Lord Liaden

Dale, what you describe sounds exciting! I'm definitely looking forward to this one. I once listed some of the things that have given Hero books long-term utility to me in response to Steve Long's request for input on Champions Battlegrounds. You already have two of the big ones, NPCs and plot seeds. For NPCs, I've always appreciated details about them beyond just the character sheet writeups: bases, minions, allies, and modus operandi. I agree with BoloOfEarth's map suggestion. Besides maps of Meriquai Falls itself, maps of some locations that could be re-used "generically" would be useful as well: buildings, caves, outdoor settings, laboratories, etc. Some other desirables include: McGuffins: a few unique items that can be used repeatedly as a source of origins, plot enabling devices, contests for possession of them, etc. From your articles in DH, there's at least one major mystic artifact in Meriquai Falls which could have many developments woven around it. Tactics: I and my gaming groups have learned a lot about effective combat tactics and other ways to maximize team efficiency from published Champions books. If you have any established hero or villain teams, some notes about their distinctive methods would be educational, not to mention helpful when running them. Concepts: I've always appreciated books that provide ideas that fill in distinctive mechanics of physics, magic, psionics, cosmology etc. which I could adapt to my own game settings. It sounds as though Meriquai Falls features a rather unusual concept of magic and mysticism, and I'd like to understand a bit of what sets it apart from other mystic conventions. Environments: It can be a real challenge and a lot of fun for the PCs to run through an unusual environment (alien planet, other dimension or the like) where the "ground rules" are different from what they're used to - different appearance, physical laws like gravity altered, resources the players count on unavailable, even characters' powers functioning differently. I don't know whether any of that would be accessible via Meriquai Falls, but I thought I'd put the suggestion out there. I hope some of that is of use to you. P.S. I'm sure your summary of the fine stable of Hero Plus authors did not intentionally leave out Scott "Gestalt" Bennie.

I'm not sure if all the mechanics would suit you, but I think you'll find a lot of useful ideas from the "Dragonball Z" section of "Surbrook's Stuff", the excellent website of HERO System conversions of manga, books, movies, comics and more, maintained by Michael Surbrook, author of Ninja HERO and "Susano" here on the boards. Here's the address of his website: http://www.devermore.net/surbrook/index/index.html This will take you directly to the DBZ section: http://www.devermore.net/surbrook/dbzhero/dbzhero.html

Actually, there is now a Stopsign Advantage to Summon (+1) allowing a particular individual to be Summoned, usually only after said being is deceased - which is essentially the case here. Your second point is valid, though, but I have a suggestion for that below. This is a pretty fine job of accounting for everything, innominatus. I can see the Limitations you've taken defining the Multiform for purposes of it being a last-ditch escape only, but the one complication with this is that according to the description of Multiform, the damage taken by one form is carried over to the next, so if Mechanon's body were actually destroyed in combat, the head would be too. The rules do allow for you to distribute the damage proportionately, but you'd best make sure Mechanon decides to detach his head before his body, well, loses all its Body. Since you've allowed for points for a Base, and since Mechanon's base systems would be building a new body for him, it would be a significant saving for the character to build the Summoning of the new body into the base itself, rather than as part of the character's Powers. If the base has a computer or AI which could evaluate the data regarding Mechanon's defeat, and construct the new body accordingly, that would deal with the Trigger concerns which Geoff Speare raised. Either way, you would need an Expanded Class Advantage on Summon to allow for the resulting Mechanon body to be tailored accordingly.

I knew there was something I forgot to add to the "Miracle Materials" thread!

Gary, have you considered what this increased granularity will do to tracking the effects of Adjustment Powers? BTW, I have played and GM'd players with characters who have "inefficient" numbers of Characteristics. Sometimes it's to get a small advantage, especially with DEX: 19, 25 and 28 have not been uncommon. Other times it's just been to have something different from the norm, because we liked the variety. We may be an atypical group.

Perhaps you might get some use out of the distinctions I've made for my own campaigns between my three main "sources of power": science, magic and psionics. Science is the "physical laws" that our universe operates on. Science functions according to the same principles at all times; while sentient beings may tap into and manipulate its forces in various ways, those forces exist in and of themselves and function in a consistent manner which may be understood by anyone with sufficient acumen. The principles of science are essentially external to the sentient minds observing them. Magic is the tapping of forces shaped by the will and imagination of a magician. Though these forces exist apart from the magician, he can alter the principles by which they function through the focussing discipline of ritual. The magician's trained mind is like a lense or prism for magic. Magic is thus both external and internal to a sentient mind. Psionics is the imposition of the will on the perceivable world. Its power is derived solely from the individual mind, and its manifestation is limited only by the imagination and innate talent of its wielder; the laws of psionics are those that a mind gives to it. Psionics is therefore wholly internal to a sentient mind.

I fear we may be approaching the interpretative impasse beyond which reasoned discourse may not tread. Nonetheless, I think I can add a bit more to the discussion: Here's the statement from the FAQ: Q. What happens if a character is Duplicated, and then original character is killed? A. That typically depends on the special effects of the Duplication, but as a default rule, this means the duplicates lose the ability to combine back together; they just become a group of characters whose "creator" no longer exists. The FAQ "clearly" places the emphasis on the special effects involved, which may trump the default rule. The entry in FREd regarding Duplication and character death does not specifically say that Duplicates are unable to recombine after the Base Form has been killed: "If a Duplicate or the base character is killed, the others cannot revive him by recombining - he stays dead; the character has lost a part of himself." So, it isn't really possible to refute writing up Mechanon's ability as Duplication by citing the letter of the rules - they don't support that position. As I indicated, I'm persuaded that the special effects in this case allow this mechanic. Mechanon's extra bodies have no impact on the game unless and until the head combines with them, which would only happen as a last-ditch survival tactic, so IMO they don't need to be payed for as Duplicates or anything else. (Ironically it was innominatus' point refuting buying extra bodies as Followers which convinced me of that.) All of them are the same, and they have all payed the points for the same Duplicate, but because only one Duplicate head exists only one such body can be active at a time. Effectively, there is only one Mechanon that the players have to face, having one body which is the Base Form and one Duplicate. The self-destruct device is more of an "eliminate the evidence" device, a way to charge Mechanon an appropriate amount for the useful ability to destroy discarded bodies that the heroes could examine to learn Mechanon's secrets. As for the benefits of doing it this way rather than one of the other possibilities: as I said before, I personally would favor Multiform with a "Leaves Body Behind" Limitation, but this is now more of an esthetic preference. Either that or Duplication allows for the detachable head and inert body, with the head's stats being different from the body's, without the complication of adding a "Not When Shapeshifted" Limitation to many Characteristics and Powers. It's more cost-effective for the more expensive body to be the Base Form for the Duplicate head rather than the other way around, and IMO the SFX are good enough that the head doesn't need to be the base form to allow it to combine with a new body. Of course YMMV, and I completely respect anyone's right to do so in a reasoned manner. Now, having presented my case as logically and eloquently as I can, I shall gracefully quite the field.

Finding a Resource Kit If you don't mind ordering online, here are three reputable retailers who currently have copies of the Resource Kit: http://www.cyberdungeon.com (easiest to do a word search); http://www.dragonstrove.com (in their "Super-Hero Related Games" catalogue under "Hero Games"); http://www.sentrybox.com (in "Roleplaying Games" under "H").

Do I have the Disadvantage, "Only Invisible to innominatus"? Once again, look above Vanguard's post. I defend Steve's position, I do say in so many words that it makes sense and is a legal and reasonable interpretation of the rules, and I explain why in that post and the one I made before it. I respect your right to disagree with me, but please stop categorizing Steve's position as completely undefended.

Kuei Susano, are you aware of the approach taken to the kuei by Dean Shomshak in The Super Mage Bestiary? If you're interested, these would seem to be the items from his bibliography most pertinent to his research on the subject: Cavendish, Richard (ed.) Man, Myth and Magic: An Illustrated Encyclopedia of the Supernatural. Thompson, Stith. Motif-Index of Folk Literature.

Re: Point #2 With all due respect, I do defend the claim, and I did offer an explanation. Mechanon doesn't lose his original body, because the special effect of the original body is that it has backups with the same capacity to accept his head as their Duplicate. I don't see that as one character "adopting" the Duplicate of another. Each body identical, only one of them ever functioning at one time = one character with one Duplicate. The rest is just SFX IMHO. I'm not saying that other ways to build this effect couldn't work, and might even work "better" depending on what you want, but this discussion has convinced me that the way it's done in Mechanon's writeup is legal, appropriate and mechanically sound. You can of course disagree with my interpretation, innominatus, but I can't agree with your assertion that this method is wrong according to the rules.

Sorry, not again. For me, the last poll/discussion thread on this subject pretty much hashed it out to death. Anyone interested can check it out here: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=58&highlight=thor+AND+superman Please continue to debate as you wish - I think I'll sit this one out.

I'm curious, if you don't mind my asking: for those of you who haven't yet purchased Freedom City, does having HERO System stats for these characters make it more likely that you will pick it up?

I think what he was getting at was that if he as GM was rolling the only die to see who would act that Segment, and kept rolling above everyone's Speed time after time just from random chance, then long periods of time could pass with all the characters just standing around waiting to do something. The possibility of that would be even greater in heroic-level games where Speeds are lower than super-heroic. At least with each player rolling his or her own die, the odds are greater that someone will get lucky.

Ahh... innominatus, I believe you're operating under a false impression. Mechanon's body is not automatically destroyed when his head is detached. The terms of the Trigger for the self-destruct are, "encrypted radio signal from detached head or base." There's nothing preventing Mechanon from sending his head to scout around in smaller, less obtrusive form, pass through openings too small for the full body, conceal itself to spy on someone, etc. and then reclaim his body at a later time. He can have the full benefits of his Duplicate without losing his main body, should he wish. Your point about Followers not being appropriate for the reserve bodies is well taken, though. OTOH, that same argument works against your contention that Mechanon should pay for those reserves as Duplicates. By definition of his Duplication, Mechanon can have only one head-body combo functioning at a time; the other bodies are inert until the head can reach and connect with them. So, why should he pay for them? At most they're a plot device to allow Mechanon to escape complete destruction, IMHO something that's well within the realm of story-advancing gimmicks that master villains always seem to have access to. That would be as much "GM hand-waving" as the situation would require. If you allow that much, the rest of the Power construct falls into place quite well. Each body would have bought enough Duplication to allow for Mechanon's unique head to combine with it, and the Limitation on the Duplication, "Original Character is Incapacitated and Helpless while Duplicate Exists," would indeed leave those bodies vulnerable to being trashed by someone breaking into Mechanon's base, just as you suggest. You know, the more I consider it, the more I come to believe that this was a pretty good way to write up the effect!

My response to this particular point is covered in my first post on the thread, before the one that you quoted from.

One thing that Duplication accomplishes which Shape Shift would not, is that it allows for Mechanon's head to have a significantly different (in this case, weaker) set of Characteristics and Powers than the whole body/head combination does, without putting "Not When Shapeshifted" Limitations on most of those abilities. This way is definitely cleaner and simpler. Summoning a new body is no more rules-conforming than this version of Duplication, since there really isn't a provision for the Summoned whatever becoming an extension of the Summoner, and the Summoner effectively ceasing to exist at that point. You'd still have to fudge things to make it work as described.

Well, when I first saw this, it struck me as a little odd too. Then I remembered the example "Astral Form" Power from the sidebar on FREd p. 101, which builds the Astral Form as a Desolid Duplicate of the character with the Limitation, "Original Character is Incapacitated and Helpless While Duplicate Exists" (-1). Mechanically, Mechanon detaching his head while leaving his inert body behind is almost identical to this. Now strictly speaking, you're right in that if the body that has the Duplication Power is destroyed, the head should not be able to recombine. Since you want to set dramatic license aside and find a rules rationale for this , I might suggest that since the bodies have that Power, and since Mechanon is supposed to keep spare backup bodies in hidden locations, each spare body would potentially be the base form for that single Duplicated head, with only one body active at a time, so it would still work out. Note that this version of Mechanon does not have any points listed for bases (the 4E incarnation did), but since he is supposed to have them, I personally would account for these backup bodies as Followers drawn from those additional points, perhaps costed to the head Duplicate directly. All that being said, my own preference would have been to either use a Multiform for the head, perhaps with a "Leaves Body Behind" Disadvantage, or make the head the base form and the body the Duplicate. The latter option would be much more expensive since the same Limitations wouldn't apply, and not follow the Astral Form precedent as closely. All in all, though, the way Steve did it doesn't really offend my rules sensibilities, and with the addition of the Followers I'd be satisfied with it. Of course, YMMV.

Aaron, that's an interesting statement to me, because the last time I discussed this on the boards it was in response to another GM who was looking for an alternative to exactly the method you describe. He said that his players complained that when he rolled a series of sucky results, they all suffered. That might show up more in a supers level game, though, where there tends to be a wider range of Speeds at play than in fantasy. BTW, Steve Perrin's column also suggested allowing players to take a Recovery and perform other post-segment 12 actions when they rolled a natural 12, although I never tried that one myself.

I'm curious, Steve: How would you suggest giving a minimum number of actions to a character without changing the randomness of the determination? (If this is going into your HEROglyphs column, I'll hold my tongue until it comes out.)

For the players, it quickly became reflex: everybody rolls at the same time, and could see immediately whether they get to act or not that Segment. That added quite a bit of exitement to the start of combat, plus some mood-enhancing cheers or groans. As a GM, I did for these combat order rolls what I also do for attack rolls when running a large number of NPCs: roll a bunch of results in advance, then cross them off my list as they come up each Phase. Since agents are usually all the same DEX and SPD and would act at the same time in the normal combat order by the Speed Chart, I just make one roll for all of them. BTW, I can understand Steve Long's experience with a series of disasterous D12 rolls as he describes above, although that was never the experience with my group. Any player can have a run of ludicrously good or bad luck with the dice - it's part of introducing a random factor to the game. Mind you, it can happen more often rolling a straight D12 than multiples of D6 where the bell-curve takes shape, and it would stand out more when that result determines whether you can act at all or not. For the record, I tried this method at the request of several players; personally I love how the Speed Chart keeps everything organized.

The only real concern I would have about this is that combat ranking is one of the benefits of DEX that you pay those hard-earned Character Points for. For my part, I'd be annoyed if my character lost that benefit for an entire combat due to a random die roll. However, if your players wanted the variety and all agreed to it, it could be interesting. I've had success in the past with adding variety by randomizing the Phases on which a character can act. The method I employed was suggested by Steve Perrin in his "GM's Discretion" column back in Adventurers Club #21. Each player rolls a D12 every Segment, and if the player rolls his SPD or less, he gets an action Phase that Segment. Although DEX still governs the order of action, the order of Phases would be unpredictable, which reduces some of the meta-gaming "I'll declare a Haymaker on my Phase 6 because my opponent can't move again until Segment 8" that some people find annoying. And the character's SPD stat is still applicable to how often he gets to act. Because the vagaries of the dice could mean that a given character might never roll well enough to get an action, Steve Perrin also suggested that for each die roll that a character misses, he adds 1 to his target number next roll, cumulatively, until he succeeds, when the roll resets to his raw SPD again. Don't know if that's what you're looking for, but it does work pretty smoothly and doesn't take long to get used to.

Personal favorites of my own devising: Deadeye (undead private investigator); The Wrath (summoned supernatural assassin/ punisher of the guilty); Airborn (super-acrobat hero); Newtron (genius gadgeteer, pun on "new", "neutron" and "Newton"); Hegira (Middle-Eastern speedster hero - name for Mohammed's flight from Mecca to Medina); Killer Bee (South American villain with shrinking and insect powers).

How about Invisible Power Effects? This would be useful for those powers that cause "bad luck", like Telekinesis, Change Environment or Transform. In conjunction with No Conscious Control, the possessor of the Power might not even be aware that he or she has been causing these things to happen.

As I mentioned on the previous thread, I've used 2-pt. STR in my heroic-level campaigns for some time, while keeping it at 1 pt. in superheroic ones. The other distinctions and restraints between the two levels obviate any need to change HA or extra DC for Martial Arts in my experience. I've followed the rulebook's suggestion of not allowing extra DC for MA in heroic games; as for HA in heroic games, it's limited to weapons, which characters don't pay points for and whose power level I control, or spells, for which a little extra "oomph" compared to STR has not been a problem, particularly since the increased cost of STR tends to promote spellcasters with lower base STR scores.