I try to bow out, because by page 4, it's a shouting match ) to understand that you are _not_ wrong when you say :
 
3 separate groups: bending light, being transparent, or simply being unnoticed.
 
You're not wrong.
 
 
I want to raise the point, however, that the absolute ultimate in-game mechanical effect of "invisibility" (which I am sorely tempted to rename "unnoticed" ) is that no one knows you were / are still here / there.  You can stand in the corner at any board meeting and no one will know you are there.  You walk straight up to the villain and poke him directly in the Stun and he will do nothing to defend himself (the first time) because he doesn't know you're there.
 
Side effects of no one knowing you're there include no one remembering you were there and you officially have the most terrifying of all evil twins, but I'm getting ahead of myself.
 
I would like to point out that 2 of the 3 three groups to which you referred are by themselves neither Invisibility nor necessary mechanical components of it, but are in fact _special effects_ of / justifications for being invisible.  For example, should a person be able to bend light around himself in such a way that he is edited out of your visual perception, you won't notice he's there, and since you don't notice he's there, you won't remember him being there.  If you are able to become completely transparent, well then you really don't need to bend light at all: people just aren't going see you because they can look right through you.  (and of course, if you can bend light, you can dress like a flamenco dancer and still not be seen).   
 
That leaves "being unnoticed."  Well, that right there-- _that_ is the absolute heart of Invisibility.  No matter how you achieve the result, the result you are after is "no one notices me."  I put forward the idea that-- pedantry and semantics and etymology aside, _within the game mechanics_, "being unnoticeable" is the _single_ definition of Invisible.   How you achieve the state of being unnoticeable is pure SFX for your build.
 
Maybe you bend light.  Maybe you (and your clothes) become perfectly transparent.  Maybe you radiate a constant mental command "you can't see me," causing the target's mind to edit you out of the target's perception and memories of you.
 
I think, at this point, we are all agreed that this is valid (at least this time.  When I dusted off Fade a couple of lifetimes ago, it didn't go so well).
 
So we have the power: Invisibility and the SFX "constant mental command."
 
Now to the rest of the build-- what are the Modifiers-- the Advantages and Limitations?  Which ones are mandated because of the SFX? 
 
Well, the Power rules _require_ "Fringe Effect," which you may want for your character.  But here's a nifty thing that, in today's ever-more-specific rules set you'd have to discuss with your GM, you might consider:  Decide that _your_ Fringe Effect doesn't work with a PER roll, but perhaps an EGO Roll!  You could do this to simulate that those unaffected have "some quality of mind" or "some quality of will power" that doesn't allow you to fully-dominate their subconscious, and their strength of will fights and does not edit you completely, hoping that your conscious mind will pick up on the attack, etc, etc, etc.
Or you could make it an INT roll: you are so self-aware that you realize that _something_ isn't right; something is playing with your mind, and the source of it-- right there!  I swear I saw something!  No; There!   You see where that's going; I'm certain.
 
Of course, the power description also gives you the option to buy off the fringe effect completely; you are free to do that.  Wait-- you've decided that this is a mental power, and that means---
 
 
Nothing.  It doesn't mean a stinkin' thing.  It means you have decided on the special effects for your Invisibility; that's what it means.  You can leave the Fringe Effect based on a PER roll; that is the default.  Let's remember that the power is _not_ "affects light so that when the light is perceived you aren't there," and it is _not_ "the light passes right through me so that there is no image of me transmitted to the senses," and that the power is not "my chameleon abilities are so refined that every cell of my body projects an image of that which is behind me."  The power is "I am unnoticeable."  How you arrive there does _not_ change that, _NOR_ does it mandate _anything_ that you don't want to include in the build.
 
For example: You _could_ use an EGO roll to detect the Fringe Effect.  You don't have to.  You don't even have to have a Fringe.
 
You _could_ allow characters with higher EGO scores or Mental Defense to have some bonus-- some additional chance to detect you.  But never, _ever_ forget that no matter _what_ you picked for your special effect, you are _not_ mandated to choose certain modifiers, _ever_.  If you decided to take a custom Limitation: characters with EGO 15+ / EGO Defense have a +x to their PER roll to notice you, it's because that's how you _want_ the power to work.  It is _not_, and no matter how much you hear to the contrary, it is _never_ mandatory to take certain limitations because "your SFX mandates"-- that's nonsense being spouted by someone who might really believe he understands the difference between mechanics and SFX-- someone who may well have made great strides toward that very understanding, even!-- but as long as he believes that a particular SFX _mandates_ anything, he hasn't gotten there yet.  Either that, or he's reading more into the rules that was ever there.
 
It is absolutely true that your SFX will open up interesting justifications for any modifiers that you may choose, particularly if you a very specific idea of how the power works, but no SFX will _ever_-- both by the source material and by the rules themselves-- _mandate_ anything you don't want.  You bought a 6d6 Energy Blast, AoE: Radius, Fireball?  It will very much work underwater and in outer space unless _you_ decide it doesn't.  "But there's no oxygen in outer space, so it can't work ther--"
"This flame is my righteous and glorious fury.  The flames you see are merely mirrors of my incredible passion.  This fire needs no oxygen!"
 
Don't let someone tell you that "justifiable equals mandate."  That just makes it so much harder for anyone following along to learn to separate mechanics from SFX.
 
 
 

Yep, been there or at least similar. 
I actually took a couple year off from the boards.  I came back because there are some people I enjoy having discussions with and I had discovered the ignore function.  8 ignores and my entire experience has returned to great
 
But I have noticed that Hero builds have changed in peoples minds.   The power names were always just tags for a game effect because you had to name them something.  But it has drifted from "determine SFX and end effect that you want to achieve and then use the best game mechanic to build it" to "The power is named X and by golly gee gumbo that is all it can do!!!".  Kind of a reverse where effects and intent is added after picking a mechanic rather than the other way.  And a lot of posters have become pretty vicious about being the one and only truth.  
 
For me, I just browse these days and make an occasional comment when something catches my eye.
I do miss the old boards sometimes. 

-3/4 for now.  
 
The concept...well, it's not exactly new.  Heck, in D&D there's Psionic Invis.  There's the Star Wars "these aren't the droids you're looking for" taken metaphorically.  David Eddings' Sparhawk books...Flute does this.  "They see us, but their brain doesn't pay any attention to us."  Comics would *rarely* be a source, as I've barely read them in the last 30 years.

As a stand-alone one-thin-book complete game, too.
 
 

None of the above, to be honest, just "horror", as in the genre of fiction known as horror. Not really scary, but themed around the idea of being scary. Giant insects, lots of sudden natural disasters, animal attacks, plants that attack you *like* animals, a man with a huge gun and the face of your father commanding you to face death like a man, and even the unexplained disappearance of a young child from his parents' house while they were away for the night.

For me I have copies/scans of a lot of out of print that I simply cannot find. 
But I also make it a point to always buy a copy if it is out there to be had. 
I prefer physical copies and have far too many RPG related books on my shelf. 
 
I refuse to take a "home scanned" copy of a book that is being actively published that I can buy legally. 
If the book is no longer in print I will look for it on the secondary market.
If I have exhausted all other possibilities I will take what I can find, and if it comes back into publication I'll pick up a copy.  I guess I look at it as balancing the scales.

Absolutely.  Though I am surprised that when they gutted so much to make 6th Ed have everything function separate they didn't jump on removing all the flavor text and just calling it Power Effect 1, Power Effect 2 and so on.  That actually fits the 6th Ed vibe.  
 
PS I play 5th or 4th ed and even though I have the 6th ed hardcopies it just never felt right for me.

Thats a neat thought, Sir.  If you run with it on the inviso base, that could (if you actually want high EGO and EGO Defense to work against the build, you can tack in a custom Limitation that says so.
 
Spence:
 
In regards to the whole "the power is called this, so it must be used for this" thing:
 
We have added new powers, removed old powers, mangkedoowers to dold them into other powers.  Qe have broken the connevtions between characteristics, we have mad CV directly purchaseable, we have replace a characteristic with a die roll and renamed things for thin reasons.  
 
Qe have added skulls and advantages and stunts that we wwere already able to build bevause some people are more willing to interpret broadly than are others and some people are more intuitive than others.
 
But the only cjange I ever thought might be helpful was replacing the names of the "powers" with numbers;
 
Mechanic 1
Mechanic 2
 
Or defensive mechanic 1. Defensive mechanic 2, offwnsive mecjanic 9-   something to actually help people break that connection between ,I"if I want to do x, then I have to use rhe power called 'do x', no matter how poorly it suits the exacr efdect I'm after.

If I had a big staff and plenty of energy, I'd want to put out more time period Champions books like Platinum Age Champions (Sherlock Holmes era basically), Silver Age, Cold War, etc.  Like War Hero, a sourcebook for playing Hero Games at war with sourcebooks for various military eras.  Start with WW2 and move from there to WWI, Korea/Vietnam, Desert Storm, back to previous times like Napoleonic

Well it has been a long while. 
It was basically a % roll under system for skills, but held onto poly die  for damage and stuff.
My TS rulebook is 1980 and TSsi is 87. 
IIRC the differences between editions wasn't as much change as it was cleaning up presentation and rules.  If you plan to play Top Secret skip to the SI version
 
I was pretty stoked when I heard of Top Secret New World Order, and then I got a copy.  They went to a "die step" system like savage worlds with an Action Point system that reminded me of Feng Shui 2.  I never got past the first read through.
 
We found that the James Bond 007 RPG was too clunky for us in play, but the adventures they put out were fantastic, espectially for the 80's.  Maps, handouts and pictures for most everything.  They had a module for several of the movies plus more, their Locations source book included color pictures of the various places (casinos, restaurants, hotels, trains etc.) to augment the maps and illustrations which I still use to today. 
 
To be honest though, I'd mine the setting and story info and use another rule system.  Both games are 80's games and you can tell the heavy wargame influence. 
 

One of the bits in Western Hero are song lyrics at the start of each major section.  This playlist gives all the songs that were used in the book so you can listen to them in context and enjoy the history.

As we head into the long dark winter, be of good cheer, because there is a brand new Explain This., Comics Guys!! episode every other Wednesday. This week, our History of Marvel finally makes it all the way to Fantastic Four #1!  https://explainthis.podbean.com/  dw

One thing to keep in mind with a multiform is that each character is completely separate.  Anything the players wants to use in both forms has to be purchased by both forms.   That by the way goes for skills as well as powers.  To me if a character has a skill in one form and shift to a form that does not also have that skill they don’t get the benefit of that skill.  So if the non-combat form has skills like deduction and knowledge skills to figure out the villains plan they should not get the benefit of those skills once they shift.  
 
When I run a champions game I may require the character to purchase certain skills in both forms.  If both forms are basically the same mind I require them to purchase strictly mental skills in both forms.  For example let’s say you are creating a character like ironman where one form has power armor and the other form is normal.  Both forms should have the scientific skills and knowledge’s.  the Ironman form could lack some skills that the Tony Stark form has if the armor prevents him from using them.  For example armor is bulky enough that it causes problems with fine manipulation I might allow the armor form to skip the electronics and lock picking skills of the unarmored form.  
 
The main thing is to make sure that the players only use what they pay for.   Another way to keep things in check is to not allow either form to go over the campaign limits.  The only difference between the main form and secondary is who pays for the multiform.  In the previous editions of the game the cost of the multiform was always paid by the most expensive.  6th edition changed that, now the cost of multiform can be paid by either form.  
 

I was remiss in not posting some of these earlier in the year. I try and get them into batches of black and white and colour before posting. But I keep the diary up to date.
 
King Creole He could sing but who knew Elvis could also act ? There is a good support cast with Walter Matthau, Dean Jagger, Vic Morrow and Carolyn (Morticia Addams) Jones supporting him. well worth seeing.
 
The Spy Who Came in From The Cold Richard Burton plays Alec Leamas who is station head of West Berlin. After his best agent is killed Leamas id recalled to London to be briefed by Control and Smiley about setting up East Germany's spyhunter chief. The East Germans recruit him after he loses his job and is arrested for assault. The film follows the book an is a much more sober affair than any Bon picture. It is also quite bleak. But well worth it.
 
The Square Ring This is about boxers preparing for a night of bouts. One is a former champion attempting a comeback, one is going to throw his fight, one is punch drunk and another is having his first professional fight. It is a tragic-comic drama piece. Worth a look. It is a British rather than American film.
 
Tread Softly Stranger This is a Diana Dors film where two brothers team up to rob one's workplace in order to cover the debts of one and fraud of the other. Predictably things go wrong and someone dies. But will they get away with it ? 
 
What A Whopper Some friends try to fake a picture of the Loch Ness Monster. A comedy.
 
The Yangtze Incident The film version of how HMS Yangtze came under fire in China and then had to get down river to safety. Flag waving but still very good. Richard Todd plays the officer sent into take over the ship after their senior officers are taken out by shell fire.

While I haven't followed comics much this millennium, I have noticed a resurgence in stories with supers as true heroes, with ideals and principles and a moral compass. Nihilism gets fatiguing after a while, and people start yearning for hope again.   I believe that's also one impetus for the wave of superhero movies we're still riding, which for the most part give us supers as heroes. However, those stories are often more shaded and complicated than the last heroic swing of the pendulum, infused with the awareness of the deconstruction of the genre we got during the Iron Age. I personally think one common designation for this era in comics, the "Steel Age," is apropos for that reason.
 
Of course we have exceptions like Deadpool, Punisher, Blade, Suicide Squad, Jessica Jones. The spectrum of the genre accommodates them, and it's healthy to include them. But they remain outliers in the present day.

I don't collect comics and I really can't recite chapter and verse, but Bats has killed in the comics.  One of those colored newspaper'ery books I got as a teen.  It sticks because it caused a local uproar and I personally thought it fitting to reach back to the original source materials.  It probably was expunged along with many other things along with all the other revisioning that we've seen over the years to the point no one can remember their own names.
One thing I can clearly remember is the panel. 
 
 
My point, which is different.  Is that superheros are not just super, but also heroes.  When set in modern times a hero doesn't indiscriminately kill.  And yet many of the characters that have been wrapped up into the term superhero do just that. 
 
You'd think they would notice that the movies that feature actual heroes are far out banking the ones that showcase non-heros.  Having a non-hero in a movie with heroes still works out, but there is a very noticeable drop for non-hero movies.
 
Heck I even remember "superhero" lists with movies like Last Airbender and Conan on them.  I have always loved the original Conan stories, but he was never ever a hero.
 
Just because comics went down a grim dark "woot everybody's a murderer/addict/enter evil of choice" doesn't mean that everything printed on paper in color is a superhero. 
 
I personally think that that trend is why superheroic RPGs are in the final stages of dying out.  It is difficult for a genre to exist when current examples no longer exist.  No amount of rhetoric or verbal tap dancing can change that.  
 
The Superhero has died as a concept and been replaced by People with Powers.  Murders and horrific monsters to the front of the line please.