dbcowboy

Yes, I agree with the majority of that. The MA receives a huge acceleration initially (the throw) then begins to slow down (negative acceleration) the farther he travels until eventually his speed reaches 0 (at target hex) and he lands. Therefore his velocity at the point he passes the target is (total distance thrown) - (distance currently traveled). He's an example: A Sentinel robot is 10 hexes from Colossus and Wolverine when they begin their Fast-Ball Special (make their coordination roll). Colossus targets a hex 20" past the Sentinel, makes his attack role to hit the hex with Wolverine, succeeds, and launches Wolverine into the air. Wolverine's going to move 20" this phase so his initial velocity is 20". Now, the only reason he stops at 20" is because his velocity at that point is 0" (he lands), so we decided he'd lose 1" of velocity for every hex he flys through the air. Wolvie passes the Sentinel after 10". His velocity at this point is 10" (20"-10"= 10") so that's the speed he uses to calculate dmg from the move by (he of course would use it to increase the dmg of his HKA). Whether or not his move by attack hits, Wolverine continues to fly through the air the remaining 10" to the target hex where he uses his Breakfall to roll and come up into a fighting stance, ready for more. Anyway, that's just the approach we took. Alternatively you could let them use the full distance thrown as their velocity for the dmg, that might be more in line with the way other movement works. It just seemed to us that the guy that gets tossed has little if any control over hit movement so not getting the entire move for the dmg seemed like a decent idea.

This is my first crack at the nerve pinch idea so please forgive me if this approach has been examined and discarded previously. This attack doesn't seem like a normal attack, I don't have the impression that one person would be hurt any more/less based on the amount of stun they have. It acts like an NND but it's effects seem absolute and immediate (unconscious or not at all). What if you treated this more as an entangle with the SFX that the target appears to fall unconscious. The entange could block all sense groups (to simulate the unconscious state). Other advantages like Takes No Damage, Cannot Be Escaped With Teleportation and Reduced Endurance may be appropriate. Actually, maybe you could give it Uncontrolled with an endurance reserve that was based on the target's Con or Ego or something to better represent how stronger individuals could recover (escape) faster than others. For limitations I'm thinking things like No Range, Only Against Humanoids and maybe something like Negated by Successul First Aid or slapping/throwing water on target to simulate waking them up. just some thoughts I had.

Don't own the new Champions, in the past we treated this as a move by, simply requiring Brick to hit target hex with throw, then the duo to succeed in a coordination roll (teamwork skill now) before Martial Artist could make his move by attack. Martial Artist's speed was the distance thrown - distance traveled when passed target. If two characters wanted to specialize in this type of attack, they would have purchased skill levels with any of the following: coordination, move by, range skill levels, throwing as appropriate for the character's role in the attack. We liked the approach because we felt it more accurately accounted for things like range to target, range thrown and, based on those 2, the velocity the MA would have as they passed the target. Maybe more dice rolling than some would like.

Only done an alien invasion of Earth once when I ran a short campaign based on the Oblivion War storyline from the old Elementals comic.

Hmmmm, did the Unbreakable writer attend Southwest Texas State University in 1992? Maybe he read my buddies thesis. (doubt it but anything's possible). This got me to thinking about that thesis, thought you might be interested in the myths my friend identified with Batman. - Myth of the Hero Quest - Myth of the Vigilante - Myth of Regeneration Through Violence (thought it was justification through violence, my mistake) He specifically focused on the Dark Knight Returns storyline for examples to support these ideas. Man, how many people can say that they made it through grad school by reading comics.

Amen. They weren't Shakespear and I won't equate them to Plato but there were some very good, very powerful, very positive stories told in the pages of comic books. When I was in high school, my grandfather would find me reading a comic occasionally and always say, "You're in high school, why are you reading one of them funny-books." I'd generally say something like, "Because the story isn't very funny." Being a teenager I had that whole teen-angst thing going so I probably got mad a lot of the time. A good friend of mine wrote his masters thesis on Batman as a mythic figure for America. He compared the character to older myths such as Beowulf and others and identified the societal morals the character represented (justification through violence was one, I don't remember the rest). Perhaps what once were told around camp-fires, which became dime novels sold weekly in the General Store, that turned into four colored magazines sold across the land will next simply become moving pictures on the large screen. Maybe that's just the continued evolution. If so, it will only be because the people of the society support it and desire it to be so.

Definitely like the Must Be Able to Lift Object limitation better than my approach of just buying up the needed mass. Certainly better reflects what the character could do if they were hit with a Str drain before they tried to throw something. So, for every phase they wind up, they put the endurance spent into powering the flight, right? I like your approach a lot. I was also considering some kind of Limitation to reflect the fact that once the object is released, you can't change it's direction. You wind up for 3 phases and send the tank hurtling 3km over the next 3 phases. Next phase the GM informs you that you've just put in on a collision corse with an inbound 747. Oooops. Unlike normal flight you can't have it turn once released. Is that limiting enough for a -1/4 or just -0? Either way, I still ask the question: Is this unbalancing? Is throwing an object very far unbalancing against characters with low movement rates? I don't see that it is really anything more than a SFX or something occasionally useful (tossing a bomb out of range to save the norms). Haven't come up with a situation when it would be reasonable for anyone other than the GM to toss another character away and then only to give the players a good role-playing situation. If long throws are unbalancing, then consider any large movement power: Phase 1) grab opponent Phase 2) see movement power below: - Swimming, 10" - (1" = 1000km) - "I hear the Marianas Trench is nice this time of year, would you like to see it?" Heck, anywhere on the bottom against an opponent with no life support is gonna be rough, don't need 1" - 1000km advantage. - Flight, 10" - (1" - 1km) - move by on cloud with opponent 3 km straight up, didn't do much dmg to the cloud, see if opponent feel comforted by that when they hit the ground after falling from that height - Running, 10" - (1" - 1km) - same as flight, just run a half move away and release your hold, see how long it takes them to get back - Teleport + x2 mass (so at least one other normal sized person) and some Megascale - pick any of the above, up in the air, out to sea, next town, it's all bad So, just about any character with large movement powers could do these, just because they bought their movement. Don't see that the option to throw things long distances is any difference for the Str a brick bought. Dunno, any of this seem reasonable or am I on crack?

Interviewer: Tick, what exactly can you do? Can you breathe atomic fire? Tick: er, no Interviewer: Can you destroy the earth? Tick: My GOD I hope not! That's where I keep all my stuff!

The situation that comes to mind would be thus: PowerSapper hits MrAid with his 3d6 Str Drain bought with the advantage that the points don't return for 20 minutes. MrAid uses his 3d6 aid powers to boost his Str but without any increased fade time. If MrAid's boost was permenant just because his Str was below it's starting value due to PowerSapper's drain, then without paying for any advantages he's effectively nixed the points PowerSapper spent to lower his drain's fade rate. That just doesn't seem right. Now, here's my question: MrAid boost his Str to the maximum amount (nothing but 6's for 3 phases, it was incredible, wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it, trust me, really). So, Str boosted up 18 points from it's previous value when turn ends. 5 points dissipate (now only +13 Str due to Aid). At his next opportunity is he now able to use his Aid to try to make up those 5 points or must he wait until the entire boosted amount has faded?

hehe, looks like I switched from 5 body to 6 body absorbed and didn't update all the values. sorry, poor proof-reading on my part but thanks for the clarification.

So, say I've got 5d6 Absorption vs. Physical and paid for the +1/2 advantage to allow the absorbed points to got to Str and Con. Now, if I roll 6 body do I?: a) add 5 points to Str and 6 points to Con (for +6 Str/+3 Con) add a combination of Str and Con that totals to 6, so maybe 3 to Str and 3 to Con (for +3 Str/+2 Con or +3 if you round up) While I like option a) it seems a little powerful so not sure I understood correctly.

Well let me just say that I'm not concerned about whether or not the Hulk in Champions can throw a tank as far as he can in the movie. In 40 years of the comic the character hasn't been presented consistently so while one writer might have him juggling tug boats another might show him straining to lift a tractor-trailer for purely dramatic effect. My issue is with the difference between how much characters can lift vs. how far characters can throw. One doubles linearly, the other does not and I can't come up with any reason I feel comfortable with to justify the disparity. Leverage when lifting doesn't do it for me. Two hand's lifting vs. one throwing doesn't fit. I don't care what the distance is, if another character is twice as strong as the first the distance they chunk the same object should be more than just a pittance farther than the first. If a third character is 4x as strong I expect to see that same object land waaaaay the heck out there from where the first person was able to throw it. Now, as far as how to build a power to allow a character to throw something an incredible distance, hmmm, here's one thought I had: Super Throw: Flight 1", Megascale (1"=1km +1/4), Reduced Endurance 0 End(+1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (those were to eliminate need for LOS after toss target), Usable As Attack (x1024 Mass so can toss something as heavy as a tank +3 1/2) - 11 Active Points, Target must be immobilized/unconscious (-1/2), Extra Time Delayed Phase, Only to Activate Persistent Power (gotta wind up for the pitch) (-1/4) - Cost: 6 points Same power but 2" of flight for a 2km throw would cost 13 points. So, for 6 points I can put another character with very little movement 500 hexes away and effectively out of combat and probably unhurt (assuming I'm able to subdue them in the first place). That of course begs the question, if they're subdued, why would I throw them away? If I'm a villain, rather than spend my attack action tossing them away, I think I'd rather hit them again to ensure they're out for the rest of the fight and haul them off to my secret lair for my clever death-trap. If I'm a hero, I think I'd rather hit them again to ensure they're out for the rest of the fight and haul them off to jail. Now, it's an awesome GM tool: Grond lifts the overturned police car above his head and with a roar of unbridled rage sends it hurtling straight up. The screams of the trapped officers fade as the vehicle grows smaller and smaller in the distance. Then it seems to stop shrinking and you realize it's reached it's apex and has begun to plummet back to earth. What do you do? What DO you do? Or maybe a villain drops one of the fallen heroes without life support 1km off shore, forcing the group's speedster to rush to save them from drowning. Either way, no hero's going to do either of these things (that's code against killing, not code against thrilling). Just my 2 cents.

Ah, yeah I think I understand. When I first read the megascale throw I thought 1km = 500 hexes so (using your 26 body above) you could fast-ball someone through roughly 19 buildings (that's not really accounting for space inside the building, it'd be way less than that) if a character had only 1" of megascale throwing. I think what you're saying though is that it'd still only count as 1" of throwing (just with a megascale range) and 1 body would stop it. (it is 1 body/def stops 1" of knockback/movment, right? or am I remembering wrong?) Well, if I got that right, hmmmm, don't think I like it. There's just something very satisfying about putting an opponent through a building.

Tom McCarthy put forth reasons for distance doubling every +10 Str in the original Movie Hulk Throwing thread and I have to agree. I've been playing with the numbers a little bit more since my last post and I like the way they play out when you have distance double every +10 Str (4x as strong). That's for a running throw, say standing doubles at +15 Str and prone at +20. This seems to play better with my idea of comic book superhero physics. The megascale approach is intersting but I'm curious, how would you handle the situation where a character uses a megascale throw to launch an opponent through several buildings? Granted, this might also be a real problem using the alternate formula for throwing outlined above for sufficiently strong characters. I also agree that throwing is as much an issue of skill as strength. For distance I'd treat this as extra levels of Strength, only usable when calculating distance an object is thrown (-1). To actually hit something with what was thrown would be combat skill levels.

I have to agree. I've been playing with the numbers a little bit more since my last post and I like the way they play out when you have distance double every +10 Str (4x as strong). That's for a running throw, standing doubles at +15 Str and prone at +20. This seems to play better with my idea of comic book superhero physics.

After reviewing the throwing table some more, the thing that I find odd is that the amount a character can lift doubles for every 5 pts of Str but the distance a character can throw doubles every (Str*2) pts. That's a big difference in the way they increase.

Re: Movie Hulk Estimated Strength- Hero style I think you're mistaken. If I read the throwing chart right, the distance a character can throw a object (running throw) is 80% of their Str (ie. 25 extra Str = 20" thrown). So, to throw something 304.8 hexes (2000ftx(0.3048m/ft)x(1hex/2m)) takes ~ 380 extra Str. Then add the strength necessary to lift the object in the first place (either 55 or 60 Str depending on whether you round up or down for a 60 ton tank) and you get something like 435 - 440 Str. Course, that's giving him the benefit of a running throw which I think is okay considering he spun the thing around a couple of times to pick up momentum before he actually let go. Somebody check my math, it's been a while.

MorrowProject Game: We planned our infiltration of the city for literally hours. We'd selected to enter the city via the river with scub gear. We'd studied the map, selected our targets and the order we would attack them in. We'd just finished summarizing the attack plan. Player 1 (entirely serious): Ok, so what's the plan? Group: -stunned silence- Short time later.... GM: You're swimming quietly along the bottom of the river when you come to a wall. Player 2: a what!?! -group surfaces- Player 2: Who put this dam here? -2 hours planning our infiltration and no one noticed the dam on the map- Altogether is was a good sign, we only won when things went really wrong.

Superman's still considered the strongest/toughest hero of the lot, the comics/cartoons have simply brought him back down to a range where the character is interesting again. How many of us remember what the comic was like before DC rereleased it and many of their lineups in the mid to late 80's? Ever villian he fought either a) had Kryptonite, used magic or c) had mental powers, because those were the ONLY things left that he was vulnerable to. The stories had become extremely lame and predictable because of it. Now he actually gets hurt once in a while. Occasionally he has to ignore the pain and continue to rise up to meet his opponents. Now you can see that he actually puts his life on the line for the world. Now the stories are more meaningful.

Can't remember if anyone's mentioned these kinds of things yet, if so, my bad. Near the end of our 3E Champions gaming with my old group, we'd degraded to completely and totally raping the computers/vehicle rules. I built a computer for my powered armor inside its elemental control with something like 24 SPD, Detect Incoming Attacks - Continuous, Analyse Incoming Attacks - Continuous, Counter Dangerous Incoming Attacks - Continuous, and a VPP for the purpose of, you guessed it, countering said incoming attack. Every phase it would have at least one full phase delay waiting to use it's VPP to negate the first attack an opponent launched at him. Whether that was encasing the armor in rubber to negate a lightning bolt or actually teleporting the character out of the way of a thrown bus, the computer was there to do it all. Character often had to take a half-phase to look around and see where he was after the computer acted, but that still left him half a phase to shoot someone. Buddy build a vechicle with multiform so that once at the combat site it would convert into his armor, or was it his weapon - I forget. Either way, that 1 CP for 5 CP conversion made it an extremely cheap way to get nasty during the battle. Only thing I can say is that the GM was just as bad.

Re: Re: Questions regarding the Hulk writeup I'm still very new to 5E Champs but I thought that this situation what the Inherent advantage was for. Can someone elaborate more on the reason why you wouldn't use it for a character like the Hulk?

Ah but all the gagets in the world will avail you not if you lack the insight to use them wisely. Do not repeat the mistakes of those who came before you but learn from them and avoid their fate. To assist in this regard I humbly offer the following resource for those bent on naughty deeds: http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html

I mentioned previously our comedy group Do'z Guys From Miami. Well, I was in one of those $1 stores one day and there in the toy section was a whole set of action figures called "Those Guys From Another Galaxy". I should have droped a buck and picked up a couple just for the shear comedy value of it. We figured that they were probably our Away Team but we never sat down and actually wrote up the character.

Our group was the Knights of the Dark Watch. Our comedy characters were Do'z Guys from Miami (who live on the beach). The sand volleyball court was their Danger Room. Each of us had 3 characters in the Knights and one guy made all of his mutated animals, so we labeled them the Mary Kay Commandoes (for those of you who remember Bloom County). God we were/are wierd. Only villians I remember were F.E.A.R. and F.O.E. but I'm not sure what the letters were suppose to stand for.

I don't know, there are more than a few cities that might seriously consider the savings in paying city maintenance to clean the streets vs just having her wade through and scour it clean. Oh, but she'd probably need the Perk: Union Member or she'll just end up getting sued. Those Teamsters don't mess around. But this does beg the question: how are her stats once she's on dry land? She a pushover for any 250pt character at that point? That's going to be the tough part trying to make a hero with this kind of advantage/limitation. Heroes don't pick the battle location very often, so no telling how much water will be available.