Killer Shrike

Hey, thanx man. Im using Hero Designer currently, but I have a lot (a metric ton) of stuff still in Hero Creator. Will check this out.....

Hmph. Well quit slackin and figure it out already. HEROs players are supposed to be advanced and engineer-like. You're making us look bad

On the subject of birthdays, and apropos of nothing, when looking to see how pathetically aged you all are, I noticed that tsejui and Geoff Speare were both born on December 31, 1969. I find that to be freakishly coincidental and highly unlikely. Therefore, I am going to assume that they are the same person. Nice job, keeping us all thinking you are 2 people, but it was bound to fall through eventually. True, one of your alter egos wears glasses and the other doesnt but that trick is played out.....

Well Im not; you are all a bunch of decrepit old fogeys compared to me; why, Im not even quite 30 yet Nice write up innominatus; it changed a pointless argumentative thread into a cool addition to the game thread. BTW, do you happen to have the character file to post?

So where is the pdf?

NOAH-9 Onboard Automated Processing Apparatus Player: Val Char Cost 10 DEX 0 10 INT 0 4 SPD 20 Characteristics Cost: 20 Cost Skill 1 Language: English (Basic Conversation) 1 Mechanics 8- 1 Electronics 8- 3 Security Systems 11- 3 Systems Operation 11- 1 TF: Grav Vehicles/Hovercraft 3 Traveler 1 1) AK: Millenium City (2 Active Points) 11- 1 2) AK: Continental US (2 Active Points) 11- 1 3) AK: New York City (2 Active Points) 11- 1 4) AK: Chicago (2 Active Points) 11- Skills Cost: 17 Cost Talent 1 Program: Voice Recognition (Green Knight only) 1 Program: Loiter until called 1 Program: Emergency Auto Pilot [Notes: Will level off and fly in a large circle, avoiding collision,] 1 Program: Routing Point Navigation (Fly from Point A to Point 1 Program: Hit Target w/ Grapple & Recover 1 Program: Hit Target w/ LRM 1 Program: Hit Target w/ Tangle Wire 1 Program: Hit Target w/ Disruption Cannon 1 Program: Evasive Manuevers 1 Program: Operate Radar 1 Program: Relay Police Dispatch Data 1 Program: Relay Radar & Early Warning System Data 1 Program: Perform and Relay System Diagnostics Talents Cost: 13 Total Character Cost: 50 Base Points: 50 Experience Required: 0 Total Experience Available: 0 Experience Unspent: 0

Mark IX Neurally Operated Aerocycle, Hyper-mobile (NOAH-9) Player: Val Char Cost 15 STR 5 20 DEX 30 12 BODY 2 4 SPD 10 0" RUN-120" SWIM-20" LEAP0Characteristics Cost: 27 Cost Power END 20 Armored Carapace: Armor (8 PD/8 ED), Hardened (+1/4) (30 Active Points); Coverage does not protect passengers (-1/2) 50 Ram-jets: Flight 15", Improved Noncombat Movement (x8), 1 Continuing Fuel Charges lasting 1 Day each (+1/2), Fuel is Difficult to obtain (-1/4) (50 Active Points) 11 Best Saftey Features Money Can Buy: Luck 10d6 (50 Active Points); 1 Charges (-2), Limited Power (Only in case of major Emergency; -1 1/2) [Notes: In case of Emergency, roll to see if the pilot is able to land safely. A 'lucky' roll indicates that despite the condition of the vehicle, the pilot or auto pilot manages to bring it down safely and without causing further damage to the airframe.] Communication Suite, all slots: IIF Bulky (-3/4) 7 1) Microburst Variable Frequency Transmitter/Reciever: Radio Perception/Transmission, Invisible Power Effects (Radio Group; +1/4) (12 Active Points) 3 2) Anti-Jamming Tech: Flash Defense (5 points) (Radio Group) (5 Active Points) 8 3) Object Detection and Tracking: Radar (15 Active Points) 15 4) Inbound Enemy Identification and Early Warning System: Danger Sense (Analyze, Area: General Area, Discriminatory, Function as a Sense, Rapid (x10), Targeting Sense) (50 Active Points); Limited Power (Only vs. Airborne Dangers; -1 1/2) 11- 7 5) Neural Connector: Mind Link (One Specific Mind (Green Knight); No LOS Needed), Invisible Power Effects (Mental Group; +1/2) (22 Active Points); Only With Others Who Have Mind Link (-1), Does Not Provide Mental Awareness (-1/4) 26 On-board Tactical Solution Weapons Array: Multipower, 45-point reserve, all slots: (45 Active Points); IIF Bulky Durable (-3/4) 2u 1) Air to Air Anti-Aircraft Long Range Defense System: Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6 (vs. ED), No Range Modifier (+1/2) (45 Active Points); 8 Charges (-1/2), Linked to Inbound Enemy Identification and Early Warning System (-1/2), Lesser Instant Power can be used in any Phase in which greater Constant Power is in use (+1/4) 1u 2) Tangle-wire Gyroid Launcher: Entangle 2 1/2d6, 2 DEF, Entangle And Character Both Take Damage (+1/4), Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2) (44 Active Points); Limited Arc of Fire (60 Degrees; -1/2), Cannot Form Barriers (-1/4), Nonresistant DEF (-1/4), Can Be Missile Deflected (-1/4), 12 Charges (-1/4) 2u 3) Nueral Disruption Cannon: Energy Blast 6d6 (vs. ED), STUN Only (+0), 64 Charges (+1/2) (45 Active Points); Limited Arc of Fire (60 Degrees; -1/2), Beam (-1/4) 1u 4) Micromotorized Fixed Point Winch and Grapple Launcher: (Total: 45 Active Cost, 12 Real Cost) Grappling Hook (Extra Limbs) (5 Active Points); IIF Bulky (-3/4), Limited Manipulation (-1/4), Linked to Grappling Hook (Stretching) (-1/2), Lesser Power need not be used proportionally to Power with which it is Linked (+1/4) (Real Cost: 2) plus Grappling Hook (Stretching) 5", Limited Power (Power loses less than a fourth of its effectiveness; +0) (25 Active Points); 4 Charges (-1), Cannot Do Damage (-1/2), Always Direct (-1/4), No Noncombat Stretching (-1/4), No Velocity Damage (-1/4), Limited Body Parts (Extra Limbs: Grappling Hook) (-1/4) (Real Cost: 7) plus Grapple: +15 STR, Limited Power (Extra Limbs (Grappling Hook) Only; +0) (15 Active Points); 4 Charges (-1), Limited Arc of Fire (60 Degrees; -1/2), Linked to Grappling Hook (Extra Limbs) (-1/4), Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value (-1/4) (Real Cost: 5) Powers Cost: 153 Cost Skill 9 +3 Combat Piloting 3 Combat Piloting 13- Skills Cost: 12 Cost Perk 10 Onboard Automated Processing Apparatus (50 Base, 0 Disad) 1 Computer Link (Police Dispatch System) Perks Cost: 11 Cost Talent 3 On board Clock (Absolute Time Sense) 3 Navigation System (Bump Of Direction) Talents Cost: 6 Total Character Cost: 209 Val Disadvantages 10 Distinctive Features: Flying contraption, stylized like a horse Not Concealable, Noticed and Recognizable, Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses, Not Distinctive In Some Cultures Disadvantage Points: 10 Base Points: 200 Experience Required: 0 Total Experience Available: 0 Experience Unspent: 0

Here is a character that isnt quite as extreme as your posited character, but has a vehicle that he can control via an AI over a MindLink Green Knight Player: Val Char Cost 15/30 STR 5 15/22 DEX 15 20 CON 20 20 BODY 20 18 INT 8 18 EGO 16 15 PRE 5 18 COM 4 6/18 PD 3 6/18 ED 2 4/5 SPD 15 7 REC 0 50 END 5 40 STUN 2 8" RUN43" SWIM14"/7" LEAP1Characteristics Cost: 126 Cost Power END 11 Mutant Physiology (Regeneration): Healing 1d6 (max. Healed Points: 6) (Can Heal Limbs), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (30 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Turn (Post-Segment 12); -1 1/4), Self Only (-1/2) [Notes: No Healing Max (see FREd p. 120).] 5 Mutant Physiology: Power Defense (5 points) 6 Telekinetic Resistance: Damage Resistance (6 PD/6 ED) 5 Mutant Mindscape: +5 Mental Defense (9 points total) 13 Mutant Mindscape: Multipower, 30-point reserve, all slots: (30 Active Points); Activation Roll 13- (-3/4), Increased Endurance Cost (2x END; -1/2) 1u 1) Telekinetic Manipulation: Telekinesis (20 STR) (30 Active Points) 6 3m 2) Peer into the Void: Telepathy 6d6 (30 Active Points) 6 3m 3) Mind Quest: Mind Scan 6d6 (30 Active Points) 6 10 Shield: Multipower, 15-point reserve, all slots: (15 Active Points); OIF Durable (-1/2) 1u 1) Missile Deflection (Bullets & Shrapnel) (15 Active Points); Will Not Work Against Heavy Missiles (-1/4) 1u 2) +3 with DCV (15 Active Points) 33 Nueral Disruption Mace: Multipower, 50-point reserve, all slots: (50 Active Points); OIF Durable (-1/2) 2u 1) Hand-To-Hand Attack +6d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (45 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2) 2u 2) Energy Blast 3d6 (vs. ED), Area Of Effect (12" Line; +1), No Normal Defense (Non-organic, Lack of Weakness (ED), CON 21+) (Standard; +1) (45 Active Points); 8 Charges (-1/2) 2u 3) Nueral Zap: Energy Blast 5d6 (vs. ED), No Normal Defense (Non-organic, Lack of Weakness (ED), CON 21+) (Standard; +1) (50 Active Points); 8 Charges (-1/2), No Range (-1/2) Nuerally-linked Bio-induction Armor, all slots: OIF Durable (Focus: Nueral Armor; -1/2), Extra Weight (+100 kg) (-1/4) 17 1) Advanced Polymers and Micro-mail: Armor (10 PD/10 ED) (30 Active Points) 12 2) Biofeedback Self Augmentation: +7 DEX (21 Active Points) 6 3) Biofeedback Self Augmentation: +1 SPD (10 Active Points) 2 4) Inertial Compensators and Extra Weight: Knockback Resistance -2" (4 Active Points) 6 5) Communications Module: Radio Perception/Transmission (10 Active Points); IIF Fragile (-1/2) 3 6) On-board senors array: Nightvision (5 Active Points) 2 7) On-board senors array: Enhanced Perception (+1 to PER Rolls for All Sense Groups) (3 Active Points) 7 8) Neural Connector: Mind Link (One Specific Mind (Noah-9); No LOS Needed), Invisible Power Effects (Mental Group; +1/2) (22 Active Points); Only With Others Who Have Mind Link (-1), Does Not Provide Mental Awareness (-1/4) 10 Nuerally-linked Bio-induction Armor: Elemental Control, 30-point powers, all slots: (15 Active Points); OIF Durable (Focus: Nueral Armor; -1/2) 7 1) Biofeedback Self Augmentation: +15 STR, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (22 Active Points); No Figured Characteristics (-1/2) 10 2) Biocohesive Force-Replent Inertial Envelope: Force Field (2 PD/2 ED/2 Mental Defense/2 Power Defense/2 Flash Defense: Hearing Group/2 Flash Defense: Sight Group), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (18 Active Points) 5 3) Biofeedback Scalar Induction Loop: +15 STR (15 Active Points); 2 Continuing Charges lasting 1 Turn each (-1), No Figured Characteristics (-1/2) Powers Cost: 185 Cost Skill 4 +2 Disruption Mace 3 Combat Piloting 12- (13-) 3 Inventor 13- 3 Mechanics 13- 3 KS: Chivalric Code (INT-based) 13- 1 AK: Millenium City 8- 3 Scientist 2 1) SS: Biophysics (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 13- 2 2) SS: Chemistry (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 13- 2 3) SS: Inorganic Chemistry (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 13- 2 4) SS: Metalurgy (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 13- 2 5) SS: Physics (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 13- 2 6) SS: Robotics (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 13- 2 7) SS: Engineering (INT-based) (3 Active Points) 13- Skills Cost: 34 Cost Perk 15 Money: Filthy Rich 40 NOAH-9 (200 Base, 0 Disad) Perks Cost: 55 Total Character Cost: 400 Val Disadvantages 15 Social Limitation: Secret ID Frequently (11-), Major 10 Distinctive Features: Mutant Not Concealable, Extreme Reaction, Detectable Only By Unusual Senses, Not Distinctive In Some Cultures 20 Psychological Limitation: Overconfident Very Common, Strong 10 Enraged: by Drug Dealers Uncommon, go 11-, recover 14- 15 Psychological Limitation: Code of Chivalry Common, Strong 10 Dependent NPC: Grandfather 8- (Infrequently), Normal, Unaware of character's adventuring career/Secret ID, Useful noncombat position or skills 10 Vulnerability: 2x STUN Neurological Attacks Uncommon 15 Psychological Limitation: Code vs Killing Common, Strong 20 Normal Characteristic Maxima Disadvantage Points: 125 Base Points: 250 Experience Required: 25 Total Experience Available: 25 Experience Unspent: 0

Wouldnt Position Shift on Leaping allow a character to use Leaping while prone to get back to thier feet (or leap while prone) just like someone with Teleport or Flight could using the Adder?

? Oz?

Again, if a player wants to freeform, there is nothing stopping him. The provided is for a by the book port. Why provide anything at all for a freeform conversion? Thats the point of freeform, to do it as you like. There is nothing stopping a freeformer from saying; I want Abundant Step, and I want to be able to do it 3/day, starting! If the GM allows it and the character can afford it, go for it. Thats the same as saying, my monk knows a Martial Art that is basically a copy of Aikido in the UMA, renamed as appropriate. Again, if the GM is kool with it and the points are available, go for it However, if a player says 'I want to play Billy Badass my 15th lvl Monk EXACTLY as he is', or the GM wants to lift a character from 3e source material and doesnt want to do a lot of custom design, then take the X level monk prefab/package Deal and add it to the character as appropriate to the characters 'level' in 3e. Add some stats, skills and viola.

I dont mind high point totals in HEROs because the points scale fairly well. 3e Epic is just a travesty of munchkinism IMO however, and I would never allow a player to convert an Epic level 3e character into 1 of my games. If you think about it however, from the 10000 ft view, 21+ monks really arent advancing as monks anymore, they are just ripening into Epic Level Feats.

Mechanon = Ultron in my mind. How many Adamantium bodies did Ultron manage to make? You know, that 'rare' metal that no one knows how to make? Hmm....Writer Fiat? Plot Device? Thats Mechanons deal. He cant die unless the GM doesnt want him around anymore, which is consistent with the genre. Pointed, not pointed, who cares? Its story driven, not point driven.....

Are you kidding me? I got it the day it came out, natch. But a customizable GMs screen could be very very handy if its quality merchandise.

innominatus: You can do another 5 pages of 'Im right, and anyone who doesnt agree with me is wrong' but in the end its not going to get any of us anywhere productive. I have an idea: instead of back and forthing over it, write up your version of Mechanon (Mechanon-Innominatus) and post it here with your 'more correct' Self Destruct mechanism. Let it stand or fall on its own merits. Those who prefer it can then adopt it, those who dont can safely ignore it. It makes for less argument, and is productive rather than antagonistic. YMMV

Good stuff Hermit. Sadly, I was never a big DC fan, so my amalgamated skillz are "suxzor" as I believe the kids are saying on the streets these days. Im really getting a kick out reading this stuff though.

My advice is a little different. If you are uncomfortable with the relative power level, the combat rules, or any significant aspect of how the rules interact then dont try to shake that out during normal play. Its time for a FIGHT CLUB Of couse, as you all know YOU DONT TALK ABOUT FIGHT CLUB! But, Im going to break Tyler's top 2 rules and do it anyway. He can beat my ass for it later. Have the players make their characters, but dont obsess over the nitty gritty too much. Broadstrokes are plenty fine for this. Get together for a session of pure mechanics. No roleplaying, no character interaction necessary, no continuity -- just mechanics, SFX, and dice rolling. Select a few threat ranges; typically follow a progression, like 2 competent but weaker guards, followed by the weak but numerous swarm of 3 per PC, followed by the big ugly single monster/bad ass party crusher. Make sure the emphasis is on the rules, not the outcome. Follow the obligatory 'how to run a combat' checklist most games have, look up every rules question, resolve every oddity encountered and annotate them for future research (or to post on a website like this). Dont impose any house rules or spot 'fixes' until you are sure you understand the system well. This is a discovery phase, not a solutions phase. Encourage players to try out ALL of thier characters relevant abilities, not just finding the 1st one that works and sticking with it. Contrive (openly) opportunities for them to use relevant skills to see how they work. If they have variable or switchable abilities (like a boost ability or a in the HERO System assignable Combat Levels), make sure to get some testing in for all of those states. Figure out how 'noticing things' works in the system and implement situations to test them; for example when the PCs are fighting the big baddy, arbitrarily decide that the lights are dimming. Try a few rounds/actions/phases (whatever terminology the game uses) at each significant lightining category. Impose any envorinmental issues commonly exist in that setting randomly (such as null-magic winds in a fantasy game, or sandstorms in a desert game, or hurricanes in a pirate game) so that the players and you both get a handle on how that works before it actually matters in game. Spend some time hammering out any detail of the combat rules that seems confusing. Solicit the players input. Though players are a generally low and ignorant lot, they can be devilishly clever at times. After the session (or if it doesnt slow things down too much, during) do several things: a) Allow the players to alter thier characters based upon thier new knowledge and experience with the system; in some extremes this will include completely dropping a character concept in lieu of one better suited to the system. Ask the players if they individually have any aspects of the combat rules they need further clarification on and try to answer these questions using thier character in a small practical app test. Set up a situation to test or illustrate the situtation and run it through real quick. c) Find out if the group had more fun playing the competant but out numbered guards, the weenie swarm, the Party Smasher, or have no preference. This can vary widely from group to group and player to player, and even genre to genre for the same players in the same group, so its important to get a bead on this early before you spin wheels designing antagonists that are not going to do it for your group. Ive used this technique many many times, and its always been a good thing. Even if you as the GM are comfortable with the rules, and even if the players are too, it can be an excellent excercise when switching genres and/or powerlevels, serving as a trial run. It also gives you as the GM a very good handle on the abilities of the PCs and the limitations/strengths of thier players. YMMV, but good luck either way!

Ive had some experience doing Jedi in HEROs indirectly as one of my players played one in a cross-dimensional "in an infinite universe of infinite possibilities, anything goes" type game, at IIRC 250 starting, basic superhero's options. We did the Force Powers in a Multipower, and it worked out rather well. One thing that we found that really fit a Jedi well are Overall Levels. Jedi are generally good at everything they do, and the OLs depict that. I dont recall off hand if how we did the Darkside.....the player of the character goes by Wily Quixote on these boards; Ill have to find out if he remembers when I get home later. On a side note, I wouldnt do Force Choke as an EGO Blast; instead use TK, and buy a subset of Martial Manuevers usable with the TK, like Martial Choke, Martial Disarm, and Shove. OR Take Stretching, IPE, does not cross intervening space. Actually Vader choked people over a vid link which is normally not legal by the LOS rules. He probably bought two Force Chokes, one for in person, and another for over vid links and similar long range Chokes. I dont have FREd with me, but somthing along these lines: 1) 6" of Stretching, IPE (SFX Only), DNCIS, Gestures (good for lots of things besides choking too, including the ole Lightsaber fetch, pulling cargo boxes into Luke from behind, Grabbing pesky blasters out of Solo's hand and so on) and 2) 1" of Stretching, IPE (SFX Only), DNCIS, Gestures, Megascaled 10km, can be scaled back

Sounds cool, but no picture. how big is it, how durable, and how stand-uppy is it? On a completely unrelated note, perhaps the best DMs screen Ive seen overall would be the cool one put out by Kenzer and Company for IIRC Hackmaster or d20. Ive never used it, but one of my players, Dr. Lucky, has it and it looks pretty sweet in theory.

Sure. Here goes: Monk 21st Level God-like being: Major Transform 50d6; Self into "Thin Air"; 1 Non Recoverable Charge; No Conscious Control (GMs Option); Standard Effect Rule 150 BODY; SFX: Forces of Game Balance Cost: Free Looks good to me

Thats a real groaner. I think that if your PCs decided to ignore thier Code vs Killing, any court in the land would throw the trial out on the basis of "extenuating circumstances".

Alternately: Buy the main character as a skilled normal. Maybe 100 pts total. Buy the Robot as a Vehicle. Buy a Computer with a limited Mindlink and a program for everything the Robot can reasonably do. Buy a limited MindLink (no Mental Awareness, only w/ other w/ MindLink, etc) and Clairsentience (uses senses of others) and SPD only for mental actions (enough to equalize the controllers speed with that of the Robot) in an OIF Bulky (Control Device) for the main character. The main character then can order the Computer to run its programs via the "Nuero-link" ie Mind Link to control the Robot, while observing what the Robot senses on control screens. This might be a pretty cool & interesting character actually. Also, its open ended; the main character could add more vehicles as he goes if desired.

Um....because Im providing as close to a by-the-book direct conversion as possible for both baselining relative power between 'classes', and for conversions of existing characters. If a player/GM wants to freeform it, then there is no need for a comparitive conversion at all; they can just use the published books and have a ball.

OK, perhaps a clarificative point might help: what are the mechanical differences between being carried and being grabbed. If 1 character is holding another and the held character is not resisting, are you saying thats not a Grab, and by extention neither the holder nor the held character suffer the normal OCV or DCV penalties for being in a Grab? So a very strong character with extra limbs with stretching and in this case a FF with Protects Carried Items could reach out and "carry" his teammates, extending his FF to them in the process, and none of the characters involved would suffer any penalties because they are not actually Grabbed, only "carried"? If his hands were 1 hex large from say growth, could others 'stand' on his hands and therefore be 'carried' and benefit from his FF? Could a "carried" person just chose to not be "carried" anymore, since they are not actually Grabbed, and simply walk or drop away from the 'carrying' character without needing to wait until that characters DEX so that the 'carrying' character can let them go? If the 'carrier' does not want to let the carried characters go, does he then have to initiate a Grab to retain hold of them if they dont want to be carried anymore? **************************************************************** So far I have tried to apply "common sense" to this interesting new Adder, but everytime we seem to have a handle on it and how it behaves, a new situation occurs in-game that brings the whole situation into contention again. The problem with common sense is that it is subjective, and several gamers in one room will often have different definitions of a 'common sense' answer. Most of the confusion around this situation in the games so far usually boils down to the selectivity of the Protects Carried Adder, and whether a person is Grabbed or just loosely held when they are being carried. Ive never seen an Adder cause so many arguments. Its cool and interesting so Id rather try to seek clarification rather than just ban it.

Doh! Im such an idiot! I forgot Martial Escape at 1st level. Ill fix it 2morrow evening; just pretend in the meantime......