Grailknight

As unclevlad states, by RAW, it can be placed into a VPP or Multipower as Multiform is a Standard Power. The real question is, "Should it be?"

As a GM, I say no. It's just too open to abusive builds. The only limit the rules place is that any Multiform bought this way shouldn't have a VPP or Multipower in any of the forms as those can't be nested. But that's a very strict and probably controversial interpretation of RAW.

I just move Multiform back into Special Powers but I've been in a discussion that argued it should be a variant of VPP. 

The Mental Paralysis doesn't stop you from using your Powers against the Entangle but you can't attack anything else without breaking through the Entangle to reach it.

This sounds more like a Cumulative Mind Control than a Transformation though.

10 hours ago, Cygnia said:

Gods for each state

50 states and only one female deity, I think I can sense a little bias in the program parameters.

2 hours ago, Logan D. Hurricanes said:

2 hours ago, Logan D. Hurricanes said:

You are going to hell. Oh, wait, you live in Florida. Never mind.

It'll actually cost more than that down the line. A 25-game suspension means that he'll be ineligible for any of the postseason awards. If he had made an All-NBA team he would have gotten an extra 39 million on his contract.

Pick him up and look for trades at spots where you're weak.

Remember that the OP wants to simulate a popular Shonen anime. Low powered supers are the floor here. Most of the characters can be well rounded versions of themselves at 250-300 points but if they all want to be close to the main characters then they will need more. He could start them at 200 and then give experience at a higher rate than is normal in Hero also. 

400 points is high for a non-super campaign. That said, it depends on the power level you want to run at.

At 8-9 DC's and 3-4 SPD, you can simulate the manga/anime pretty well at 250-300 points. Every PC will be weaker than Luffy (thank God) but they'll be as good or better than the sidekicks. If you want everyone to be at Luffy's level, then go ahead and start at 400. The key thing to remember is that every PC should be able to be the star on a rotating basis, not one star with the featured sidekick of the week.

Most definitely not.

22 minutes ago, Trencher said:

Thats probably a programmer that have made his own AI. A customer cant write in his own A.I porn pictures so porn is safe. Meaning the only commission type that are not under threat from AI is porn.

It may be true that these are private AI programs, but the volume is pretty high. The first AI-generated gallery was posted in July of last year, but there have been 2100+ galleries posted since. Some of them have upwards of 1500 pictures included ranging from pure porn to risqué erotica to everyday life. While the site's name is e-hentai, it does host a sizable collection of non-pornographic art. And some of the galleries that are mostly erotica get classified as hentai because it only takes one hentai picture (even among hundreds of safe art) to earn that classification (as it should be).

17 hours ago, Trencher said:

So these pictures are worth nothing and was only created by things stolen from other artists. 

 

But in a world where people rather fly with junk heaps planes barley hanging together instead of more expensive and comfortable planes just to save money this souless art has two  advantages. Its cheap and quick. 

 

And I fear that this will make people not buy commissions as often as they do now. 

 

Another bad note is that the AI dont let you create sexy pictures (I heard.. Ahem..) this means the only commision artist that will not be run broke by access to endless amount of cheap crap AI pictures are the ones that draw porn! 

 

World has gotten worse. AI can off course be used to something good but people have only used it to cut into peoples occupations livelihood so far. 

AI definitely lets you generate sexy pictures. Go to e-hentai.org and use AI-generated as a search criterion. Definitely NSFW!

Wet tracks are one of the things that make F1 the top tier racing circuit. They just change tires and keep going unless it's a deluge.

11 hours ago, tkdguy said:

 

Knowing players, they probably killed the HOA folks as well.

Knowing HOA's, it was the ultimate Chaotic Good act.

6 hours ago, Cancer said:

Hm.  I wonder if should put DON'T PANIC at the top of my astronomy final exam and see if any of the kids get the reference. 

 

Maybe add a question.  ("A: What number should be associated with the exhortation at the top of the exam?  B: Would you be happy or dismayed to receive that number as a score on this exam?  C) Did you bring your towel?")

 

Hmmm.   Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

The name of my freshman physics textbook at TAMU was Don't Panic. The teacher wrote it and said he tried to make it relatable to everyday things.

32 minutes ago, Hugh Neilson said:

 

I'm not suggesting HKA should cost more, I am suggesting that having a high STR should not grant a discount. If you buy a 60 STR and no HKA, you don't get any HKA dice.  If you leave STR at 10 and spend 50 on HKA, you get 4d6 HKA and a 10 STR.  If you instead spend 20 on STR and 30 on HKA, you get the same 4d6 HKA and the added benefits of a 30 STR instead of a 10 STR. How many characters from 2e to 5e did you see achieve a 4d6 HKA any other way?

 

 

If they want 0, they can sell back any or all characteristics. It's not free - you chose to keep 1Str0 STR rather than sell it back. There's the gamer mindset that a +1 bonus is meh but a -1 penalty is the end of the world, but that's the only impediment to a Blaster with 5 STR and +1d6 Blast.

 

 

STR is not HKA either. That's the point. The argument for STR adding to HKA has always been "but logically higher STR should make the sword strike/claws/radioactive fingernails hit harder".  True.  And logically being super-stretchy should protect you from blunt attacks, being resistant to radiation should defend against radiation attacks and being immune to extreme heat and cold should protect you from attacks based on extremes of heat or cold.

 

But only in the case of STR adding to HKA do we acquiesce and say "OK, you can have extra HKA for free since you bought STR just like the Brick with no HKA did". For all the other "but logically" arguments, we answer that "logically, your chartacter should pay the character points and buy those defenses".

STR does add to HKA and HA. That's a legacy thing from 1st through 6th Edition. I haven't seen anything better and since I use doubling and proration for both, I don't encounter any real issues in my mostly Supers games. They're three different powers but even though STR adds to HA and HKA just buying extra HA Or HKA will not let you lift more.

And it needs to be that way not for the sake of Supers but all the other genres Hero is good at.  Can you imagine if HKA and HA were separated from STR in a Fantasy setting? Kilmore the 25 STR  barbarian should do more damage than Meeka the 8 STR mage with a sword neither has any skill with.

You have to bow to logic here and implement it into your system in a way that doesn't kill game balance.  Hero does that pretty well by keeping the cost of a DC consistent across STR, HA and HKA. The only unfairness is that the free 10 STR benefits some concepts better than others. It could just as easily be fixed by giving the first 2 DC equivalents to any other power but that really makes Character Generation bookkeeping complicated.

On 5/20/2023 at 6:19 PM, Cloppy Clip said:

I like your note about using cumulative in this situation, but the business with breakout rolls is something I'd overlooked, and that I have just been brushing up on. For this particular power, it might work out better to drop the voice range area of effect and make it a normal single-target power. Then, with the Clever Repartee power from APG2 (effectively a Drain PRE), you could get back to the usual Talent Social Combat system, where the user would want to reduce their opponent's PRE over time and then hit them with the Mental Illusions when they're vulnerable. That would probably make for more engaging gameplay, too, as there's the question of how much PRE to drain before going for the big finisher.

 

That said, if breakout rolls are normal EGO rolls, only modified by how much you beat the effect roll, is it just me or is it going to be quite difficult to build low-AP mental powers? For a low-powered campaign focused around them like this one, that's something that needs keeping an eye on.

Yes, to both. Mental Powers just don't function well in a low powered campaign. Cumulative helps and paired with Damage over Time will get you what you're describing but this combination is dangerously OP and easily abused so GM moderation is mandatory.

The drain will lower breakout rolls and that helps but all the time spent draining is time your opposition may be expressing their opinion of your actions in ... forceful terms. 

4 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

 

That's game logic.  "You don't automatically get more effect from one ability because you bought a different ability" is solid game logic.  It would suggest more HKA costs more points.

 

The same logic that suggests a stronger swordsman would do more damage with his sword also suggests that a person immune to the effects of high heat would be more resistant to an attack relying on high heat to inflict damage.  Of course, those 2 points for resistance to heat would provide no defense against cold, electricity, etc. so it's not unlimited.

Why would that suggest that HKA should cost more? In the case of both HKA and HA, you buy your dice and that's what you get. The variable is the amount of STR the character has. If you approach it as an issue with STR, then proration and the doubling rule make more sense, at least IMO and IME.

If it really bothers you that much, then start all PC's and NPC's with 0 STR. That creates different problems, but now no one gets any free DC's of damage of any kind. Take it a step further and start all Characteristics at 0. It's equality for everyone but it won't make the game simpler and good luck with your baselines.

On the subject of Life Support, I can't understand your position at all. There has to be a cost to LS and it shouldn't be large because it just doesn't get used as much in game. No, that 2-point Extreme Heat doesn't stop a Fire Blast, but it does offer 100% immunity to any AVLD vs Extreme Heat. That's true of any LS that counters a specific SFX built with all or nothing. Look at what the Power gives for the cost and determine if that's enough. LS is not PD/ED/DEF and shouldn't overlap with them. You can have 100 ED and still die of sunstroke or exposure. It's not ED's function in the RAW.

Ok, that means it works for an instant but then they get their breakout rolls and you don't have much if any extra effect. That means even an 8 EGO target breaks out 50% of the time. Sounds like a good way to anger a room.

I would have to make the Psionic surgery into a Severe Transformation. Also 6d6 is a large number for something taking place in out of combat time. Go with a lower number and more rolls. Transform is cumulative.

I'm not familiar with the enough with the APG, but 4d6 doesn't usually achieve +10 on anyone. To get to the average against even a Normal requires 5d6 with the round-up. How does the Guaranteed Modifier affect this? Again, using Cumulative would let you get this result in slightly more time with fewer dice. Both Powers would have lower active costs also.

For curiosity, why isn't the added STR prorated to prevent Advantage abuse also?

If you use doubling and proration, almost all of the abuses are trivialized.

19 hours ago, Cloppy Clip said:

So there was indeed a good game-balance reason I'd missed! Yes, I hadn't thought about draining REC, but that would definitely do it. So, in that case, would this Destruction effect be completely replaced by a Delayed Return Rate Drain, for the purposes of a 6E game?

Yes, but to get the identical return rate costs more.

Drain STUN 1d6, Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Month; +2 3/4) (37 Active Points)

If you make it 5 per week, then it costs 35 Active.

At least this one is easy to repair, just scrape off the Ice cream and eat both normally.

1 hour ago, Hugh Neilson said:

 

HKA is the true outlier. No other attack power is increased by another ability. If we ditched HKA and simply had Killing Attack (same price and model as current RKA), you could buy an RKA with no Range.  Want to do more damage because you are strong? Slap some extra No Range KA dice on with Unified Power to STR, or Locking out the use of the same AP of STR for damage.

I both agree and disagree with this.  Yes, HKA was the only Power with a write-up that added to another Power. But no, since HA has been present since First Edition in the form of improvised and blunt weapons. It just wasn't codified in the rules until the BBB. 

That's more how HERO has traditionally worked. We're on the 6th Edition and I can only recall one thing that's been taken out over the years and that's COM. I do recall a tiny little crapstorm flamewar over that.🙂

1 hour ago, Hugh Neilson said:

 

**but but but** swords would be more complicated.  Maybe in build.  Not in play. You don't buy swords with points in fantasy games anyway.

You don't buy clubs or staffs with points either. But the early builds used 5 points per DC.  HKA was the RAW at the time for Killing Damage so that's what was used.

1 hour ago, Hugh Neilson said:

 

 

HA has always been tough to reconcile with MA damage classes. 4 points for 1d6 that only does damage (no Grabs, Escapes, etc.) that costs END doesn't seem like a great bargain.  But at least some of that is underpricing MA DCs.

 

So the player whose SFX are punching really hard, but not lifting a bus, should pay the same as a player whose SFX is being really strong and getting lifting, escape, grab & hold, etc.?  That's concept penalization. To me, "build any character you can imagine" comes with an implicit "who will be reasonably competitive with characters other players imagine".

HA is fine even at 5 points per DC. It's not a common Power and, in genre, it will almost always have Limitations that are not common to the user's STR. You could just as easily make that hard puncher as a martial artist with a unique style. 

The fixation on perfect points balance is admirable in some ways but ultimately pointless. Plain STR isn't even the cheapest way to buy STR, Density Increase is. HA at 5 points per DC will still see more use than Growth in the current ruleset and it's definitely not as iconic a power.

They are but Figured Characteristics (mainly STR) gave such an edge to Tanks and Martial Artists that something was necessary to keep ranged characters competitive. The Multipower was the best solution to that.

Just saw GOTG3 and came out very pleased with it. 

Loved the development given to each character especially Rocket.

Loved the music choices.

Cosmo is a very, very good dog.