Killer Shrike

For a permanent curse you could use NSLs and apply 'Independent'. You lose the character points, but a small price to pay for the smiting of ones enemies.

Also Northstar and Aurora before Sasquatch experimented on Aurora and screwed up her powers.

That was my personal favorite from the Temple of Elemental Supidity (er....Evil) as well Wily....hehe, although Hrenex had his share of good ones too if I do say so myself....but anyway, back on subject the actual quote was: "It's ok guys, I'm good; I only took a little over half my hit points." and the player (Dr. Lucky on these boards IIRC) wasnt being sarcastic, ironic, clever, or attempting to be humorous -- he was seriously unconcerned. He's also the same player that broke the Staff of Power against Tharizdun and nuked half the party which I mentioned awhile back in some other post. Fun fun fun.....

Hmm....Interesting concept but if I might make a suggestion? Instead of having Mutants openly emerging, instead run it as a 'Hidden Masters' type of campaign. The mutants that went underground 60 odd years ago formed a secret counter-culture of largely independent cells scattered around the country. Over 6 decades sects and fueds and alliances have formed between various larger cells, but the majority of the cells are unaligned and in many cases consist of a single family unit. The government of course didnt forget about these people....not all of the government anyway. After Nixon (was involved in McCarthyism by the way) took office, he put in place by Presidential Order a department under the auspices of the National Security Council to control or eliminate this hidden 'threat', and to do so secretly. This agency, hidden behind the unassuming title of National Security Policies Auditing and Review Board (NS-PAR), which internally stands for Paranormal Acquisition and Removal. "Naspar" squads, also called simply 'the Feds', hunt and neutralize paranormals either through capture or killing, and of course manage the requisite cover ups. The established cells are well practiced in evading detection, but "Naspar" snatch up newly catalyzed mutants born to normal parents, called 'seeds' by the underground mutants, who generally call themselves 'supes', which is obviously short for superior, or superhuman, or souped-up depending on who you ask. Some of the more forward thinking/kind hearted cells try to rescue young seeds before they can get snatched up by "Naspar". Other more militant cells try to get them first to fill out thier body count. Still other cells play ostrich and concentrate on not taking any risks. Of course, one of the largest and fastest growing sects is a militant sect which wants to sieze control of the American government and institute a new rule by the "genetically advanced". This sect, The People of Tommorrow ("The People" for short, connotating that "norms" are not people, only mutants are), is lead by a particularly powerful mutant [insert campaign info here]. And of course, there is an oppositional sect, The Protectors of Humanity ("The Protectors" for short) who seek to a) stop The People improve Normal-Mutant relations, c) minimize the damaged done by militant groups that in the long run will turn all of humanity against mutants if left unchecked. Classic XMen, updated to the modern day. The really cool bit about keeping it all an underground phenomenom is that you can use modern media unchanged. Its amazing what kind of slants you can put to real news stories if you try to corral some of them into hidden facades that really mask some mutant or anti-mutant government activity. It would also keep a reign on the players, assuming they are part of or friendly to The Protectors, to keep thier powers as hidden as possible. It also encourages a nomadic existance, moving around to evade "Federal Entanglements". This is such a cool idea in fact, that if I wasnt already in the middle of a Champions campaign and planning the next campaign (a fantasy HERO game) I'd be tempted to run it myself......

I have created a few custom powers; here are two that have been posted to the new boards in various places: 9) Density Decrease: Each 20 Base Points gives its target x1/2 Mass, +1" KB, -5 STR (no figured), +1 PD, +1" Leaping. The attack is visible, the effects are not. The effect is constant and continues as long as the Endurance cost is paid to maintain the effect. The Defense is having Shrinking, Growth, Density Increase, Desolid, or Shape Shift with the Cellular Adder. Invulnerability {Yield Symbol} Standard Power/Defense Power Persistent Self Only Invulnerability provides a character with total immunity to any direct effects of a specific Tight Special Effect, whether that effect would be beneficial or not. This includes any of the characters own powers which are not Self Only or Sensory in nature; thus Instant powers such as Aid and Healing cannot be used on oneself unless specifically limited to Self Only if they are of a SFX covered by the Invulnerability. A Tight SFX is any SFX that approximately 10 to 15% of opponents might be expected to possess within the confines of a particular setting. More or less expansive SFX can be selected for an Invulnerability but require the application of a modifier called Scope (see below). Immunity to direct effect in this context means that any Power or outcome of a specific Special Effect has absolutely no effect upon the character whatsoever, regardless of circumstance. In the case of Attack Powers this means that no damage or dice of effect are applied to an Invulnerable character if the SFX of the attack is covered by the SFX of the Invulnerability. For all other Powers which have some effect not determined by dice of effect, that effect fails to affect an Invulnerable character if the SFX of the attack is covered by the SFX of the Invulnerability. Attacks that cause damage as an incidental or situational effect may still affect an Invulnerable character. For example Change Environment typically will affect an Invulnerable character with the exception of any direct damage even if the SFX of the Invulnerability applies to the SFX of the Change Environment. Similarly, using Powers to affect the environment around an Invulnerable character may have an effect depending on the circumstances involved and the Scope of the Invulnerability. Example: HEROGuy is Invulnerable to Mental Powers (90 Real Cost in most supers campaigns). The villain Simon Sez tries to use his 12d6 Mind Control (SFX: Psychic) on HEROGuy, automatically failing because HEROGuy is Invulnerable to the SFX of his attack. HEROGuy laughs off the weak attempt at penetrating his thick skull, but thinking fast Simon Sez uses his Mind Control to command a passing driver to swerve off the road and careen into HEROGuy from behind! The fender of the Lexus leaves a painful dent in his thigh as HEROGuy Rolls with the Punch. Maybe he should have invested in some armored tights! Example: OmegaMAN is Invulnerable to Energy Powers (150 Real Cost in most supers campaigns). OmegaMAN has tracked down the vigilante Drastic Measures, trapping him in a parking garage. Drastic whirls around and tries to use his 4d6 RKA (SFX: Anti-Matter Ray) on OmegaMAN, doing no damage because OmegaMAN is Invulnerable to the SFX of his attack. Sadly, OmegaMAN isn't as quick on his feet as Drastic Measures, and before he can react Drastic targets the ceiling of the garage level over his head, bringing quite a lot of cement and a couple of cars down on his head despite an ungainly attempt to jump clear. Drastic shrugs and thinks to himself, "Well, you can't make an omelette without breaking a few dopey would be heroes' heads", as he gets back to his personal war on crime. This Power can also be circumvented by the use of Variable Special Effects in some circumstances if the SFX that the Invulnerability protects against is narrow enough. Thus a Mutant with a Variable SFX (Any Energy) Energy Blast could get around an Invulnerability vs Fire or any other Tight SFX by switching between SFX until he found one that worked, but could not circumvent an Invulnerability with a broader SFX that applied to his attack such as Invulnerability vs Mutant Powers or Invulnerability vs Energy. Example: Arkelos the Wizard targets a Fire Dragon which has Invulnerability to Fire with his Mystic Bolt of Mutilation with Variable SFX (Fire, Ice, Electric, Acid). If Arkelos choose the Fire SFX the Dragon will take absolutely no damage from the spell, but the other SFX will affect the Dragon normally. However, if Arkelos used the same spell against a Celestial Dragon with Invulnerability to Magic (a +1 1/2 Advantage in most Fantasy campaigns) the spell will not work regardless of whether Arkelos chooses Acid, Fire, Electric, or Cold because the Spell also has SFX: Magic. Arkelos might want to consider diplomacy! This Power can be taken many times, applying to a different SFX with each purchase. This Power is inappropriate in many campaigns, particularly Invulnerabilities to broad categories of Special Effects, and should be approved by the GM prior to use. Dramatic and common sence should be considered in the taking of Invulnerabilites. A character that is totally Invulnerable to any reasonable threat can place a significant strain upon the GM's ability to challenge that character, and such a character could outshine other PC's if allowed to run amok. In any case where the broadness of a Special Effect is in doubt, the GM has final authority (as always). Scope: The broadness of the SFX defined will effect the usefulness of the power; broader SFX categories will cost more points than narrower to reflect thier general usefulness. A reasonably tight single SFX should represent a SFX that approximately 10-15% of the potential opposition might possess within the campaign as whole. Thus, SFX: Heat/Fire, SFX: Radiation, SFX: Magnetism are all tight single SFX in most supers campaigns but SFX: Mental or SFX: Mutant Powers are usually not as they cover a broader range of powers/abilites unless mutants or mental powers are abnormally scarce in that particular campaign. Similarly Invulnerability to "My Brothers Mutant Powers" is extremely specific and should be commensurately less expensive. The Scope modifier may be either an Advantage or a Limitation depending upon its application. Scope is rated in terms of broadness and specificity. Thus to represent an Invulnerability which applies to a broader or more narrow SFX than normal use the following chart: Scope Modifier Vs. a Specific Individual or a 5% subset of a Tight SFX -1 3/4 Vs. a Small Group (immediate family, fellow test subjects, a 25% subset of a Tight SFX) -1 1/4 Vs. a Medium Group (extended family, common subrace, uncommon race, a 50% subset of a Tight SFX) -3/4 Vs. a Large Group (very common subrace, common race, a 75% subset of a Tight SFX) -1/4 Tight SFX (approximately 10-15% prevalent) +/-0 broad SFX (appoximately 25% prevalent) +1/2 Very Broad SFX (appoximately 50% prevalent) +1 Extremely Broad SFX (appoximately 75% prevalent) +1 1/2 Encompassingly Broad SFX (appoximately 100% prevalent) +2 The total modifiers are added to garner the value of the Scope Modifier. Thus an Extremely Broad SFX (+2) that applied only to a Small Group (- 1 1/4) would be a +3/4 Advantage. Example: Destructo is only immune to his brother Opticon's Mutant Powers (-1 3/4), in a campaign where approximate 25% of all opponents are Mutants (+1/2). Thus the Scope modifer for Destructo's Invulnerability is (-1 1/4), or 60 / 2.25 = 27 points. If Opticon had a tighter SFX for some or all of his powers such as "Lasers" then Destructo could buy his Invulnerability only vs Opticon's Laser Powers, which would equate to a Scope modifier of (-1 3/4) 22 points. If Opticon has powers that do not have the Laser SFX, they will affect Destructo normally but his Laser powers will not affect Destructo directly at all. However, any indirect effects would apply as normal. If Opticon uses his Lazer to cause a treebranch or similar overhang to drop on Destructo from above, or to cut a crater into the ground beneath Destructo's feet, Destructo's Invulnerability will not protect him from any damage or inconvenience incurred from those circumstances. Allowing a character to buy Invulnerability to thier nemesi's powers can be game altering and should be carefully considered or disallowed outright, but in some cases common and or dramatic sense may dictate that this is not only allowable but adds an interesting twist to a plot line. In any case, this is not a tactic which should be encouraged or over used lest it lose its impact. Some common Invulnerabilities would include: Invulnerable to "Physical" attacks is a 100% relevant Encompassingly Broad SFX (+2) in almost all settings and thus costs 180 points. Invulnerable to "Energy" attacks ranges from Very to Encompassingly Broad, but in most supers and fantasy campaigns will be Extremely Broad and thus cost 150 points. Invulnerable to "Slashing/Piercing" attacks is 25% in most modern settings, 50% in most supers settings, and 75% in most fantasy or gun heavy settings and thus costs 90/120/150 points accordingly. Invulnerable to Blunt/Impact attacks (including Knockback/down and falling damage) is generally 75% relevant in most campaigns, but this may be only 50% relevant in many fantasy or gun heavy campaigns and thus is either 120 or 150 points accordingly Invulnerable to all Mental Powers will vary from campaign to campaign, but in many supers campaigns will generally be 25% relevant and thus cost 90 points. Invulnerability to all Ego Blasts however would work out to a Tight SFX, Small Group (about 25% of all Menatalist probably have an EGO Attack, and random powers bought as an EGO Attack round out the difference) in most campaigns for 27 points (as a comparison, a character with 27 points of Mental Defense and a 10 EGO would resist 29 points of damage from EGO Blasts (5d6 of effect max, or 8d6 average) for 27 points, and also resist all other Mental Powers). Invulnerable to all Mutant Powers will vary from campaign to campaign, but in many supers campaigns will generally be 25% relevant and thus cost 90 points. Invulnerability to all Mutant Fire Powers however would work out to Broad SFX, Small Group for a (-3/4) which would be 34 points Invulnerable to all Superhuman Powers will vary from campaign to campaign, but in most supers campaigns will generally be 75% relevant and thus cost 150 points. In some common source campaigns, this might be a 100% relevant SFX but probably also qualifies for one of the Specific limitations as well indicating a Invulnerability that would not work vs the Superhuman Powers with a different origin. The definition of a "Superhuman Power" would be any Power excluding other constructs bought as a Power such as Characteristics or Skills which is natural to a character and not conceptually externalized from the character such as through a universal Focus, some instances of Only in HERO Id or Restrainable, and not native to a characters race. This would cover most altered humans, mutants, and some "Power Ring" type characters (with non-universal FOCI) but not cover most gadgeteers, sentient robots, power armor users, martial artists, or some aliens (aliens such as Ironclad which have abilities not typical of thier race would be affected). Invulnerable to all Martial Arts attacks should generally be bought as Invulnerable to "Physical" only vs Martial Arts which in most campaigns would qualify as a Small Group for 105 points, but as a Large Group in a NinjaHERO game for 165 points. A lesser form of this Invulnerability would be to buy it as Invulnerable to Blunt/Impact attacks (including Knockback/down and falling damage) which would not protect against bladed weapons used in conjunction with Martial Arts, but would cost only 75 points in a non martial arts specific campaign or 135 in a NinjaHERO Campaign. Hulled: If a character or vehicle's Invulnerability stems from a protective outer skin or outer layer and thier insides do not benefit from the protection of the Invulnerability if attacked directly then that is roughly equivalent to a mild form of Restrainable and is worth a -1/4 Limitation. Any attack, including some Conforming AoEs (such as gas clouds and similar), some Change Environments, and some Indirects which can circumvent the Invulnerable Hull are applied normally, ignoring the Invulnerability. Further, some circumstances may circumvent the Invulnerability for all attacks outright even if they lack appropriate advantages; for example an Invulnerable Hulled Vehicle with an open door would lose the benefit of its Invulnerability to an attack that was able to exploit such an opening, typically with a -2 to hit or with a Called Shot if using Hit Locations. Finally, opponents that have successfully Grabbed an Invulnerable character or vehicle may strike at openings in the Hull with the usual penalties for Grabbing while keeping a hand free if they can reasonably reach those openings. For most characters, as opposed to Vehicles, openings in thier 'Hull' would include thier eyes, nostrils, ears, mouth, and other bodily orifices at the GMs discretion. Characters and vehicles with Hulls also typically take the Visible limitation. Weakness Some Invulnerable Characters have a specific exclusion clause to thier Invulnerability. For some, it is a literal location on thier body, for others its a specific material, and for still others its more abstracted. It is usually appropriate to also take either a Vulnerability or Susceptibility Disadvantage (or both) for the character revolving around the Weakness to depict a truly serious frailty. Location Weaknesses are a place on the body of a character which is not protected by the Invulnerability; if the Weakness is also defined as accessible then an opponent that knows about the location may take a -2 OCV on attack rolls if not using Hit Locations, or may make a called shot if using Hit Locations to target this area and if successful will completely bypass the characters Invulnerability. Achille's Heel is a classic example of this type of Weakness. Material Weaknesses represent an Invulnerability which does not affect a specific type of material such as alluminum, silver, wood or a specific subtype of that substance; a weapon constructed of that material (even a makeshift weapon) will always circumvent the Invulnerability. Superman's weakness to Kryptonite or the Norse god Baldur's weakness to mistletoe are examples of this type of Weakness. Abstract Weaknesses represent less specific or more conceptual weaknesses. Some possibilities might include a character whose Invulnerability does not work at all during a certain phase of the moon, or is turned off if they see a certain color. GM's discretion should be used heavily for such Weaknesses, and should carefully consider whether in some cases a Physical Limitiation, Accidental Change (to unprotected by Invulnerable and back), a Dependency, or some other Disadvantage might not be more appropriate for the character. Weaknesses are represented using a process similar to defining a Focus. A Weakness is defined by how apparant it is, how accessible it is, and what type it is; first determine whether the Weakness is a Material, Location, or Abstract Weakness. and then decide if the Weakness is Obvious or Inobvious, and whether it is Accessible or Inaccessible. Inobvious Inaccessible Weakness (IIW) is a -0 Limitation; it represents a Weakness which is neither apparent nor exploitable in combat and is not limiting enough to be worth any points. Such a Weakness basically serves as a flavorful character hook or as an enabler for a larger concept; for example a character with such a Weakness may take an Infrequent Physical Limitation that occurs if the Weakness is exploited or something similar. An IIW can be exploited if a character is rendered helpless but generally not otherwise. Obvious Inaccessible Weakness (OIW) is worth -1/4; it represents a part of the characters body that is noticably unprotected or vulnerable but which is generally difficult or impossible to target specifically in combat, such as thier eyes perhaps; suprise attacks or attacking the character while they are incapacitated will bypass the Invulnerability. This form of Weakness can be used to represent some characters that must concentrate or be aware of a threat to maintain thier Invulnerability, like Captain Britain and some Martial Artists, but are as vulnerable as anyone else (aside from any other defenses they may have) if incapacitated or caught unawares. in this case an opponent should intuit that an ambush would be an effective tactic against such a character. Inobvious Accessible Weakness (IAW): is worth -1/2; it represents a Weakness which is not obvious or apparent but which can be targeted in combat to circumvent the Invulnerability. Obvious Accessible Weakness is worth -1; it represents a weakness which is both clearly identifiable and exploitable in combat. All opponents can immediately discern the Weakness and target it in combat. Such a Weakness is rare, but examples include suit of Invulnerable Armor lacking a helmet or face mask (thus the head would be the Weakness in this case). Non-Dispersing: is worth -1/2. Some Invulnerabilities will stop all damage, but dont disperse the impact of the attack. Thus a character with a Non-Dispersing Invulnerability still takes Knockback as normal and will take damage from the Knockback unless thier Invulnerability specifically protects against it (such as Invulnerable to Physical, Invulnerable to Blunt/Impact). Affects Desolidified: Though derived from Desolid using the Custom Powers rules, Invulnerability is now a seperate power and is not affected by powers with this Advantage. Area of Effect: Normally this has no bearing on Invulnerability, but Areas of Effect that are bought Conforming do have an effect on Hulled Invulnerability. A Conforming attack treats a Hull as a wall, but may at the GMs discretion seep into any breaches or openings in a Hull circumventing the Invulnerability and having its normal (or a reduced) effect. For a character with a Hulled Invulnerability, this might indicate a poison gas or a fire ball which gets into his respiratory system even though his skin is unharmed. Armor Piercing: AP has no effect vs. a character Invulnerable to the SFX of the AP attack. AVLD: AVLD has no effect vs. a character Invulnerable to the SFX of the AVLD attack. Invulnerable cannot be defined as the targeted Defense of an AVLD attack. BOECV: BOECV has no effect vs. a character Invulnerable to the SFX of the BOECV attack. Inherent: Invulnerability can be bought Inherent. Indirect: Normally Inderect is irrelevant to Invulnerability, but can interact with Hulled Invulnerability. If an Indirect Attack is bought in such a way to circumvent a targets 'outer layer', or which indicate a particularly accurate form of attack which is 'guided' then as circumstances indicate Indirect of this sort will allow the circumvention of Hulled Invulnerability in the correct circumstances. Generally such an Indirect attack should get in at least one shot if circumstances allow before an Invulnerable character or the pilot of an Invulnerable vehicle can take steps to close or ward any breaches in thier Hull, but at the GMs discretion a suitable Indirect attack may continue to exploit this weakness by taking an appropriate penalty to thier attack roll ranging upwards from -2 OCV even if the Invulnerable character is attempting to protect the gaps in thier Hull. NND: NND has no effect vs. a character Invulnerable to the SFX of the NND attack. Invulnerable is not a 'Normal Defense' and thus is not circumvented by an NND attack if the SFX of the NND Attack is covered by the SFX of the Invulnerability. Invulnerability vs the specific SFX of an NND is not a valid 'exculsion clause' for an NND because Invulnerability already does not take damage from the attack in the first place. However, an NND could name general Invulnerability as part of an exclusion set indicating that a character with any sort of Invulnerability at all is unaffected by the NND even if the SFX of the NND would normally not be stopped by the Invulnerability. Penetrating: Penetrating has no effect vs. a character Invulnerable to the SFX of the Penetrating attack. However, Hulled Invulnerability may not stop Penetrating damage at the GMs discretion; however at worst a Hulled Invulnerability should not suffer more than half the Penetrating damage of such an attack. Personal Immunity: This Advantage may be taken on Invulnerability, although it is a limited use case. This would allow a character to affect themselves with a targeted beneficial effect if the SFX of the Invulnerability would normally prevent it. The primary use for this would be if a character had an Aid or Healing Power not bought Self Only which had a SFX covered by thier own Invulnerability. Usable On Others: This can be applied normally to Invulnerability. However, some duration and/or other means of ending the effect should be defined as normal for a 0 END Constant Power. Variable Advantage: As detailed in the Power Description, this Advantage can sometimes be used to circumvent specific Invulnerabilities. Variable Special Effects: At the GMs discretion, this Advantage may be allowed to represent an Invulnerability which can be 'fine tuned' to work against various SFX of equal Scope. However, this could be extremely powerful and should be considered a STOP sign ability. Ablative: This is not appropriate to Invulnerability; a better way to represent an "Ablative" Invulnerability is using either a Burnout Activation or Charges. Activation: Activation Rolls are appropriate to Invulnerability, particularly with either the Jammed or Burnout rules. Burnout particularly could be used to model an "Ablative" coating. Charges: In general, since Invulnerable is already a 0 END Constant power, Charges are inefficient. However, they can be taken with Invulnerable if desired, and is another method that can be used to represent an 'Ablative' coating or even a '9 Lives' effect. However, the Fuel option should not be allowed, or at least treated as a STOP sign power. Boostable Charges have no relevance to Invulnerability. Nonpersistant: This can be taken with Invulnerability, and can also be combined in many fashions with Concentration, Costs Endurance only to Activate, Increased Endurance, and/or Extra Time to represent a kind of Invulnerability that takes some effort to 'turn on', and when combined with Visible may indicate some kind of Armor Skin or a metamorphosis into some more durable form. FOCI: Foci work normally with Invulnerability unless the Weakness modifier is also taken on Invulnerability. A GM should carely examine an Invulnerability with both FOCI and Weakness to ensure that they are 2 seperate issues and not a 'double dip'. Typically a Focus will benefit from whatever Invulnerabilities it grants. Thus an Amulet of Fire Prevention which grants Invulnerability to Fire would itself be immune to fire damage. This is open to GM's interpretation however, particularly in the case of Fragile FOCI. Gradual Effect: This is not appropriate for Invulnerability. OIHID: This Limitation is appropriate to Invulnerable, but see Visible below and Nonpersistent above. Restrainable: This is not normally appropriate to Invulnerability; see Weakness instead. Visible: Much like Visible Armor, Visible Invulnerability takes the form of some outward indication that the target is particularly resistant to harm. The visual appearance should give a very strong clue of the appropriate types of damage the Invulnerable character is resistant to. Thus someone with a Visible Invulnerability to fire may have red skin and constantly flaming hair as a SFX. Someone with a Visible Invulnerable to Mental may have an effect apparent to anybody with Mental Awareness such as a specific aura or a constant mental static surrounding them. The net effect is anyone possessing a power of the SFX that the Invulnerable character is protected from should be able to 'guess' thier Invulnerability by making an Intelligence check, PER Roll, Power Skill check, or even automatically as the GM decides before deciding to attack them and even if they fail such a roll, it should be made clear to them after attacking that the Invulnerable character is completely unharmed by thier attack. Invulnerability Cost: 60 points for Invulnerability to a single tightly defined Special Effect approximately 15% prevelant to the game setting.

I used to impose a -1 penalty to all DEX rolls and Initiative for every 2 DEF from equipment based armor (ie, real equipment paid for in money not points) and applied no penalty for armor bought with character points (magic items or custom material). I didnt impose CV penalties however.

You might consider buying the FULL dice of effect and then applying Gradual Effect to it to get the over-time bit. Alternately, for the 'power up' effect, you might consider a stepped model where you buy the base dice of effect, then buy more dice of effect Extra Time (1 turn) then buy more dice of effect Extra Time (extra phase) and then buy more dice of effect Extra Time (Full Turn) and so on to the desired effect. Unless your GMs a real prick, he should let it aggregate so that the longer you hold the attack the more dice you get. I believe there is an example in FREd of a character that uses a power likes this, taking more and more END multiples IIRC.

Exactly. wider but not deeper. Although in this case its not literally 'every spell he knows', but a fair number of them all the same. The idea is to allow replication of the classic D&D/Vancian model of X # of spells / spell level, so that if you 'know' 1 or 50 1st level spells, on a given day you begin the day with any 4 of them (or the same spell multiple times). So in thier VPP, a Wizard would have a layering of small, medium and large powers theoretically. Of course, I dont have a real problem with a player taking advantage of the flexibility of HEROs and opting to focus on a smaller total number of thier larger spells (consuming the RC limit faster) or a large number of thier smaller spells (trading over all power for options).

Uh, no. The AP limit is unchanged; it doubles the Pool for Real Cost purposes. Thus if your pool was 45 and you bought 1 level of the adder your AP cap is still 45, but your RC limit is 90; i.e. you can have more smaller powers, but the AP limit is unchanged on any of those powers.

Hi all; I posted the question to Steve.I considered Steve's suggestion of a Talent and also considered just applying GM Fiat and producing a chart that specifies how many powers can be in the Pool. However, Ive settled on a different method for now using an Adder, as detailed at the bottom of the post.For some context, Im working on updating my old 2nd Edition AD&D to (4th ed) HERO System conversion (http://www.nestofthorns.com) to a 3e D&D to (5th ed) HERO System and Im completely reworking the magic system among other things to deal with the shift in 'Level to Experience Points' between AD&D and D&D 3e.The old conversion was based on a AD&D Level to HERO character points by CLASS, derived from a ration of AD&D Experience. Thus, since a 2nd ed AD&D Wizard had way more Experience points than an equal level Rogue for instance, it was doable to have a very expensive VPP overhead at the higher levels because in the conversion process such a character would have more points available to them.That applied to converted charcters of course.Characters created in the HERO System to play as part of a PC group had the same number of character points as everyone else but because of the disparity in AD&D Levels between classes it all worked out. If you took the same PC group and stated them out in both systems to create analogs, such a character would be of a lower level than other non-wizards in AD&D terms. This was done in AD&D because the classes werent inherently balanced against one another and the only real mitigating factor was that the weaker classes advanced faster. This all translated nicely into the HERO System, because the weaker classes were cheaper to stat than the stronger classes, and within the confines of a PC group where everyone is on the same general points base and within a few points of one another, all the PCs were more or less equally capable.In 3e of course all the classes are now on the same progression chart and theoretically balanced against one another. Thus a 20th level wizard with IIRC 4 9th level spells has as much XP as a 20th level Fighter and is theoretically equivalent. Converting that over to the HERO System is a little trickier because not all abilities are as economical to stat in HEROs. What Ive arrived at as a working model after wrestling around with it for a couple of weeks is start at 125 points (75 + 75) at "1st level", allow up to 25 extra points of Disadvantages to be taken at "1st level" and every 4 levels thereafter up to "16th level" if in a Package deal to help account for multiclassing (4th, 8th, 12th, 16th) and race packages (1st level)). Each D&D "level" is 15 or 20 character points in HEROs alternating even/odd.Thus D&DLevel HEROPoints OptionalPackage Disadvantage Points 1 125 +25 2 145 3 160 4 180 +25 5 195 6 215 7 230 8 250 +25 9 265 10 285 11 300 12 320 +25 13 335 14 355 15 370 16 390 +25 17 405 18 425 19 440 20 460 For spellcasting, Im doing VPPs with various Control Cost configurations to model the different spellcaster types. For wizards the control cost has a -1 applied to it currently between all of its disadvantages, which basically works out to every 20 points in the pool costs an additional 5 points for the control cost. To handle the 'Spell Levels of D&D', Im applying Active cost limits in 15 point increments. Thus, a "0 Level spell" is any power construct with a total Active cost of 15 or less, a "1st level spell" is any power construct with a total Active cost between 16 and 30, etc.So far this has worked out well, although there are a few D&D Spells which defy this model because they are far and away more powerful than thier level would indicate (which is a well known phenomenom), or deal in arbitrary/absolute effects which are immpossible to replicate in HEROs and/or cost quite a lot to manufacture a facimile of. For example, the 1st level Protection from [Alignment] spells are extremely powerful and have very arbitrary and absolute effects. Its immpossible to replicate all the functionality of those spells on 30 Active Points.I have done all of the 0 level, most of the 1st level, and a sampling of other level spells from 2 through 9 on this model as a proof of concept and so far it works, although some of the spells either have no predefined meaning in HEROs because they manipulate or interact with concepts specific to the D&D paradigm, and other spells which are distinct in D&D have little mechanical difference in HEROs; for example, many D&D spells end up being permutations of Telekinesis in the HERO System; a lot of the Conjuration spells are just variations of Summon in the HERO System; a lot of the Evocation spells are just permutations of RKA or EB; a lot of the Illusions Spells are variations of Images and Mental Illusions; a lot of the Transmutation spells are variations of Transform or Aid or Shape Change; etc. Overall, the model is working well enough for the Wizards on the points available. Because a Wizard gains a spell level every 2 caster levels in D&D, that works out to needing to buy the VPP up 15 pool (plus the control cost for 3 or 4 points depending on the rounding steps) every 35 character points in the HERO System to keep pace, which is just over half thier points. This is suitably expensive to be a limiting factor, and still allow enough points for character growth in other areas. On a 3 XP per session average, a Wizard can be expected to pick up a new 'spell level' every 12 sessions. Of course, there is nothing to stop a player from taking advantage of HEROs freeform character advancement and either pouring all thier points into thier VPP (in which case they will see a new "spell level" every 6 sessions but be otherwise very 1 dimensional) or opting to round out thier character more and advance thier VPP slower at thier discretion.It all seems to work out nicely except for 1 problem. Even applying heavy Limitations to spells to get the Real Cost as low as possible (around 3 pts for 0 level spells, 8 pts for 1st level spells, 12 points for 2nd level and so on), there is no way a wizard on this model can afford all of the spells alloted to them by the D&D spell progression chart because the Real Costs exceed the Active Point Limit of the VPP. If they increase the VPP to fit in more spells they also are capable of casting spells with a higher AP limit, which is synonymous in this context to casting higher level spells. At no point does the Wizard ever get ahead of it under the current model of the VPP. To solve this, Im thinking about creating an Adder to the control cost which is basically for every 5 points the RC limit on the VPP is doubled. Since its on the Control Cost, any modifiers will make this cost more or less, a Cosmic Pool would pay 15 points for every doubling while a OIF Only Change in a Lab Gadget Pool would pay IIRC 2.5 for every doubling.

Inherent Duplication with the Physical Limitation '1 Body, 2 Minds' or some strange Limitation on the Duplication itself; Mind Only (-1 to 1 1/2 or so)

Ablative Intelligence?

Some less im-so-cool names: Spanky Whipping Boy Bongo Trampoline Rockem-Sockem (hehe, with Duplication perhaps) Damage Sponge Painfeeder and my favorite: Uncle Smacky

Reverb Recoil Arbitage Feedback Oversurge

Im confused. (b4 anyone posts to clue me in; Im kidding)

Keep em coming please; also, please attach the Hero Designer files/packages. Thanx!

Thanx. Any thoughts on whether bumping to 1000 is a good idea? One of my players was of the opinion that the 'Sorceror Supreme' equivalent shouldnt need help to deal with tier-2 threats and should be at least as powerful as Gravitar. He went into some detailed breakdowns of the sorts of things Dr Strange routinely dealt with and I was forced to agree that some them would probably point out higher than this version of this character could deal with if I brought an analog into the HERO System. Besides, I must admit I had some fun making this character, and expanding him further would be interesting. Your opinions fellow posters?

When using Shape Shift vs Mental Group, what game effect does this have. For example, if a character has an ability similar to: 22 Mystic Mind: (Total: 41 Active Cost, 22 Real Cost) Mind of 1000 Incarnations: Shapeshift (Mental Group; Imitation, Variety of Shapes (any Human Mind): Limited Group of Shapes), Costs END Only To Change Shape (+1/4) (31 Active Points); Requires A EGO Roll (-1/2), Extra Time, Only to Activate Constant or Persistent Power (Full Phase; -1/4), Delayed Phase (-1/4), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4) (Real Cost: 14) plus +10 Mental Defense (15 points total) (10 Active Points); Nonpersistent (-1/4) (Real Cost: 8) What are the mechanical benefits thereof? Would this fool someone using Telepathy, presenting false thoughts/memories? Will it fool a Mind Scan--ie if someone is looking for the character will they not find him if he is using Shape Shift to 'appear' as a different mind, and if he were Imitating someone elses mind, might a Mind Scanner looking for the copied person find this character instead? If Imitating the mind of another character, would this character pick up any Psychological Disadvantages that person has while imitating them? Off hand, are there any other permutations where this might have a game effect? Thanx.....

GRRRRRRRR. My fiance has me running around cleaning up the place in preperation for entertaining this evening so I probably wont be able to get my Magic System posted tonight as planned BUT It will be sometime soon, come hell or high house chores!

Hehe. Well, yes, that was sort of the point. Of the 3 villains the party initially encountered (Wu, a martial artist; Thunderbolt II with slight mods to his Movement; Wulfen) he was both the villain with the most points, and the most lethal by far in both categories. His role in the encounter was to 1) hold up the PCs while the other to escaped with some stolen Bio-Chemicals and 2) scare the crap out of them. Each of the PCs involved had at least one way to counter or deal with him, and he could only threaten them if he got the drop on one of them or if they played it stupid. I also knew that between Rook and another PC Chitin, Wulfen could be neutralized. The other 2 villains were at the same point level or slightly above, but thier purpose was to not sustain combat, but to evade at all costs which they did. Wulfen was basically the primary opponent and needed to be frightening enough to get the parties attention (you cant ignore someone with that high of an OCV and that big of an attack). He did this admirably, tying up Rook and John Wrath long enough for the other 2 to make distance despite Chitin doing his best to out pace and stop them. In the longer term, Wulfen serves a story/plot purpose. I want to establish him as a villain that is frightening and dangerous even when alone, but which can be defeated. All in all Ive been very happy with him so far. He's basically a Sabretooth type character. When he shows up everyone is like.....uh Wolvie, take care of your Hunted please....we'll be WAY over here.

Hi Steve; Im just on a roll tonight working madly away on a pet project. Sorry for the hassle OK, if I took Personaly Immunity as a Naked Power Advantage up to some tolerably high AP limit like 90, and then applied Usable by Others to that NPA, and then lent it out to 1 or more others, would the Personal Immunity apply to 1 of my powers as determined by me when I lent the NPA out, or instead would that apply to any one of the recipients powers up to the AP limit as determined by them? If the NPA limited to a specific power which it protects from and is only being bought as an NPA so that ut can be lent out via UBO, is that worth a Limitation on the NPA such as a Linking or is that to open to powermongering abuse? Thanx....no more questions for tonight, I promise

Hi Steve, Q Is it be legal to define an Explosion for +1/4 that only explosed in a half circle rather than in a radius? Basically like taking a -1 lim on the advantage itself, or would you have to apply the full +1/2 Explosion and then take a seperate limitation 'Explosion only in Half Circle'? Q If you apply Explosion to a Contant Power, would it continue to Explode each and every Phase until it terminated? Q If you buy Explosion for your Strength as a Naked Power Advantage for mega-powered punches, do you need to take Personal Immunity to avoid the backlash? Q If you had a 0 END Continuous AoE Line power (Wall of Fire basically), and you wanted it to emanate Heat/Flame in one direction outward, could you apply Explosion, only in one direction? And if so, is that really a Limitation or is it +/-0 (since its a decidedly good thing if you happen to be on the non-Exploding side of it which presumably the user of the power generally would be). Thanx!

Help me Obi Wan Long-nobi; you're my only hope! This isnt a rules question per se, since I know that this is not covered in the rule directly, so mea culpa and apologies for abusing this forum. However, I wanted to make sure you saw this and hope that you'll see fit to give it some thought and tender your valued expert opinion. While working on a Magic VPP I run into a problem dealing with the breadth of a VPP as opposed to its depth. In other words, if a VPP has 60 pool, I can get the spells appropriate to that power level in at or below that limit Active Points wise, but the sum of the Real Costs of those spells exceed the pool. I can fit too few spells into the VPP in other words. Conceptually, by default a VPP is a square model; as the width increases so does the height. I was thinking that if there were options to adjust this behavior of a VPP to allow a more rectangular model it would open up a lot of different concepts. In pursuit of that, since limitations cannot be applied directly to the VPP pool, I was wondering how one might buy VPP Pool that is only for calculating the sum of the Real Costs in the VPP and not relevant to the Active Point limit of the powers in the VPP. So for example, if I had a 60 pool VPP and I wanted +20 pool ONLY FOR CALCULATING SUM OF THE REAL COSTS ALLOWED IN THE POOL AT ONCE (-1), Q: Is there a legal/official way to do this such as partially limiting part of the Control Cost? If yes, what is this method? If no, might some option be added in Fantasy HERO or the FAQ or is this an area of non-coverage requiring GM fiat? Thanx a lot, and I hope I didnt try your patience unduly. Happy Easter......

Yamo nailed it. Combination RSR: EGO roll and Side Effects. The default version of Side Effects assumes there is a RSR or Activation involved and that the SE goes off if the roll is failed. If this is not true (ie, the SE always goes off), the SE Lim is doubled.

Grunt. Ok, good catch....will amend.....